APR Stage 3+ one year on.

ibizacupra

Jack-RIP my little Friend
Jul 25, 2001
31,333
19
glos.uk
Thanks Wilko I agree but why does Mr B have to be so pessamistic about other people's car's??

I've done plenty of track work previously and having spent the dosh on this conversion knowing how hard track is on these big turbo converted car's I thought I would be 'wise' to rebuild with at least stronger rods a baffled sump and some better valves.....advice Bill has given for some time!

The APR kit is a pleasure to drive and own and as a drive in drive out conversion it will surely make sense for some of us non DIY buffs.

As for track I have made it as robust as possible but in the end it is still my everyday road car and it is certainly not built solely as a competition track weapon.

Ian

You call it pessamistic... I call it experience Ian being some what further down the BT route than most of you, in very arduous use.
Nothing wrong at all with the engine mods you have done, as its mostly following advise from me.

You know fully well what works well on the road vs track are night and day different in abuse terms. You have experienced the same issues of brakes, turbo heat in excess, that you can never find on the road.

Pessamistic: Realistic is what I call it.
 

ibizacupra

Jack-RIP my little Friend
Jul 25, 2001
31,333
19
glos.uk
we all get it. i think it just comes free when you go BT....

"Big turbos now include a free 'pessamistic bill' with every purchase, get yours while still in stock"

HoocH
:think:
Remember this when you ALL have called for "free advise" numerous times, which has previously been given...... Pessamistic you say, is in reality Practical advise based on actual experience.
 
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h17och

the hunt is over. 460bhp
Sep 1, 2005
3,504
1
Dunstabubble
i agree bill. most things you say are realistic due to experience BUT you always have to put a bitter twist to it. most the time you could say the same thing but in a very slightly different way and it would come across alot more friendly.

but hey, we are who we are
 

traumapat

Leon Cupra IHI
Jul 24, 2005
5,925
4
sunny sussex
Off topic but you cant really compare any of Bills failures to say ians apr stage 3 or wilkos tdo5 golf etc even with track use as Bill runs quite alot more power.

i doubt if bills would/ could ever be a road car. imo huge difference from a standard bt set up car where your looking for reliable, usable power.

BT willy waving:lol:

bet my jabba mani has less cracks than yours:D;)
 

ryan_s3

Full Member
Mar 27, 2004
1,270
0
I've never found bills comments offensive,i personally like a bit of banter just makes things more interesting.You do tend to get a bit blinkered when you go for one turbo set-up or another i had jabba ihi and thought it was great it's only when i got rid that i started to question things.I doubt anyone on here will push the 1.8t as far as bill which is good to learn from.For me the remap figures the 2.0t k04 equipped cars seem the way forward over the old 1.8t,ihi power at no extra cost other than remap and exhaust.
 

dan-ish

Audi Techie
Jan 26, 2005
205
0
darwen
It's good to see banter but in the real world there's very little difference in the turbo upgrades unless you want the 400+ figures as when your pushing them that hard the weather seems take control.I've totally gone of power figures I prefere the way they drive,having a usable wide power band that doesn't fade away at 6k is what I like but most of the 340 range turbo kits give this
ko4's are as unreliable as IHI when pushed hard without the top end grunt.
The 2l fsi engine is rubish in design,basic enginering design forgot,a modern engine should not use loads of oil,rattle,balance shafts that drop to pices,large restrictions in the inlet flow that carbon up...Yes the fsi will need a decoke when it gets to 100k how many years is it since mechanics have had to do that?smooth power delivery with good torque but time will change peoples mind of the 2l engine.Manufactures seem to use electrical enginering to compensate for poor mechanics I get reminded every morning when I start the R8's up and there cloads of blue smoke.

I'd recomend a bigger turbo to any one,but make sure you get the one that suits you.
If you want a drivable car the APR kit is good as is the IHI and both are relible as long as there not pushed to hard.
If all you do is track days or race and you can never be happy with the power you got go for the equal length manifolds and larger turbo's and externel gated,Bill is the testing ground for this but don't expect a tubular manifold to go thru several heat cycles every day being cold then extream hot once in a blue moon to last it will crack.

I've had years of experance to and spent 1k's and lost 1k's in the prosess my old A3 made 460bhp very smooth delivery all the way to the limiter with loads of torque but I knew it can't be reliable thats why it went.

My 2p
 

ryan_s3

Full Member
Mar 27, 2004
1,270
0
who cares about engine design if it produces the power/torque and in the correct manner?
Didn't think you ever got the a3 mapped?
 

ibizacupra

Jack-RIP my little Friend
Jul 25, 2001
31,333
19
glos.uk
wayne @ chipwizards i think if i read cgti forum right yesterday.
top spec car that a3. wish i had the money spare, its was a great spec.
 

ryan_s3

Full Member
Mar 27, 2004
1,270
0
why unreliable? Personally i think anything over 500bhp is starting to become unreliable.
 

dan-ish

Audi Techie
Jan 26, 2005
205
0
darwen
whats the point in having 300bhp if it only lasts 12months before it needs a rebuild?Thats why engine design matters we're not all driving race engines.
My view is nothing is reliable at any power i've worked on all makes of cars all models and quite a lot of top cars they all brake.
As nice as my Audi was what put me off the Audi was the head ported to the limit,the gudgeon pins very close to the rings there was loads of things, i like things to be over engineered not at a knife edge,at the end of the day the manufactor put there safe limit on the 1.8t engine design at 240bhp as the tt sportline.It's people like us pushing the boundary at our cost.
 

