Brand realignment

R3k1355

Active Member
Oct 30, 2014
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Yorkshire
According to a recent news article VAG are considering changing the positioning of the Seat and Skoda brands.

The Skoda brand will move into a cheaper price bracket, to target buyers in Eastern Europe and compete against brands like Kia and Dacia.
The Seat brand will move into a more expensive price bracket, to compete with brands like Alfa Romeo (I assume that will put them price-wise between VW and Audi).
 
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Pferdestarke

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Jun 9, 2019
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SEAT can’t just increase price beyond VW without first improving quality. And I don’t think Skoda poses a threat to SEAT, however SEAT does to VW and Audi.

Anyway, I’d better read the article.


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The Daily Meme

Insta: @thatredcupra
Jan 3, 2018
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Since the Mk3 leon came out and the equivalent Ibiza i think Seat has been a better car in most ways compared to VW

Audi still remains the more premium of the 4 because they are expensive. People like to be seen driving them, the same with VW. They are like the iPhones of the car market. People buy them because they think other people think they are cool. I remember back in 2011 i thought the golf was cool. But again, since the mk3 leon. I'd have a leon over a golf any day.

I also like how audi seem to lead the way with tech, they were one of the first to have LED lights on their cars, they started the dynamic indicators, the dynamic chassis and all that other gucci kit which now comes as standard on a lot of VAG cars. BMW have only in the last couple of years started replacing their head and tail lights with LEDs. and BMW interiors are only just catching up with the likes of premium audi and Mercedes cars.

When people ask, if you could have any car on the market right now, I'd either get an RS3. But since I can't afford one, a Cupra has all the kit a high spec S3 has at a much better price. And still out does any golf i've seen on looks.

The amount of times people have said, "ew, why do you drive a SEAT" and then I put my foot down and they realise I got a nicer looking golf for a lot less and with better performance.

Ex girlfriend had a golf, by the end of the relationship she was jealous of my leon. more power, better looking and cheaper.

:seatgod:
 
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R3k1355

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Oct 30, 2014
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I just don't feel that the general public aspire to own a Seat like they would a Audi/BMW/Merc so I'm not sure pumping the price up is a good move.

Especially if you're looking to target Alfa's market segment, mostly nutters.
 

The Daily Meme

Insta: @thatredcupra
Jan 3, 2018
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I just don't feel that the general public aspire to own a Seat like they would a Audi/BMW/Merc so I'm not sure pumping the price up is a good move.

Especially if you're looking to target Alfa's market segment, mostly nutters.
They can’t put the price up without offering something return.
And I don’t mean doing what they do with Audi’s by charging above Cupra prices for an S3 and then expecting you to pay for every single optional extra to get it to the same spec as a Cupra Lux
 

perelaar

Active Member
Jan 18, 2019
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Sugartown Belgium
Original article (in German, and behind a login, but intro is free): https://www.automobilwoche.de/article/20190929/BCONLINE/190929933/vw-scharft-seine-marken

Indeed: idea would be for Seat to make "more emotional" cars; not sure Mr Jost actually said anything about price increases or if it is free interpretation by the journalist. I'll try to get the full article tomorrow.

More important: platform for electric cars to be shared among the entire VAG group, and fuel cells are on the way.
 

R3k1355

Active Member
Oct 30, 2014
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Indeed: idea would be for Seat to make "more emotional" cars; not sure Mr Jost actually said anything about price increases or if it is free interpretation by the journalist. .

I think it was inferred due to the comparison with Alfa Romeo, and the current market position being cheaper than VW.

Unless of course emotional just means 'breaks down all the time like an Alfa' which I'm sure you could easily deliver at the current price point.
 

mdaw1985

Active Member
Aug 3, 2008
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St.Leonards, East Sussex
I’d have thought the interior quality although good in our Leon's would need to at least match the golf if that was the case. Currently from what I can see just looking at the golf from the outside it looks like it has slightly more soft touch plastics etc. Like on the rear doors and more of the dashboard. My exeo had a slightly better overall quality than my Leon and that was based on a car (2005 A4) 14 years ago.
 

RUM4MO

Active Member
Jun 4, 2008
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I’d have thought the interior quality although good in our Leon's would need to at least match the golf if that was the case. Currently from what I can see just looking at the golf from the outside it looks like it has slightly more soft touch plastics etc. Like on the rear doors and more of the dashboard. My exeo had a slightly better overall quality than my Leon and that was based on a car (2005 A4) 14 years ago.

Now that you have mentioned Exeo, being an older Audi A4 design and so better quality because of that, I bought a 2000 B5 VW Passat 4Motion brand new and was very impressed by its general quality of fittings and finish so thought that VW was a high quality brand - wrong, alter I worked out that that VW Passat was a good car due to it being made up of older Audi B5 A4 parts and some S6 parts! That awakening came when my wife thought that she would her next car to be a VW Polo, so that was what was bought to replace her trusty Ford Fiesta 1.6i with the Zetec engine in it, by the time that car was almost 5 years old, it had worked its way through far too much money and they reason was, in my mind, that it was based on the Skoda Fabia, and so most of the running gear was manufactured in Skoda factories or Skoda CZ based supplier's factories - an absolute dog of a car to work on and it needed working on lots of times to rid it of the crappy CZ made original parts. Unfortunately her next car is a 2015 VW Polo, it still has some Skoda or CZ built parts which include the engine!!
 

