running issues. now with even more logs

sambryant

RoadRunner meep meep
Mar 26, 2009
4,847
2
Bristol
im hoping to do some logs tonight, these are the logs i will be taking

118 Engine Speed Intake Air Temp Boost Duty Cycle Actual Boost

020 timing retard 1 timing retard 2 timing retard 3 timing retard 4

003 Idle Speed Air Mass Injection Throttle Angle Ignition Angle

logs will be done in 4th WOT all the way to the red line on my private road ;)
 

sambryant

RoadRunner meep meep
Mar 26, 2009
4,847
2
Bristol
just been out and done some logs


Code:
Tuesday	24	May	2011	21:22:01	
1ML 906 032 		1.8l R4/5VT      04 0001			
					
	Group A:	'118			
		RPM	Temperature	Load	Absolute Pres.
	TIME				
Marker	STAMP	 /min	°C	%	 mbar
	0.76	3000	21	100	1760
	1.97	3560	22	93.3	2540
	3.38	4160	23	89.8	2520
	4.68	4720	25	83.9	2470
	5.99	5200	27	80.4	2370
	7.2	5600	30	80.4	2380
	8.4	5920	32	75.7	2250




Code:
Group B:	'020			
	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization
TIME				
STAMP	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF
1.16	0	1.5	0	0
2.47	0	3	0	0
3.78	3	3	0	0
5.09	2.3	2.3	3	3
6.39	5.3	1.5	3	2.3
7.6	4.5	4.5	6	5.3
8.8	4.5	4.5	6	5.3




Code:
Group C:	'003			
	RPM	Mass Flow	Load	Ign. Timing
TIME				
STAMP	 /min	 g/s	%	 °ATDC
0.36	2920	63.44	29.8	31.5
1.56	3360	151.39	100	9
2.87	3960	178.33	100	12
4.18	4520	196.61	100	12
5.59	5040	208.56	100	12
6.79	5480	218.11	99.6	13.5
8	5800	227.9	100	11.3

so whats the crack then :D
 

DannyC87

Rubbing is Racing :-)
Mar 4, 2008
3,459
0
just been out and done some logs


Code:
Tuesday	24	May	2011	21:22:01	
1ML 906 032 		1.8l R4/5VT      04 0001			
					
	Group A:	'118			
		RPM	Temperature	Load	Absolute Pres.
	TIME				
Marker	STAMP	 /min	°C	%	 mbar
	0.76	3000	21	100	1760
	1.97	3560	22	93.3	2540
	3.38	4160	23	89.8	2520
	4.68	4720	25	83.9	2470
	5.99	5200	27	80.4	2370
	7.2	5600	30	80.4	2380
	8.4	5920	32	75.7	2250




Code:
Group B:	'020			
	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization
TIME				
STAMP	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF
1.16	0	1.5	0	0
2.47	0	3	0	0
3.78	3	3	0	0
5.09	2.3	2.3	3	3
6.39	5.3	1.5	3	2.3
7.6	4.5	4.5	6	5.3
8.8	4.5	4.5	6	5.3




Code:
Group C:	'003			
	RPM	Mass Flow	Load	Ign. Timing
TIME				
STAMP	 /min	 g/s	%	 °ATDC
0.36	2920	63.44	29.8	31.5
1.56	3360	151.39	100	9
2.87	3960	178.33	100	12
4.18	4520	196.61	100	12
5.59	5040	208.56	100	12
6.79	5480	218.11	99.6	13.5
8	5800	227.9	100	11.3

so whats the crack then :D

ECU is pulling your timing back at the top end. Have you logged your AFR at all?
 

sambryant

RoadRunner meep meep
Mar 26, 2009
4,847
2
Bristol
hi danny, no i have not logged AFR :(
is there are problems mid range as this is where the car feels flat, seems like there is no torque.

air flow is pretty good, infact thats the best i have got. 227.9
 

DannyC87

Rubbing is Racing :-)
Mar 4, 2008
3,459
0
hi danny, no i have not logged AFR :(
is there are problems mid range as this is where the car feels flat, seems like there is no torque.

air flow is pretty good, infact thats the best i have got. 227.9

Air flow is very good, and your correction factors are not bad.. I'd be interested to see your AFR tho..
 

rsmith

Robbie
Apr 28, 2004
2,797
1
Tipperary, Ireland
Probably feels flat because of the timing pull, I was testing a map last week, it had great airflow but no much timing advance and it just felt dead.If u pull timing low down the ecu will pull it across the rpm range.

