Help required with overboost issue PLLLZZZZ! 01/07 New Map, things looking up?

[Rocky Rocastle]

Hi guys

I briefly brought this problem up a week or so back but I wanted to see if we had rectified it but no such luck. I'll go from the top as the full story i hope will help.

Basically prior to getting my car mapped, it would 80% of the time boost and hold 11/12psi but i had terrible surging and it would go to 20ish and fluctuate slighly for a short while then drop back down. I hoped that having the car mapped could potential sort the issue as it may of been a standard map issue or something along those line.

Well, I have now had a P Torque map Stage 1. On the day, Will noticed himself the bad surging and advised this could potentially be down to the N75, he ran the usual checks for faults but nothing showed relating to this, the only fault that did get highlighted was the EGT sensor - circuit closed. Since the map I have probably driven no more than 80 miles and the chances are the ECU hasn't adapted fully to my driving style yet but in most gears (up to 4th mainly) , the majority of the time it's spiking at 26. At the min as the map is still getting to grips with things the holding point can vary but in 5th and 6th im get spiking as high as 28/30 , THIS IS WORRYING ME! and things seem to have just carried on on top of the prior issue.

Obviously, the first port of call to try and sort this was to look at the N75. CupraMVR has kindly borrowed me his for 24hours along with the pipr running to the actuator. I have driven tonight and i'm still get the really high spiking, he had my N75 and didn't seem to have any isues on his own car either. Therefore, N75 seems to be ok, no splits that we could see in said pipe.

Therefore ruling this out, are there any technical guys on tonight that can lead us in the direction of what to look at next that could cause this much overboost, i would personally expect a spike of 24 very very max and a hold of 20. Please rule the map out, as i say, it was a prior issue Also, we could Vag.com it but wouldn't know what to test!

Finally, could it be false readings, on my gauge, it runs from my FPR, suppose it's doubtful but trying to cover or get ideas on everything!!!

 

[Rocky Rocastle]

If you have taken the time to read the above as I appreciate it's an essay, I do appreciate it and thanks for any input in advance!

 

[davebnly]

After all that, is there actually anything wrong with the running of the car? or is it just the guage reading that is worrying you? not sure because its a while ago but when mine had stage one map i think it was spiking around 18/19psi and dropping off to 12/13. I would be tempted to say your gauge is faulty.

I have had mine spike at an actual 28 Psi but it is running a hybrid designed for that kind of pressure.
I'm sure standard KO3 internals would not take that pressure without something breaking.
(oops just realised, your on a KO4, but i presume the principal is similar)
See if you can borrow someone elses guage and see what reading you get from that. Then come back if the problem is still occuring.

 

[Willie]

VAG com will give you the MAP sensor reading for boost that the engine is working off.
TBH I'm very surprised you went ahead with the remap with an issue with your car, surprised Will went ahead aswell.
I take it your driving very carefully till you find out what wrong with this?
Have you done any logging to see what the requested is versus the actual boost?

 

[rsmith]

the n75 will only read 2540mbar, including atmospheric pressure, thats 21.75psi.Logging can not do any harm to see what is being requested from the ECU.My boost guage reads overboost to about 25-26and then it drops down and holds 20/21psi for a while before before holding steady at about 17-18psi in the higher gears, also the higher the gear the higher my boost spike is, in the lower gears i get a boost spike of about 21psi but it drops down much more as i go up the rev range, it has never been near 30psi, i did post about this but it was explained that it was normal behavoir for a remap.

vag com should defo be run for errors and loggin of block 115 for boost requested vs actual.TBH the boost spikes you explain sound like mine just never near 30psi, over optimistic boost guage perhaps.

let me know if i can help in anyway.

 

[Rocky Rocastle]

I have been driving slow, really with the exception of last night when johns N75 was put in to see if this rectified the problem. As it hasn't, i will go back into limp mode

Vag.com is something completely new to myself, i know what it can do but not how to use it. Is it just the above that needs to be measured i.e. block 115 to check for actual versus requested or anything else as well. Can someone also confirm the process for this please or basically what to do and will this give readings for actual versus requested in every gear (i.e if the spiking is higher in 5 and 6th would this show), if that makes sense, sorry i'm not technically minded with all this stuff!

Also, i'm trying a new guage today btw so will report back on this aspect but any help with that bit above would be good, thanks.

