Safe torque figures on Bam 1.8 20vt

Craigus

Black LCR 225
I have recently had my car set up at Awesome gti,

i got 267bhp and 352ft/lb of torque with Revo stage 2

Now one of my friends with a audi a3 aum 1.8t is saying my rods are about to pop out of the engine,

I know this is more than likely a load of crap as John (CupraMvr) had closer to 380ft/lb on standard internals,

i was just wondering what the standard rods can take torque wise? i dont know if it right but im sure the gundgen pins are 20mm on the bam?

Cheers
 

Damoegan

Sir Bob,a geordy legend..
Oct 15, 2007
8,993
3
Newcastle
What dyno was that on? Have you had it on any other dyno's so you have something to compare the results too?

350lb/ft is the max I would go to with OEM rods..
 

ibizacupra

Jack-RIP my little Friend
Jul 25, 2001
31,333
19
glos.uk
dyno lottery I suspect.......

I dont see anything remotely like this on k04 cars.

if they were that high I am sure you would be intimate with your internals now...
 

Craigus

Black LCR 225
IMG_0163.jpg


The line at the bottom in blue is the run i did at r/r day with the old code

The line at the bottom in the red is the new code.
 
Jun 20, 2010
1,296
0
Norfolk
How can revo software get that kind of torque figure and then custom code stage 2 they only quote 270 - 290? i know there all different but thats a big leap
 

ibizacupra

Jack-RIP my little Friend
Jul 25, 2001
31,333
19
glos.uk
all down to preference to tuning..

all that torque all at once in 2wd is not neccessarily a good thing, but in some ways possibly what saves the motor, as being traction limited it will spin away its torque.. where things like S3's apply it all to the ground, and the loads thru the engine are higher.

boost spike gets headline figures or high torque.. but a sustained broad torque band is the smoother to drive.

how can they do it? Lots of initial boost .....
 

ibizacupra

Jack-RIP my little Friend
Jul 25, 2001
31,333
19
glos.uk
Mike what bhp does the custom code make?


So does that indicate that the map on mine is really more for the s3 bill?

dyno lottery.. applies in most instances.
your map is 210/225 engine specific.. not lcr/s3 specific.. the point I was trying to make is a slug of initial torque/boost, all at once on initial spool, on fwd will be tcs light flashing like a disco.. where an S3 being 4wd will just deal with it and use it all..

I am not personally a fan of big spikes of torque, and am very wary of the loads on rods etc.. I am seeing and selling a qty of rods on a regular basis to 210/225 engined cars.. most of which seem to be S3's (my personal theory is their high torque loads are 100% transferred to the road so the engines see more load, where as their fwd cousins, just spin up that torque away and torque is not loaded onto the engine.. (aside from 4/5/6 gears of course)

SPSing the boost down will dull it down, but you will also drop power..

CC maps on my dyno make 250-260bhp region, which is more or less what REVO ones do, but REVO ones I can adjust to make the best of it on the dyno, where CC is flash and test.. not adjustable.
 

ibizacupra

Jack-RIP my little Friend
Jul 25, 2001
31,333
19
glos.uk
dyno software, loads applied by them or not in the case of inertia, gear used etc etc

lots of variables which will effect how things are reported.
 

Mitchy

TTRS
Oct 12, 2004
2,310
0
IMG_0163.jpg


The line at the bottom in blue is the run i did at r/r day with the old code

The line at the bottom in the red is the new code.

That is a truly awful map.

You will get 1 initial push in the back and that is it. Think about it, you accelerate in 2nd say, change up at 6500rpm, revs drop down to 5000rpm and then you accelerate in 3rd between 5000-6500, change up at 6500rpm and then revs drop down to 5000rpm in 4th and accelerate the same 5000-6500 and so on and on. At no point bar that 1st little burst of acceleration that you are getting to exploit that peak torque figure.

That 3000rpm spike is just utterly pointless, the torque of your car is nowhere near a genuine 350lbft+. It's even more pointless as it's just going to lose traction in 2nd, possibly 3rd so it's wasted. The tuner should control boost better and sustain that torque over a wider range. This literally peaks and then falls off a cliff.

I would take any results from awesomes dynojet with a pinch of salt too.

As to different maps, well a revo map may well have a peak torque figure of 350lbft vs say a custom code of 300lbft but do not be fooled into thinking the 350lbft car is quicker.If anything it will be the lower more sustained custom code map due to the reasoning explained with shift points above. Custom code sofware will hold on and sustain more torque further up which will make an overall faster car. You really do need to compare torque at 5000rpm+ to determine how quick your car is going to be against another through the gears.

Its just a characteristic of these turbos, awesome GTI led me to believe I produced 420lbft from the 1.8T when i activated nitrous. Again, this was a massive peak followed by a sharp drop as exhaust manifold could not flow the air quick enough and boost and torque fell off a cliff.

Let's see what happens when you go full throttle 2nd gear at 20mph all the way upto 100mph+.....

Turbo spools and comes on boost, you see a big spike on your boost gauge (If you have 1) and between 2750-4000rpm you produce 300lbft+. If the tyres put this down onto the tarmac, its going to give you a good push in the back and the car is going to feel strong, but I suspect you will see some form of ESP flicker meaning a lot of this is going to be wasted effort. In anycase you have only been accelerating for 2secs or so (2750-4000) and you continue to 6500rpm where you change into 3rd. Revs drop down to 5000rpm and just look at your map now. Car is not producing anywhere near 350lbft, at 5000rpm where your shift point in each gear drops down to, you are producing 270lbft at 5000rpm, 240lbft at 5500rpm, 230lbft at 6000rpm and then 205lbft at 6500rpm where you change up.

Revs fall back to 5000rpm and you accelerate again, 270lbft down to 205lbft between 5000-6500 and then you change up to the next gear. The headline 350lbft is nowhere to be seen bar the initial 2secs or so of first press of the pedal all that time ago now in 2nd gear.

For a quick through the gears car guys, concentrate on the figures in that 5000rpm+ region as that is where you will be spending 99% of your time accelerating ;)

The only benefit I see from this initial peak torque in a drag race would be accelerating from low down in 6th, say 45mph in 6th. Okay if the other car your racing is in 6th too but he will most likely drop a couple of cogs and get down into 4th, you're forced to do the same to keep up and this spike in torque low down is then wasted at your shift points.

Make sense?
 
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Mitchy

TTRS
Oct 12, 2004
2,310
0
I just had a dig out and here is my jabbasport map for my old LCR... It's about as smooth as I have seen a K04 turbo. This run was with 50hp nitrous fired in progressively. Map was just S1, 260bhp/270lbft and then 313bhp/300lbft with nitrous.

52.jpg


This thing flew on the jabbasport map at this level. No massive peak torque figures but look at the way it held onto what it had. Things started going pair shaped for me after this as I went S2, changed the maps and started fiddling with the nitrous to try and improve on the figures. Did see 340bhp and ''420lbft'' on awesomes dynojet in the end but the mapping was crap with the distinctive K04 spike at 3500rpm.

Car tuning is a funny thing, I have learned not to go chasing peak figures. The quicker cars are often the cars with lower more sustained figures.
 
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