Handling/Cornering Question - Track driving the LEON

[Faceless]

Hi guys,

Hopefully those that take their Leons on the track can help with this. I've had a couple of Track sessions now in the Leon, and would appreciate feedback on the following characteristic...

I'm finding under fast cornering, the rear end begins to feel quite vague/light.
If I then dab the brakes at all, I'm even more concerned the car might spin out.

I'd appreciate feedback on what might be the cause of this - plus what handling modification(s) would help keep it more planted?

The car is sitting on Eibach Sportlines.

A few thoughts on this include...

Coilovers / stiffer suspension setup?
WALK Kit ?
Rear ARB ?
Better rear tyres!?

Which ONE of the above might offer a noticable improvement, to start?

Note this isnt a typical boy racer, want to go faster through the country lanes / over roundabouts question - its a genuine question on the cars handling. Cheers.

 

[Bruce GT3]

Drop the rear tyre pressure by a couple of psi.....

 

[jimbo_h]

don't dab the brakes, you will only make it worse. A slight lift if absolutely necessary (straight line braking is )

I’ve got a stiffer rear ARB/coilies on at the mo’ and haven’t experienced any rear end vagueness. All of the parts you’ve listed will help, just depends on how much u wanna spend

 

[Faceless]

Thankyou for your replies.

I've also been following your Threads Jimbo, on your track experiences too, so nice to read from those with actual experiences of driving the Leon in similar events/conditions....

Out of the above then, which do you think to be the best first upgrade (regardless of cost)?
In price order anyway, Id rate them (cheapest to most expensive)...

ARB.
WALK.
Coilovers.

^ Think the above is also in the right order for complexity to fit too!?

 

[Ansell]

Hi. I have the same problem. Fitted weitec 40/40 springs. S3 RARB. 13mm spacers on rear wheels. Still losing back end far too easily. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Ansell]

Sorry weitec

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[JonnyF]

What are you's doing to loose the rear end???

I'd mine on track and it was full of understeer, have you crap tyres on the rear?

I'm looking into how to get better front end grip.

 

[jimbo_h]

What are you's doing to loose the rear end???

I'd mine on track and it was full of understeer, have you crap tyres on the rear?

I'm looking into how to get better front end grip.

jonny you'd definitely benefit from a stiffer rear ARB

 

[Faceless]

jonny you'd definitely benefit from a stiffer rear ARB

Would the Whiteline RARB cater to this, as it offers 3 settings?

What was I doing to lose the rear end?
Nothing - apart from entering progressively sharp corner(s) at speed... perhaps Im actually driving to the edge of the cars abilities, simple as.

Hence the need to improve the "standard" handling (apart from my Sportlines) with the items I mentioned before.

 

[jimbo_h]

Thankyou for your replies.

I've also been following your Threads Jimbo, on your track experiences too, so nice to read from those with actual experiences of driving the Leon in similar events/conditions....

Out of the above then, which do you think to be the best first upgrade (regardless of cost)?
In price order anyway, Id rate them (cheapest to most expensive)...

ARB.
WALK.
Coilovers.

^ Think the above is also in the right order for complexity to fit too!?

well the best is gotta be a set of real good coilovers (KW V3s??), wish I'd spent a bit more on mine TBF

In terms of price ranking you're spot on. The RARB and WALK are very simliar in terms of price and fitting.

If you want to go further then a set of track day tyres and wheels (next on my list).

I've been looking at these

http://www.ears.co.uk/p3292/225/40-18-Maxsport-RB5-New-Competition-Rally-Tyre/product_info.html

scoured the 'net for reviews on maxsport and they're mixed, some say they're poo, some say they're great

and these

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3317874.htm

There seem to be quite a few for sale here so will probably call 'em up and see what they say

 

[jimbo_h]

Would the Whiteline RARB cater to this, as it offers 3 settings?

What was I doing to lose the rear end?
Nothing - apart from entering progressively sharp corner(s) at speed... perhaps Im actually driving to the edge of the cars abilities, simple as.

Hence the need to improve the "standard" handling (apart from my Sportlines) with the items I mentioned before.

are you on the brakes while entering the corner?

 

[JonnyF]

jonny you'd definitely benefit from a stiffer rear ARB

Does it give more cornering grip though? I do understand that it will give better turn in but I thought that it did away with a bit of grip on a long fast corner.

On a fast corner the Leon at the limit - understeering is 10mph slower than my Focus RS was and at that the FRS wasn't at the limit. It did roll but that doesn't bother me as long as it sticks.

 

[jon-tfsi]

A stiffer Rear ARB will make the back end even looser!

A stiff front ARB will encourage understeer

The Mk2 Leon usually suffers from understeer making the uprated Rear ARB a good mod, giving better turn in and reducing understeer.

If the back end is loose i would be looking at geometry or tyres first.

 

[CupraR1]

Couple of bags of sand in ya boot. You should enter the corner at the correct speed then drive through corner but never touch the brakes

 

[JonnyF]

I think I'll try more front camber first and work from there and if I'm still not happy I'll go for a rarb, I'll do the front bushes as well.

 

[Poverty]

Nothing wrong with braking into a sweeping bend or the like. The ass end will always get a bit light under heavy braking and feel like its stepping out.

 

[CupraR1]

Depends which driving style, Touring car, brake heavy into corner and drive through controlled or Rally style in too fast and scrub off the speed. For road it would have to be Touring car or like you say the back end/front end could step out etc. A Bike would never brake into a sweeping bend because you would see the results in the wall or oncoming car, you have to brake in a straight line same as car unless you are Sebastien Loeb. lol

 

[Faceless]

Great feedback, providing plenty to think about.

I might brake a little in the bend just due to the fact I'm worried the back end is about to slip out. I know, not the best time to be on the brakes, if taking a progressive corner, but it is only a dab.

To note, in the wet, the back end feels alot worse (however the track only became wet on one occasion).

 

[CupraR1]

It’s a balance thing when you brake, your nose dives and the arse end of the car lifts last thing you want when potentially a truck (On the road) has just dropped some diesel. My advice is car set up before bend then accelerate through corner will = greater exit speed and less chance of a spin

While the geometric racing line is faster than the natural line of the road, there is still a faster technique for most corners. The technique is called using a late apex. By delaying the turn-in point, and beginning the turn with a slightly sharper bend, the car can be aimed to apex later than the geometric apex point. This straightens out the second part of the turn, allowing the driver to apply the accelerator earlier.

The car will have to slow down a little more at the turn in phase, but exit speed will be higher. That exit speed gives the driver that much more speed on the straight which will result in lower lap times overall.

This approach works for corners which require hard accelerating cornering out of them, which will be most of them. However, there are many types of corners, and combinations of corners which require some analysis to understand the best approach. Along the right are small figures of corner examples.

Slower In = Faster Out

 

[CupraR1]

Have a look here at number 7 the racing line, check all the braking points.

http://www.club100.co.uk/drivers_guide.htm