 

[Rocky Rocastle]

Group A:	'003				Group B:	'115				Group C:	'118				
	RPM	Mass Flow	Load	Ign. Timing		RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.		RPM	Temperature	Load	Absolute Pres.	
TIME					TIME					TIME					
STAMP	 /min	 g/s	%	 °ATDC	STAMP	 /min	%	 mbar	 mbar	STAMP	 /min	°C	%	 mbar	
0.4	2760	76	100	16.5	0.82	2880	151.1	2290	1830	0.01	2680	29	95.3	1280	
1.71	3200	152.03	100	3	2.11	3400	191.7	2430	2540	1.31	3040	28	95.3	2340	
2.93	3720	149.36	100	7.5	3.42	3880	191.7	2440	2410	2.51	3560	27	83.1	2540	
4.33	4200	162.11	100	12	4.73	4360	191.7	2420	2420	3.82	4040	28	80.8	2420	
5.63	4680	174.58	100	15	6.03	4800	191.7	2370	2360	5.13	4480	30	82	2430	
6.85	5080	184.44	100	14.3	7.25	5200	190.2	2340	2330	6.45	4960	33	82.7	2350	
8.05	5440	194.61	100	15	8.45	5520	189.5	2310	2240	7.65	5320	36	89.8	2290	
9.36	5760	199.06	100	15	9.76	5880	177.4	2260	2240	8.86	5640	39	95.3	2210	
10.67	6080	204.28	100	15	11.07	6160	171.4	2190	2240	10.27	6000	42	95.3	2270	
11.87	6320	203.64	100	19.5	12.28	6320	147.4	1000	2310	11.47	6240	45	95.3	2170

 

[Rocky Rocastle]

Well these are the logs from a "power run" yesterday. Unfortunately couldn't get to the limiter but we get a fairly decent run. Tried a different gauge, whilst the autogauge isn't the best and i will be changing it, me and John are confident this isn't the issue. Also plumbed in silicone hose now for the gauge instead of the standard washer jet stuff you get with it just in case.

So, in summary, 99% certain it's not N75 related or down to a faulty boost gauge.

The one thing that still shows up that makes the car idle really lumpy when the fault is cleared is the EGT sensor. Going to compare this to John's leon to see if it's just loose or goosed. O the other hand he doesn't think this will be the issue here anyway!!

 

[DPJ]

Car looks healthy from that. (getting a bit warm - no FMIC?)

As I suggested, you should really only log 2 blocks at a time to get a decent sampling rate. Without the other required logs, can't really comment further....

 

[Rocky Rocastle]

if i can get hold of vag.com again then which 2 am i best measuring at the same time. I know you mentioned the 3 blocks yesterday, 115 for Act versus req' and 003 and 118. Therefore should i do

115 & 003 and 115 & 118.

If we set aside vag.com for a minute, theoretically what could be causing it to spike this high exc the bits mentioned above?

(oh and correct, no fmic)

 

[CupraMVR]

Im gonna swap my EGT sensor over, when both engines are cold and see if the recurring fault goes away. cant get my head round why its over boosting its either a MAP sensor or a possible fault in the map on the car. can try my sensors all day long to see if anything fixes it.

 

[Willie]

So from these results we can deduce that your boost gauge is ****ed as the highest boost pressure you have is 2540 mBAR which taking away the atmospheric pressure of 1000 mBAR gives you 1540 mBAR or 21.75PSI. If your boost gauge is reading 30PSI then its 8PSI out

 

[DPJ]

2540 is the max that the map sensor will read. (But it's difficult to tell from the log sample if its at +2540 for long)

 

[Willie]

AAAHHHH, so it could be boosting higher just after this to 30PSI then but the MAP sensor cannot read this high. Isn't there a 3 BAR MAP sensor going about?
What model was it fitted to again?

 

[Rocky Rocastle]

well, Matt has very kindly let me borrow his laptop and vag.com again but i will not be collecting it until tommorrow morning. Therefore, can someone confirm catergorically (sp) what needs logging and what will give the best esults to look at. As i said above, should i do 2 runs if poss', one logging blocks 115 and 003 and the other logging 115 and 118. This time i'll make sure i get it to the limiter to hopefully give a better picture!!!!

Also i understand what you say about the boost gauge Willie but prior to the map it ran 11/12psi and when the surging/overboosting was happening and the 20/21 psi showed on the boost gauge you could actually feel the car pull more , the gauge wasn't doing it on it's own i.e moving without any extra power from the car.

The car is smoother now post map so it is harder to tell but i'm still not fully convinced it's purely boost gauge related, i think there is something underlying too.

 

[Rocky Rocastle]

RUN 1

Group A:	'118				Group B:	'032	
	RPM	Temperature	Load	Absolute Pres.		Lambda	Lambda
TIME					TIME		
STAMP	 /min	°C	%	 mbar	STAMP	%	%
1.02	2160	32	95.3	1340	0.54	0	0
1.83	2320	30	95.3	1610	1.42	0	0
2.65	2520	30	95.3	1910	2.23	0	0
3.45	2760	30	95.3	2380	3.05	0	0
4.25	3080	30	86.7	2540	3.85	0	0
5.05	3400	30	79.2	2480	4.65	0	0
5.96	3680	30	79.6	2440	5.46	0	0
6.76	3960	31	80.4	2450	6.36	0	0
7.67	4280	33	81.6	2440	7.17	0	0
8.47	4520	34	83.5	2420	8.07	0	0
9.28	4760	36	84.7	2400	8.87	0	0
10.08	5040	37	86.7	2360	9.68	0	0
10.88	5280	39	95.3	2330	10.48	0	0
11.89	5560	42	95.3	2230	11.4	0	0
12.8	5760	45	95.3	2240	12.29	0	0
13.7	5960	46	95.3	2260	13.3	0	0
14.51	6160	48	95.3	2250	14.1	0	0
15.31	6320	50	92.2	2220	14.91	0	0
16.21	6480	51	85.5	2160	15.73	0	0
17.12	6640	53	74.1	2250	16.63	0	0
17.94	6720	52	74.1	1950	17.54	0	0
18.74	6800	54	76.5	2010	18.32	0	0
19.54	6800	52	0	1670	19.14	0	0

