Limited Slip Differential review, owners please comment

Willie

LCR Track car
Aug 6, 2004
8,939
1
Sunny Scotland
I did have a thread about differentials before but cannot seem to find it anywhere??

Never mind.

I've always wanted to have a differential but never had the excuse or the money.

We'll I have eventually found both :)

I've done quite a bit of reading about the three main Automatic Torque Baised Differentials for our cars, these being Quaife, Peloquin and Autotec Wavetrac.

Most people have heard of the first two, but the third is a newer and not so well known one.
For the LCR and LC gear boxes this diff has only been available for less than two years.
This being the case there is very little on the internet when searching for reviews on this one.

So here goes another one.

I bought my Autotec Wavetrac differential and had this with a fitting kit sent down to a company that does VW race car preparations. This is a well know company in the VAG scene and when searching one of the few who there were no bad reviews on. One of our members with a massively powered Ibiza race car uses these guys so what more reason do we need to use them.

Anyway this was fitted to a spare gear box I had bought which came off a MK4 Golf 1.8T GTI Anniversary. This is the same 6 speed 02M box as the LCR and LC but with a different transmission code, FZQ rather than FML for the LCR.

This was fitted to my car with the help of a few friends and all went well.

I've only recently fitted this and only had one drive with it on so not fully up to speed with the various characteristics of this set up.

Those who are not well aquainted with my car its a stripped out 2003 210 BHP LCR, I've owned this car since new. I only run one or two front seats, spare wheel is gone, door cards, roof lining, inner door skins gone and Lexan windows fitted.
The suspension is KW Varient 3 coilovers with 23mm front ARB, 28mm rear ARB, S3 strutt brace, uprated engine mounts and new OEM LCR wishbone bushes.
So it's not the same as the other LCR's you see going about but same too its not vastly different.
Just now I'm still running winter tyres too.

With this differential fitted I've driven on some of the roads that I drive on litterally every day, I know very well how my car handles every inch of this road. Due to the winter tyres I couldn't be too extreme with pushing things, oh and the fact that its a public highway too.

Going back to when I initially fitted my ARB's and coilovers, the first drive out with these showed me how used I had gotten to the understeer of the car when throwing it into corners. It really surprised me when I turned the wheel there was next to no delay in the cars directional change, it happened almost instantly. This also surprised one of my friends who took a drive in the car, he has a MK2 LC.


As I have been living with the above set up for over 1 year and also been out on the track 3 times I'm well used to this.
Now with the differential fitted the turn in is even less unsettled due to the shear amount of traction that the LSD has given me mid corner.
As I said I still have to test this and see how far I can push this, on the track obviously, but initially I can start accelerating before the apex of the corners and the cars just pulls all the way in the direction of where the steering wheel is pointed.
If someone was to drive my car there is no way they would know that there is an LSD in the gear box as its operation is seamless. Litterally if I hadn't known the cars behavour very well before fitting this I would doubt its there as there is no way of telling short of the increased traction.

This is not a magical device, if you break traction with power then both wheels spin till the revs decrease and you gain traction again, then your off.

I have Toyo R888 tyres for my summer set up and cannot wait to get these on and warmed up to see how things improve.

Before fitting this differential, as I said, I did some digging. I would be very interested for the people on this forum to add there comments on this thread on there feelings and experiences with there differentials on there cars. Perhaps we will all get to understand the differences between the differnt ones and how it changes with other suspension set ups.
This might aid others thinking of going the same route to find out which one suits them.
I'll be honest, it was a very difficult choice to steer away for the usual Quaife or *Peloquin route, this is a very well trodden path with lots of reviews and big ups.
Perhaps this might be the start of the big ups for the Autotec Wavetrac???
 

karlw

AKA Shifty - Modded LCR
Jan 29, 2010
218
0
Ipswich, Suffolk
Good Read! I would love to try an LSD on my LCR as it really struggles to get traction in most gears and conering is shocking. Coming from a 200Sx with an LSD and Racelogik traction control and an Evo with AYC both handled so much better than my LCR. I know a slipper would make a difference but i think before throwing more moeny at my LCR id need to drive another LCR with and LSD. Otherwise I think I'll just go back to a Jap Monster again ;)
 

Cupra R

Active Member
Dec 5, 2001
2,217
4
UK.
Visit site
Excellent thread mate. I'm looking forward to reading experiences/views of the different diff's that are available. The Wavetrac has caught my eye.
 

TubbyTwo

Taking a break from JDM..
Jan 27, 2010
957
0
Ipswich, Suffolk
Good Read! I would love to try an LSD on my LCR as it really struggles to get traction in most gears and conering is shocking. Coming from a 200Sx with an LSD and Racelogik traction control and an Evo with AYC both handled so much better than my LCR. I know a slipper would make a difference but i think before throwing more moeny at my LCR id need to drive another LCR with and LSD. Otherwise I think I'll just go back to a Jap Monster again ;)

Im using the LCR as a sensible break from my jap stuff, once my house is all sorted, im selling it going back to a derv daily driver and then something Jap and mental as a toy :funk::drool:
 

JamJay

California Bound
Subscribed, I want to learn more about this :)

Oh and I'd never go back to Jap. I don't think I could deal with the substandard interior build quality or the bad fast & furious image that they carry. German from here on out most likely, slowly progressing away from modding at all at some point.
 