Philip Santi

Active Member
Sep 28, 2019
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I've just read a similar article in Autocar where it talks about rebranding the whole of Seat as Cupra. Reading through the comments, I agree with most of one of the posts; It's not the first time VAG have mooted this.

Last time I heard similar the plan was something like this:

Audi = Executive/Premium brand
VW = Quality/Family brand
Seat = Sportier brand
Skoda = Entry/budget brand

But my own thoughts about this are, that with the advent of common platforms across the group, the differences have become so small in the cost of the main components that;

Skoda have made a great product but they're no longer the bargain they were - they have a strong following who are loyal to the brand, so if someone want's to progress to a sportier model, they invariably go for a vRS and stay with the brand if they want quality/family cars because they're slightly cheaper and generally bigger than VW
Seat's position as the 'Sportier' brand has suffered with the introduction and popularity of the various Golf hot hatches (Performance versions of the GTi, the R etc) - headline figures 'push' some buyers towards VW
VW is still the 'staple' brand and with it getting the most powerful engines before Seat, eats into Seat's position in the group
Audi is still the premium brand but also will take those looking for the more expensive end of the Hot Hatch/Sports market (S3, RS3, S4, etc)

The Cupra Ateca is a good start re-claiming the Sportier niche - why the Leon R and R ST were not branded at Cupra with the ABT packs as an option on all 3 models, I have no idea?

Anyway, there's my two'penneth :cheeky:
 

RUM4MO

Active Member
Jun 4, 2008
7,784
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South Scotland
I think that newer SEAT models will, at certain levels become Cupra "brand". VW with their R-Line kind of annoyed me when I was looking for a new Polo for my wife back in April 2015 " the new model is a lot more R than R-Line" - well that was complete tosh so luckily I gave it a miss and got her an SEL.

Audi and SEAT/Cupra are aligned as far as marketing and product management are concerned, likewise VW and Skoda are aligned as far as marketing and product management are concerned.

What makes me smile a bit is Skoda owners believing that Skoda is holding up VW Group and feeding all its good ideas into VW for them to profit from, Skoda needed rescuing in the same way that SEAT needed rescuing - and SEAT was the last car manufacturer to stop using single locking systems on doors, ie no secondary locks, so something/someone needed to protect motorists from that way of designing cars!
 

'& Son' managed

Third Party
Mar 2, 2018
269
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South Coast
All rather amusing considering that VAG stated that SEAT was to become their equivalent
of Alfa Romeo when they first bought them donkeys years ago.

- Then almost totally failed in doing that by not making them as 'good' as a VW, nor allowing
for extra flair in the designs until recent years and always lumbering them with most un-Alfa
type cars like the Alhambra.
Although SEAT have been improving, they are probably still some way off from offering what
an Alfa promises, (if sometimes not quite delivering.)

Many have commentated over the years that VW didn't really know what to do with SEAT
and now it seems to have come full circle.
Seeing as SEAT's sales have proven strong in recent years and they have delivered the
profits to go with it, you might think they should carrying-on much as they have been.
 

perelaar

Active Member
Jan 18, 2019
86
40
Sugartown Belgium
For what it's worth: final choice for replacing our Leon ST FR came down to Alfa Giulia Veloce or the Cupra Ateca. Cupra won in the end, because:
- better at day to day stuff for us (bigger boot, more ground clearance - the Giulia would scrape getting in and out of parking at work)
- better interior finish, and perceived better build quality. Not sure about that, with the recall and all. All our friends with Giulia or Stelvio had their cars recalled as well though
- better value for money - the Alfa was just too expensive

As for build quality: I don't think there are differences between build quality in the various VAG products. There are serious differences in material quality though. Drive around a bit in a high-end Audi and you'll know what I'm talking about. Too bad the Audis are - like Alfa - just too expensive.
 

R3k1355

Active Member
Oct 30, 2014
1,778
247
Yorkshire
Skoda have made a great product but they're no longer the bargain they were - they have a strong following who are loyal to the brand

They are still the cheaper end of the VAG spectrum, but you're right Skoda have built a very strong customer base who would be pretty unimpressed if they suddenly went all Dacia on them.

All rather amusing considering that VAG stated that SEAT was to become their equivalent
of Alfa Romeo when they first bought them donkeys years ago.

- Then almost totally failed in doing that by not making them as 'good' as a VW, nor allowing
for extra flair in the designs until recent years and always lumbering them with most un-Alfa
type cars like the Alhambra.
Although SEAT have been improving, they are probably still some way off from offering what
an Alfa promises, (if sometimes not quite delivering.)

Exactly, the Seat range is alrite but if I'm brutally honest it's pretty generic and hasn't really produced anything that stands out as particularly good looking.
In fact the Mk2 is abit of a flabby pig IMO

On the other Hand Alfa does what Alfa does best, you cars are proper munters

1920px-1995_Alfa_Romeo_146.JPG




and some are utterly incredible.



IMG_6342.jpg


alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio.jpg
 

'& Son' managed

Third Party
Mar 2, 2018
269
89
South Coast
...Errr not really seeing the point about Alfa munters - the basic white 146 shown is not the
best-looking of 146, but still more attractive than a lot of it's rivals of the time. I was happy
enough with the, (black) one we had, the interior especially was a cut above the typical
Escort/Astra/Golf in terms of style - and it didn't rattle or break.
 
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