RUN 2

Group A:	'115				Group B:	'031	
	RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.		Lambda Factor	Lambda Factor
TIME					TIME		
STAMP	 /min	%	 mbar	 mbar	STAMP		
6.24	2560	136.1	1520	1660	5.82	0.883	0.867
7.13	2800	155.6	2290	1880	6.73	0.828	0.844
7.95	3080	191.7	2400	2540	7.53	0.821	0.821
8.85	3480	191.7	2430	2540	8.45	0.805	0.797
9.85	3880	191.7	2410	2440	9.36	0.75	0.774
10.77	4200	191.7	2400	2380	10.25	0.75	0.75
11.57	4520	191.7	2400	2420	11.17	0.75	0.735
12.46	4800	191.7	2380	2340	12.06	0.75	0.719
13.28	5040	188.7	2360	2370	12.88	0.75	0.711
14.17	5320	191	2340	2310	13.77	0.75	0.704
14.99	5520	185.7	2310	2290	14.59	0.75	0.696
16	5760	178.2	2300	2230	15.48	0.75	0.696
16.8	5920	171.4	2260	2240	16.4	0.75	0.688
17.71	6080	180.5	2210	2180	17.29	0.75	0.688
18.6	6240	167.7	2180	2220	18.11	0.75	0.688
19.4	6360	164.7	2150	2210	19	0.75	0.688
20.31	6480	172.2	2080	2120	19.82	0.75	0.688
21.23	6600	153.4	2040	2080	20.73	0.75	0.688
22.12	6680	139.8	2010	2080	21.72	0.75	0.688
23.13	6800	154.1	1980	1950	22.63	0.75	0.688
24.04	6640	15.8	1000	1550	23.55	0.75	0.688

RUN 3

Group A:	'003				Group B:	'020				Group C:
	RPM	Mass Flow	Load	Ign. Timing		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	
TIME					TIME					TIME
STAMP	 /min	 g/s	%	 °BTDC	STAMP	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF	STAMP
20.21	2400	59.78	98	13.5	20.7	0	0	0	0	21.1
21.5	2800	101.69	100	1.5	21.92	0	0	0	0	22.42
22.82	3320	142.94	100	4.5	23.33	0	0	0	0	23.82
24.22	3840	148.58	100	8.3	24.62	0	0	0	0	25.04
25.44	4280	161.81	100	12.8	25.84	0	0	0	0	26.24
26.64	4680	179.31	100	15.8	27.04	0	0	0	0	27.44
27.85	5080	186.97	100	14.3	28.35	3	0	0	3	28.85
29.26	5520	195.72	100	15.8	29.66	3	3	3	2.3	30.06
30.46	5840	201.03	100	15.8	30.86	2.3	2.3	6	2.3	31.37
31.77	6160	203.64	100	15	32.17	1.5	2.3	5.3	4.5	32.67
33.07	6440	203.39	99.6	16.5	33.48	1.5	4.5	5.3	7.5	34

Hopefully some better logs for you guys in the know to cast yours over, pretty please

 

[DPJ]

I don't believe you've got a boost spike issue. As said, it looks like you need a new gauge.

It looks pretty healthy to me. I assume you don't have a FMIC. It looks to me as if things get a bit warm further up the rev range, causing correction factors. It's running a tad leaner than the map is requesting, but nothing to worry about.

I'd get a FMIC, or ask for the timing to be retarded a bit.......

 

[Rocky Rocastle]

Hi Dave , thanks for the response

As you rightly say there is no fmic on it and it would be a while until I could afford a decent one . If the EGT sensor isn't working correctly could this affect temp's or or is this something else again.

Leading on from that as well what do you mean by retarded the timing. I just searched this and came across a thread which goes into quite a bit of depth on fueling and remaps. I use V-power at the min, I take it no one has heard other wise about using this with a P Torque map. I didn't appreciate fuel was such an issue with things like higher end combustion for eg?

 

[DPJ]

Using a lower RON fuel than Vpower would make your CF 'problem' worse.

Can I suggest you PM Will to ask for comments on your logs?

Did you do other runs before the ones posted? (I was just wolndering if the intake temps were a culmination of many runs)....

An EGT sensor problem wouldn't affect intake temps.......

 

[rsmith]

Rocky,

Google "TTweakers-Guide.pdf", it is for the TT(same BAM engine i think) but it explains all the blocks that you logged for boost/CF etc... i found it very useful in understanding this stuff.

Also from the way i understood it, cars will aggrevise remaps will have retarded timing but as long as the numbers are not too high, it is acceptable.
Someone please correct me if i am wrong.