Whooshy Whooshy, anyone?

[drvince]

Hmmm... I just did the following :

- I disconnected the output pipe (bottom) of my Forge DV007P from the hose.
- Sealed that (air-intake/MAF) hose with a cork and a clip

So now my 007 is actually operating in fully atmospheric mode.

NO fault codes or engine lights yet ?!? (I have the AUQ engine btw.)
(don't even care, because I have VAG-Com to reset them if needed).

And it gives a truly awesome woosh-sound !! (More a 'POOOOOF')
Car performs normally.

It's easy to change te setup once in a while, by simply reconnecting the 007
to the hose. Or I could even make a T-piece with a tap in it (!), to change between
atmospheric and recirc "mode" ...

So guess I won't even need my Split-R. (anyone interested ??)

Today I am going to route a hose from the 007 output to the grille,
and experiment a little with some different sized caps at it's output, to get the nicest sound )

So it DOES appear to BE possible to have a fully atmospheric blow off valve on a 20VT ...

Anyway , What's the worst that could happen ?
Some fault codes, or maybe a slightly little lower petrol mileage ?

 

[turbin]

Dont do it man, and thats the best advice ull get all year long. Keep it in full resirq and remap it. Buy a cone filter for ure 007p and it sounds smashing. This engine is not designed to operate with a DV, so we should not do what its not designed to do, or what?

 

[drvince]

Dont do it man, and thats the best advice ull get all year long. Keep it in full resirq and remap it. Buy a cone filter for ure 007p and it sounds smashing. This engine is not designed to operate with a DV, so we should not do what its not designed to do, or what?

I know , but what could happen ?!
Can't blow your engine/turbo, or whatever.

It just works and sounds great

 

[turbin]

well as Ive heard from those that have tried this its ok for a while until you get a fault code, and you will get a fault code. Im sure someone else here have more info on that one...

I just dont understand why you wanna do that, bcs you loose hp that way. Your car will be SLOWER. Its not a mod, its sabotage.

 

[drvince]

If I get a fault code I will reset it.

Love the sound, it's awesome !

Why would it loose hp ??
It's simply air being dumped

 

[turbin]

It will loose hp bcs the air that you now want to ventilate into atmosphere is supposed to be resirqulated back into the system. The lost resirqulated air need to be replaced with new air from outside the airfilter. Ie. the turbin impeller will have less air to spool up so it will be slower to react and the compressor has less air to feed ure engine under initial acceleration= less hp under acceleration.

I ran with a Split R valve in hybrid mode and noticed 1 psi higher boost all along the acceleration rev range after switching to full resirq.

 

[drvince]

I emailed Forge :

"Hi , Just wondering : Couldn't the DV007P be used as a BOV (full atmos), when I simply
leave the output pipe open (not connected to airhose) ?? I guess this should work, not? And
Yes : I am aware of the fault-code/engine light issues. But it couldn't physically damage the
car, or could it ?

Reply from Forge :

" Yes it will physically work. It wont damage the car, but some ECU’s will drop the car into a
‘limp home mode’ because it wont see the air you are now venting to atmosphere. "

Regards
Peter Miles

So I guess I have the forgiving ECU type then?

Everyone who's desperate for a REAL 'woosh', just try it once.
You'll be amazed.

But be advised that you will need to be able to reset fault codes
if they should occur. In my car they didn't.

 

[turbin]

tell you what:


go drive the car in full atmosphere dump and then in full resirqulation


then post ure impression here.

 

[drvince]

tell you what:


go drive the car in full atmosphere dump and then in full resirqulation


then post ure impression here.

I don't get you ?

Drove my car with DV007P in full recirc, for 4 years now.

4 years long I have been told it's not possible on our cars...
And been scared off (on this very forum) for engine lights and fault codes ...

Now I thought : what the heck, let's just give it a try ...
I simply disconnected the DV output from the hose and I'm amazed !!

Wish I did that 4 years earlier ...
I have an ear shattering Woosh now ! Finally
And it runs like hell

 

[turbin]

and..... ?

You dont notice the difference?

If its remapped there should be a pretty significant difference....

 

[drvince]

and..... ?

You dont notice the difference?

If its remapped there should be a pretty significant difference....

No difference,

What's a remap ?? Like Chiptuning ?

 

[Muttley]

Max_torque explains it best here...........

".............(and concentrate, here comes the science bit!)

A modern engine management system, ie the Bosch Me unit fitted to 1.8T's has "adaptive" learning on the fuel, ignition and airflow side.