Sam you should be logging 2 groups together btw go to redline.
AFR would be good to see if it's leaning out.
 

ibizacupra

Jack-RIP my little Friend
Jul 25, 2001
31,333
19
glos.uk
look at block 001 and 031 and see what the adjust lambda is vs request under wot 4th gear run also
see what 032 blocks showing also.. dont log it just see what the number is.
CF of up to 6 is ok to me.. Dont want to see any more tho.
 

EL

Forever Alive
Mar 17, 2008
2,931
1
Bickley, Bromley
Subscribed to this thread as there are some interesting facts here. I was under the impression that Revo Stage 2 required a 4bfr and was looking to getting one before getting the car mapped
 

rsmith

Robbie
Apr 28, 2004
2,797
1
Tipperary, Ireland
Bill timing pull of 6- while it is safe it's counter productive to running that much timing in the first place, the ecu always over compensates and pulls to much, however I think the timing pull may only be a symptom and not the cause.

Sam did you clear the ecu adaptations in vagcom?
 

sambryant

RoadRunner meep meep
Mar 26, 2009
4,847
2
Bristol
yes robbie i reset the ecu. im hoping to do more logs tonight.
so is it ok to do 2 logs at the same time or one at a time for best results?
 

sambryant

RoadRunner meep meep
Mar 26, 2009
4,847
2
Bristol
just been out logging blocks 001 and 031


Wednesday,25,May,2011,21:40:50
1ML 906 032 ,,1.8l R4/5VT 04 0001,

,Group A:,'001 Group B:,'031



Code:
Time     rpm   Temp    Lambda                   Time    Lambda   Lambda
STAMP,  /min,   °C,      %,     Bin. Bits       STAMP   Factor   Factor
,0.01,	2680,	82.0,	0.0,	11100001,	0.41,	0.945,	0.914,       
,0.91,	3040,	82.0,	5.5,	11101001,	1.31,	0.875,	0.867,        
,1.71,	3400,	83.0,	5.5,	11101001,	2.11,	0.860,	0.860,        
,2.53,	3760,	83.0,	7.0,	11101001,	2.93,	0.844,	0.860,        
,3.33,	4080,	83.0,	3.9,	11101001,	3.73,	0.836,	0.852,        
,4.13,	4400,	83.0,	3.1,	11101001,	4.53,	0.860,	0.852,        
,4.93,	4720,	84.0,	-1.6,	11101001,	5.34,	0.836,	0.852,        
,5.74,	5000,	84.0,	-3.1,	11101001,	6.14,	0.844,	0.852,        
,6.54,	5280,	84.0,	-3.9,	11101001,	6.94,	0.828,	0.852,        
,7.45,	5560,	84.0,	-1.6,	11101001,	7.85,	0.844,	0.852,        
,8.25,	5760,	84.0,	-3.1,	11101001,	8.75,	0.836,	0.852,        
,9.16,	6000,	84.0,	-2.3,	11101001,	9.56,	0.844,	0.852,        
,10.06,	6200,	84.0,	-3.1,	11101001,	10.46,	0.836,	0.852,        
,10.86,	6360,	83.0,	-2.3,	11101001,	11.28,	0.844,	0.852,        
,11.77,	6560,	82.0,	-2.3,	11101001,	12.17,	0.860,	0.914,



for some reason this time the logs didnt save in the format for excel so i had to arrange them in note pad,

also here is how block 032 looked



so what do you think guys, (burn the car :lol:)
 
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ibizacupra

Jack-RIP my little Friend
Jul 25, 2001
31,333
19
glos.uk
Bill timing pull of 6- while it is safe it's counter productive to running that much timing in the first place, the ecu always over compensates and pulls to much, however I think the timing pull may only be a symptom and not the cause.

Sam did you clear the ecu adaptations in vagcom?

I beg to differ - its a fine line robert, some pull more from minimal additional, some dont... Its not a one for all adjustment, logging and adjusting etc etc
 

ibizacupra

Jack-RIP my little Friend
Jul 25, 2001
31,333
19
glos.uk
just been out logging blocks 001 and 031