ryan_s3

Full Member
Mar 27, 2004
1,270
0
I guess we will see what happens with the 2.0t,i remember the old cossie engines drinking oil etc.
 

dan-ish

Audi Techie
Jan 26, 2005
205
0
darwen
you sound quite disallusioned dan :(

Growing old mate getting dealership blinkers at the end of the day i'm working on the future before many see them:headhurt:

I've been let down by so many tunners in the last few years because there to busy slagging each other off.
Every one is equal in my eyes yet because i'm friends with a tunner another wont do my car for fear of information being pinched:rolleyes:(so sell for less than 1/2 the parts bill)

I go out in my polo a few nights a week on some really good roads,I've done13000 miles and not actually gone anywhere yet I get very close to the edge of safety and crap my self everytime and it's only 320. I don't see the need for 400+bhp unless you are actually capable and able of using it(which i'm not)

There has come a time when there should be another sub section "mid the way to BIG TURBO" the ihi/gt28rs bracket lol.

Serious people like your self that can use the power,race and do track days need the big power but I feel many just want pub figures which means crap if you can't turn them figures to the tarmac.There's to many people discousing and not building in my eyes.
 

ibizacupra

Jack-RIP my little Friend
Jul 25, 2001
31,333
19
glos.uk
I agree with the figures being chased because they sound good.... where practical power for road car use is a lesser level.
willy waving of sorts, but they should consider drivability for road car is the most important aspect. An example of which is MrsB Lupo. Still stock k03s, stock motor, just remapped, 220bhp/250lbft torque and its a perfect road car. thumping instant power delivery to the extent it needs R888 tyres to make daily use of it, and kick up the bum torque delivery on anything >2k rpm. I was going to bung on my old PE1820 onto it on my old JS mani, but I dont want to ruin what is already a traction limited package.

Ibiza, now race use is different, but also has to be usable power as well. Combes saloons regs do me no favours in that respect as its road tyres only, not even track rubber like jans lupos runs. In real conditions trying to beat a 280bhp atmo astra despite my +200bhp over him is not straight forward at all. One of the reasons I have now got a set of slicks to look at other c'ships where I will be able to use more of the potential power. Combe will be power limited, others wont be.

I'm chasing higher power, but also the means to make it more usable at the same time, hence the big leap in going standalone for one box controls all solution with its extra features it can offer me.

Its bad news the 2.0tfsi is as poor as you are seeing, as its the future as you say. Next 5 years will show the real weakness's.

sorry to ian - this has derailed your thread :redface:
 
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Ianb

Full Member
Nov 13, 2003
332
0
I agree with the figures being chased because they sound good.... where practical power for road car use is a lesser level.
willy waving of sorts, but they should consider drivability for road car is the most important aspect. An example of which is MrsB Lupo. Still stock k03s, stock motor, just remapped, 220bhp/250lbft torque and its a perfect road car. thumping instant power delivery to the extent it needs R888 tyres to make daily use of it, and kick up the bum torque delivery on anything >2k rpm. I was going to bung on my old PE1820 onto it on my old JS mani, but I dont want to ruin what is already a traction limited package.

Ibiza, now race use is different, but also has to be usable power as well. Combes saloons regs do me no favours in that respect as its road tyres only, not even track rubber like jans lupos runs. In real conditions trying to beat a 280bhp atmo astra despite my +200bhp over him is not straight forward at all. One of the reasons I have now got a set of slicks to look at other c'ships where I will be able to use more of the potential power. Combe will be power limited, others wont be.

I'm chasing higher power, but also the means to make it more usable at the same time, hence the big leap in going standalone for one box controls all solution with its extra features it can offer me.

Its bad news the 2.0tfsi is as poor as you are seeing, as its the future as you say. Next 5 years will show the real weakness's.

sorry to ian - this has derailed your thread :redface:

Only slightly:headhurt:

As said from my first post the APR kit has been excellent. Track use for my car isn't it's first priority but is very much secondary and I may dable in a few laps here and there. As a fast useable road car it's a giggle a minute!

I would have to say that sticking to normally aspirated on grounds of budget/reliability(potential issues of heat/expensive breakages etc) is my advice if one can afford in these ever changing times.

Trackdays and motoring in general is becoming prohibitively expensive for the masses I fear. Gone are the cheap trackdays based of fuel costs alone.

The credit crunch is biting us all especially middle Englansd on middle England salaries. Many of the mortgaged/children at home still classes will be priced out eventually if things get worse. Even the editors of Evo mag are rightly depressed only this month commenting on ther cost of running the new Evo 10.

Going back to the B/T debate is choose wisely and look at proven kit's unless you can DIY all the issue's yourself and are an expert at using diagnostic equipement.
 
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Ianb

Full Member
Nov 13, 2003
332
0
You call it pessamistic... I call it experience Ian being some what further down the BT route than most of you, in very arduous use.
Nothing wrong at all with the engine mods you have done, as its mostly
following advise from me.
You know fully well what works well on the road vs track are night and day different in abuse terms. You have experienced the same issues of brakes, turbo heat in excess, that you can never find on the road.

Pessamistic: Realistic is what I call it.

and advice from other people also in the know Bill!;)