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slick

Bit of an animal
Mar 15, 2005
1,124
0
Essex
Well I've written over the last three-four years about the ability of my Quaiffe ATB diff...
I run Toyo T1-R's even during the winter, and to be honest, even though my Leon being a TDi, it just sticks to every corner I throw it into...
The only time I've had scarey moments, are when in the wrong gear and rev range and you try to coast round alittle then push on the power, this will make the car wriggle alitte or even snatch the wheel from you, but drive it properly and I found it will near chase any car on a twisty road..

My favorite moment I've had with mine was a couple summers ago, brand new tyres, lovely hot sticky tarmac day went out for a little drive and ended up in a little tussle with a heavily modified Evo. Came to a completey deserted roundabout in the country in which the Evo thought he could go around the roundabout twice before I got round it once... this turned into a sort of benny hill sketch going around the roundabout a few times, before he gave up noticing I'd was gaining on him on the roundabout..

As you say Willie, its just a point and go device on the car...
Impressed so many people with it in my car, one went out and brought one himself (Jonjay) lol
 

Willie

LCR Track car
Aug 6, 2004
8,939
1
Sunny Scotland
Well I've written over the last three-four years about the ability of my Quaiffe ATB diff...
I run Toyo T1-R's even during the winter, and to be honest, even though my Leon being a TDi, it just sticks to every corner I throw it into...
The only time I've had scarey moments, are when in the wrong gear and rev range and you try to coast round alittle then push on the power, this will make the car wriggle alitte or even snatch the wheel from you, but drive it properly and I found it will near chase any car on a twisty road..

My favorite moment I've had with mine was a couple summers ago, brand new tyres, lovely hot sticky tarmac day went out for a little drive and ended up in a little tussle with a heavily modified Evo. Came to a completey deserted roundabout in the country in which the Evo thought he could go around the roundabout twice before I got round it once... this turned into a sort of benny hill sketch going around the roundabout a few times, before he gave up noticing I'd was gaining on him on the roundabout..

As you say Willie, its just a point and go device on the car...
Impressed so many people with it in my car, one went out and brought one himself (Jonjay) lol
Thanks for this.
Can you actually feel the differential doing its bit?
Is there a noticable point where the differential takes control of the situation and pulls you out of the sheet?
You say and so have others that the steering wheel can be snatched out of your hands, do you know at what point this happens?
 

karlw

AKA Shifty - Modded LCR
Jan 29, 2010
218
0
Ipswich, Suffolk
Well I've written over the last three-four years about the ability of my Quaiffe ATB diff...
I run Toyo T1-R's even during the winter, and to be honest, even though my Leon being a TDi, it just sticks to every corner I throw it into...
The only time I've had scarey moments, are when in the wrong gear and rev range and you try to coast round alittle then push on the power, this will make the car wriggle alitte or even snatch the wheel from you, but drive it properly and I found it will near chase any car on a twisty road..

My favorite moment I've had with mine was a couple summers ago, brand new tyres, lovely hot sticky tarmac day went out for a little drive and ended up in a little tussle with a heavily modified Evo. Came to a completey deserted roundabout in the country in which the Evo thought he could go around the roundabout twice before I got round it once... this turned into a sort of benny hill sketch going around the roundabout a few times, before he gave up noticing I'd was gaining on him on the roundabout..

As you say Willie, its just a point and go device on the car...
Impressed so many people with it in my car, one went out and brought one himself (Jonjay) lol


Diffinitely need to try and LCR wirh a slipper now although the guy in the evo probably just ran out of talent as when i had mine there werent much that would keep up with it on twistys and roundabouts :D
 

slick

Bit of an animal
Mar 15, 2005
1,124
0
Essex
If you really push the car, you will "hear" the diff doing its work with tyres on each side switching the power over, when either of them loses grip and then re grip, abit like tyre "chirp"...
The steering wheel is where you feel the diff working, pulling on the steering wheel in the direction with most grip
The "snatch" happens become one wheel has lost traction/become airbourne/locked up and ALL power goes to the other wheel, and doing that it just become like torque steer in any other car, it pulls in the direction of the powers direction. This happens on corners if the car isnt level enough and one wheel lifts off the tarmac, when it comes back down, (usually when you come out of the corner) its normally a quick change of power to one wheel to the other, and the torque steer snatches the wheel from you.
The other trick was found out by a few Focus RS owners years ago (they share the same diff) come over a crest of a hill, car lightens up on suspension, power is still on or put back on before fully compressed suspension, the diff doesnt know where the traction went in both wheels, and if your unlucky and need to couter steer alittle for a pot hole, slight curve etc, if your wheel come down turned slightly, the diff can take you by surprise and spit you off the corner when the diff finally sorts out the traction problem... hence i got the stiffest suspension, ARBs, struts, droplinks, top mounts and bushes known to man, to all help keep the car constant for the diff to understand where the wheels with traction...