Because Me is a Torque based structure it's calculation of engine torque verses driver demand is critical to the driveability of the car and it's performance / durability.

When you fit a "leak" in the intake system (open circuit valve) the original calibration of the MAF sensor to manifold and cylinder filling modeling will not corespond. However due to the 20% allowance in the long term adaptive values the ECU will relearn you engine and "leak"

At idle the inlet model calculated airflow will exceed the MAF meters measured output, and depending on the state of your particular components - ie MAF ageing / contamination, throttle plate leakage, Fuel tank purge vapour concentration this may, or may not push the adaptive to it's 20% limit. If it hits the limit the ME unit will run in FMEM mode (Failure mode and effects management) causing reduced system efficiency. The Me unit will use the switching signal from the lambda sensor to return fuelling to lambda 1, storing the correction as a map agaisnt airflow. and add this correction to the fueling calc when operating at non closed loop conditions, ie WOT, fuel injector reenstatment (after overrun shut off, traction control intervention etc.) Now depending on how you drive and how sensative you are this may or may not be felt by the driver during certain manovevers. The throttle plate position will also learn the new airflow to maintain control of idle speed, but you may notice poor engine load rejection, ie turn on the aircon and the engine speed varries etc. or engine speed flares on starts or when operating PAS when parking.

However in all cases this will result in "incorrect" fueling. Now by "incorrect" i mean, not as the manufacturer intended. A post MAF leak will cause rich operation initially, but the adaptives will pull fuel out and become negative. This tends to cause a rich to lean spike on tip outs and other throttle transient. Now it is extremely diffucult for an untrained observer to spot these effects as they occur mainly on throttle transients, when the average drive may not notice. Therefore you could say "why do i care?". Well, any AFR excursion from the intended fuelling set by the manufacturer will result in non-standard engine operation. because of the adaptives this is unlikely to cause immediate engine problems, but over the course of time will change things like catalyst ageing, exhaust and turbo charger valve durability etc. Manufactures spend millions accruing miles on development fleets so hopefully the customers don't get landed with big bills as time goes on, and with most modern cars life'd at 150k miles (min design life) this is a big task.
It is unlikely that this will result in any performance loss, as at WOT the system is open loop, but you may see the result of an open circuit valve oas over fueling on gear changes etc. (a tell tail puff of black smoke is what you can see, a 1200 degC Catalyst is what you can't see, as excess fuel when injection reenstates and excess air from overrun shut off period combine in cat)

Now as you can see this is a seriously complicated subject and i haven't even mentioned the dreaded EOBD or OBDII words yet. Typically Bosch Me units have approximately 9000 calibratable parameters (constants, maps etc) and an engine calibration program will take a team of 8 calibration engineers 18 months to do the basic mapping and OBD validation. These days it's no problem to do the basic fuel and spark mapping, maybe 4 weeks on a midlimit engine on a dyno, but the diagnostics and emmisions devs takes years.

Moral or the story, before you start playing with something you don't understand, find someone who does!(And not just thinks they do!)

(for anyone thinking, "hey what makes me such an "expert" on this subject?" then i'd better mention the last 10 years i've spent as a senior calibration engineer at Cosworth and Prodrive!)

(sorry , another monster post!)

 

[caveo]

Or see here http://seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49122

 

[LEE69]

So I guess I have the forgiving ECU type then?

Everyone who's desperate for a REAL 'woosh', just try it once.
You'll be amazed.

But be advised that you will need to be able to reset fault codes
if they should occur. In my car they didn't.

Had my GFB 50/50 on for a long time now with no error codes at all.

Some want a dump valve noise, some don't.

 

[markgb]

I want the Woosh noise, got a turbo I want to hear god damn it!

 

[Cupra Kev]

I get enough turbo whistle and dump-valve noise from my Pipercross induction kit and DV30 which is a full recirc - had the full atmos DV on my RS Turbo and prefer the more "understated" looks and noise of the LC

 

[turbin]

Had my GFB 50/50 on for a long time now with no error codes at all.

Some want a dump valve noise, some don't.

He is talking about 100% dump. NO resirq.

 

[LEE69]

He is talking about 100% dump. NO resirq.

Is he?

Sorry.

Now that is bad.

 

[drvince]

Well, it works great :
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=ikCXJsI8vzQ
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=tStdMKOJqyc

 

[Cammage]

I've gone and done the same on my leon and its fine, no errors (vagcom'd). I have a forge 007p full re-circ running on fully atmosperic and it dumps realy loud, turns loads of heads. AUQ engine code.