Wednesday,25,May,2011,21:40:50
1ML 906 032 ,,1.8l R4/5VT 04 0001,

,Group A:,'001 Group B:,'031



Code:
Time     rpm   Temp    Lambda                   Time    Lambda   Lambda
STAMP,  /min,   °C,      %,     Bin. Bits       STAMP   Factor   Factor
,0.01,	2680,	82.0,	0.0,	11100001,	0.41,	0.945,	0.914,       
,0.91,	3040,	82.0,	5.5,	11101001,	1.31,	0.875,	0.867,        
,1.71,	3400,	83.0,	5.5,	11101001,	2.11,	0.860,	0.860,        
,2.53,	3760,	83.0,	7.0,	11101001,	2.93,	0.844,	0.860,        
,3.33,	4080,	83.0,	3.9,	11101001,	3.73,	0.836,	0.852,        
,4.13,	4400,	83.0,	3.1,	11101001,	4.53,	0.860,	0.852,        
,4.93,	4720,	84.0,	-1.6,	11101001,	5.34,	0.836,	0.852,        
,5.74,	5000,	84.0,	-3.1,	11101001,	6.14,	0.844,	0.852,        
,6.54,	5280,	84.0,	-3.9,	11101001,	6.94,	0.828,	0.852,        
,7.45,	5560,	84.0,	-1.6,	11101001,	7.85,	0.844,	0.852,        
,8.25,	5760,	84.0,	-3.1,	11101001,	8.75,	0.836,	0.852,        
,9.16,	6000,	84.0,	-2.3,	11101001,	9.56,	0.844,	0.852,        
,10.06,	6200,	84.0,	-3.1,	11101001,	10.46,	0.836,	0.852,        
,10.86,	6360,	83.0,	-2.3,	11101001,	11.28,	0.844,	0.852,        
,11.77,	6560,	82.0,	-2.3,	11101001,	12.17,	0.860,	0.914,



for some reason this time the logs didnt save in the format for excel so i had to arrange them in note pad,

also here is how block 032 looked



so what do you think guys, (burn the car :lol:)

ironic ecu has pulled 8% fueling out when the injectors are sat >100% idc
 

sambryant

RoadRunner meep meep
Mar 26, 2009
4,847
2
Bristol
Strange, so bill what do you think the next plan of action is? Is the lack of power down to fueling and timing ect?
 

rsmith

Robbie
Apr 28, 2004
2,797
1
Tipperary, Ireland
I beg to differ - its a fine line robert, some pull more from minimal additional, some dont... Its not a one for all adjustment, logging and adjusting etc etc

I am aware its not a one for all, i have just spent the few weeks testing different timing at different ranges on my map for my car, we found that for instance as an example at 6k rpm, the ECU pulled 6* timing, but if we adjusted to run 1* less timing at 6K the ECU only pulled 3* of timing, so instead of lossing the full 6* of timing we only lost 4*, -1* we took away and 3* the ECU pulled, as you are aware 2* of effective timing on the top end could mean 10hp.

I would not be happy with 6* timing pull on the top end, but as said this is only a syptom on Sams car and not the cause.

Why would it take 8% fueling away, inaccurate airflow reading, MAF! leak.According to that the ECU is trying to lean the AFR out as its seeing either to much fuel or the airflow is not as reported and lambda sensor is seeing this and trying to compensate, that said +-10 could in theory be considering normal operating parameters, my guess it is that value with continue change as Sam already did a ECU reset and the values are Multiplicative.

Somethings funky alright
 
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sambryant

RoadRunner meep meep
Mar 26, 2009
4,847
2
Bristol
Maf has run consistant figures from new and its not very old. I have done leak tests and i dont have any. New injector seals fitted last week. Im all out of ideas. One thing to consider, i do have a leak from the mbc at 1.4 bar, bill if you remember i was hitting 2 bar before the mbc was fitted. Correct me if i wrong but that means a 0.6 bar leak, quite alot, could this not help things.
 

sambryant

RoadRunner meep meep
Mar 26, 2009
4,847
2
Bristol
bill, robbie, anyone got any ideas into what i need to do next. new 4bar fpr? new injectors? fueling adjustments? im really stuck and my car is way down on power and i hate driving it like this :(
i dont get how 2 weeks ago it was running at its best and now its never felt so flat.
 

ibizacupra

Jack-RIP my little Friend
Jul 25, 2001
31,333
19
glos.uk
Maf has run consistant figures from new and its not very old. I have done leak tests and i dont have any. New injector seals fitted last week. Im all out of ideas. One thing to consider, i do have a leak from the mbc at 1.4 bar, bill if you remember i was hitting 2 bar before the mbc was fitted. Correct me if i wrong but that means a 0.6 bar leak, quite alot, could this not help things.

eh?
I dont get what you mean by 0.6bar leak??

mbc bleeds air back into the intake to control the spike,. there is no leak from mbc.
 

ibizacupra

Jack-RIP my little Friend
Jul 25, 2001
31,333
19
glos.uk
bill, robbie, anyone got any ideas into what i need to do next. new 4bar fpr? new injectors? fueling adjustments? im really stuck and my car is way down on power and i hate driving it like this :(
i dont get how 2 weeks ago it was running at its best and now its never felt so flat.

forum diagnosis I cannot do any more sam-sorry, it needs looking at and logging on dyno to compare to before

leaky dv? sticking...... other leaks.. an over reading maf (it happens occasionally)
 
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