This is all avoidable if not pushing the car, as it wont behave like this unless "pushed"
but if you do push it.... hold on tight, it will try and tell you where "IT" wants to go (where most traction is)
 

slick

Bit of an animal
Mar 15, 2005
1,124
0
Essex
although the guy in the evo probably just ran out of talent as when i had mine there werent much that would keep up with it on twistys and roundabouts :D

Oh he didnt, he was on the limit of the car, rear wheels where sliding and near 4 wheel drifting the power out, he wasnt a young lad in a evo, this guy was in his late 30's and knew how to drive it...
It wasnt the twisties that i meant i kept up, i meant the speed at which I can power thou and keep on the car "in" a corner... hence roundabouts are the most fun, holding pace in a corner and the abilitie to "pour" on more power in the corner without the tyres spinning up or spinning out of the corner, the Evo had rear wheel traction issues... ;)
One the straight Evo was leaving me, but mid corner i would chase him into it, during it and on the way out...
 

karlw

AKA Shifty - Modded LCR
Jan 29, 2010
218
0
Ipswich, Suffolk
Never had that problem with mine the AYC would clap the diff and send the power to from to prevent the rear from spinning or lossing grip and if the Evo was an RS without AYC then the same would happen to the rear like yours front powe would go to wheel with traction. Maybe his AYC was nacked cuasing it to just act like a open diff.

Where abouts in Essex are you id love you see you your car handles. Are you gonna go to the Clive Athoe RR meet in norwich in June??
 

slick

Bit of an animal
Mar 15, 2005
1,124
0
Essex
Well it was the Evo V so i dont know how that plays with all the electronics back then...

I'm in Ilford/Basildon i commute regularly to and from those as gf lives out there.... Dont attend many meets currently, normally do in the good weather thou! Any AMD day is normally an excuse for me... lol and VAG show days!
 

jonjay

50 Years of 911
Jun 27, 2005
5,843
1
Essex
Thanks for this.
Can you actually feel the differential doing its bit?
Is there a noticable point where the differential takes control of the situation and pulls you out of the sheet?
You say and so have others that the steering wheel can be snatched out of your hands, do you know at what point this happens?
I noticed it straight away yes. Got to a point that when I drive "normal" cars I miss the feeling of the diff working.

You notice it kicking in one bends when you apply the throttle. It tends to snatch on uneven or heavily chambered roads. I made a mistake of hitting a turn, planting my foot so diff gave me immense traction but when I went to change direction the diff wanted to go one way and me the other. Back came out and after a brown moment the diff saved me from going into curb.
 
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slick

Bit of an animal
Mar 15, 2005
1,124
0
Essex
Got to a point that when I drive "normal" cars I miss the feeling of the diff working.

Both of us now confess to, needing to fit a diff to any new car we own from now on... as its such a good piece of equipment and wouldnt feel right without it.
 

RobDon

Pro Detailer
I've had a Quaife ATB diff for quite a few years now, have used it on trackdays at Knockhill too. I did a couple of trackdays before I had the diff fitted, the trackdays after was like night and day! On hard corners, roundabouts, etc. you can feel the front wheels working to grip as much as possible, keep your foot in and it goes. I used to smoke the offside front tyre at the hairpin on KH, once the diff was fitted that didn't happen again, just felt like lots more grip, round she went and off you go! The car just feels alot more planted and the diff tries to keep you going with as much grip as possible. If the back end does step out, point your wheels in the direction you want to go and nail the throttle, the diff will do the rest.
 

Willie

LCR Track car
Aug 6, 2004
8,939
1
Sunny Scotland
Thanks for your input guys.
So it does seem like there are differences between the Quaife and the Wavetrac emerging.

The Wavetrac is absolutely seamless in its operation and application, as i've said, if you didn't know it was there you have no way of telling apart from the increase traction.
 

ibizacupra

Jack-RIP my little Friend
Jul 25, 2001
31,333
19
glos.uk
just to say, torque biasing diff.. atb diff... not actually a limited slip diff

Wavetrac being slightly different to quaife and peloquin, in their preload mechanism internally.

LSD by viscous or plate with ramp rates.. is a true LSD
I ran quaifes for 20 years, worked well as torque biasing, zero maintenance aside from makign sure assembly was not with too much preload in them, as they get hot, and expand, and diff bearings have failed several times.. (hard track use)

I run an SQS plate diff now, locking both ways, and its superb.. and traction is more than the atb, which I could spin up one wheel still. (unloaded one), plate diff just grips and locks both front wheels.

high power fwd car the atb diffs are a superb addition.
 
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