Discs overheating!!!

angel_23

Active Member
Sep 20, 2011
61
2
Swansea
Hi everyone need some help. Got a Seat Leon FR 1.8 20v t, petrol not diesel, 2005. Had the front wheel bearings changed in a garage and he used a blowtorch to get the old ones out then put the new ones in. Changed the rear ones myself. Since then the discs are getting so hot can't touch them. Rear wheels turning freely but front are not, seem to be dragging. Tried removing the brakes on garage advice but still doing it without the brakes on. Any ideas as to what can be causing this? Can't drive the car as the discs get too hot and don't want to warp them.

Thanks,

Angel.
 

747_727

Active Member
Apr 2, 2012
1,113
2
Essex
Try removing the pads and file Down the edges of pass where they sit in the carrier also clear the carrier And re assemble with copper grease. My rear pads ceased up the discs to get very hot.
 

BenG

Ben
Oct 26, 2011
484
0
Cove Bay, Aberdeen
If the hubs are still dragging with the brakes removed (i.e: caliper / disc removed) I suspect the wheel bearings have been damaged during installation. Certainly, the fact you say a blowtorch was used to install the bearings, not just remove then, makes me suspect the bearings were damaged on installation.

Excessive heat used to install a bearing can soften the steel. This can hapen at relatively low temperatures (over ~120°C) as bearing steels are very high strength and so are tempered at low temperatures.

Also, if there was too much interference fit when the new bearings were installed they could be binding. If the bearing fails it could be dangerous, so if the wheels are still dragging binding with the brakes removed I strongly suspect the bearings are f*cked and you should drive carefully to the nearest garage that knows what they are doing to get them replaced (properly)!
 

angel_23

Active Member
Sep 20, 2011
61
2
Swansea
If the hubs are still dragging with the brakes removed (i.e: caliper / disc removed) I suspect the wheel bearings have been damaged during installation. Certainly, the fact you say a blowtorch was used to install the bearings, not just remove then, makes me suspect the bearings were damaged on installation.

Excessive heat used to install a bearing can soften the steel. This can hapen at relatively low temperatures (over ~120°C) as bearing steels are very high strength and so are tempered at low temperatures.

Also, if there was too much interference fit when the new bearings were installed they could be binding. If the bearing fails it could be dangerous, so if the wheels are still dragging binding with the brakes removed I strongly suspect the bearings are f*cked and you should drive carefully to the nearest garage that knows what they are doing to get them replaced (properly)!

Thanks for that, that is exactly what we suspected. They didn't use the blowtorch to install the bearings but didn't give enough time for the hub carrier to cool before installing the new bearings. They used the blowtorch to remove the old bearings as they were stuck on. So another set of new bearings it is then, just ordered them. Just hope they haven't damaged the hub carrier!!

Angel
 

angel_23

Active Member
Sep 20, 2011
61
2
Swansea
OK So got one of the front hubs off with bearing in place, the disc is not turning freely like a bicycle wheel, its dragging, so took it to the garage who put the front bearings in and he said it's ok, should be like that as you got to think that when the driveshaft is in place it will turn like that.........duh it's off the car the driveshaft is not on it!!!!! The other side has actually collapsed and he says its ok!!!!!!! Bloody idiot, sure he thinks we are thick [:@]

Just want to clarify........does anyone agree with this guy that the disc will drag when its on or off the car, not connected up with the driveshaft? Should it be turning freely like a bicycle wheel if its off the car? Doesn't this mean the front bearings are f***ed? The rear wheels, which hubby did himself by hand using hub puller tapped in with hammer, are turning freely like a bicycle wheel, so those bearings are ok!!! Wish he'd done the front ones himself now at least they would be ok!!

Drove the car 1.3 miles today and the front bearing collapsed and discs got so hot could have fried steaks on them!!! :wtf:

Angel
 

Pommeh

Active Member
Dec 5, 2012
145
1
He should be using a hot plate to install bearings not a blow torch, the bearing will heat unevenly. Bearings should only rotate roughly for a few turns initially by hand, this is down to the grease that is used in the bearing containing a crystalline formula to stop the bearings hitting the raceway in transit.

Take it apart and check the radial alignment of the bearing, if concentric it's is not maintained then the rotor pushes the pistons into their bores. That would be your brake drag....
 

angel_23

Active Member
Sep 20, 2011
61
2
Swansea
He should be using a hot plate to install bearings not a blow torch, the bearing will heat unevenly. Bearings should only rotate roughly for a few turns initially by hand, this is down to the grease that is used in the bearing containing a crystalline formula to stop the bearings hitting the raceway in transit.

Take it apart and check the radial alignment of the bearing, if concentric it's is not maintained then the rotor pushes the pistons into their bores. That would be your brake drag....

Hi Pommeh, so are you saying the front bearings are gone, we know one has collapsed today? When the hub with the bearing in was off the car there was nothing on it, it was just the hub and bearing. When it was taken to the garage the rotor would turn by hand but not spin freely and the guy said that's how it should be. Are you saying that's right or not?

Also the reason the brakes are sticking on according to the guy in the garage is because the handbrake lever is not hitting stop on the caliper. When you leave the handbrake down one side is hitting stop the other isn't. When you pull it up you can put your thumb in between the stop mechanism and where it actually stops on one side, the other side you can't. That side is the one that the disc is getting hottest. (Driver's side). He's saying the rear caliper has gone and is causing the discs to heat up as the ABS Sensor will tell all the brakes to stay on. Is he right? We've bought a caliper ready to replace so would be great if you could give us some info on that.

Can you also tell me if you know, do the bearing centre nuts have to be torqued as they weren't torqued on, he just tightened them? Hubby slackened both front nuts very slightly, just broke the hold and turned it back again by hand, not tight as they were skin tight and daughter drove it round the block and said it was driving much better. Could that be why the rear are getting so hot as they are skin tight too? Only way we can get at them is to take the wheel off to get at the cap which is a b*****d to get on. The guy also put grease in behind the cap where the nut is on the rear, should he have done that?

Thanks Angel :)
 
Last edited:

andycupra

status subject to change
I was always under the impression that the torque used was very important with wheel bearings.
I remember reading about a case when a young lad replaced his own rear bearings and overtightened them; a couple of days later they failed causing a crash in which he lost two of his friends.
A sad story.
 

BenG

Ben
Oct 26, 2011
484
0
Cove Bay, Aberdeen
The guy is a cretin who has trashed the bearings during installation and left your car in a dangerous condition, and is unwilling to admit he screwed up and take the blame.

Bearings are easily damaged by impacts, excessive interference fitting and contamination.

The bearing should turn smoothly and with a little seal drag but no more, assuming the bearing is separated from the driveshaft and the disc/caliper.

If not, there may be drag from the brake pads on the disc and from the differential as the driveshaft rotates the gears inside.
 

angel_23

Active Member
Sep 20, 2011
61
2
Swansea
The guy is a cretin who has trashed the bearings during installation and left your car in a dangerous condition, and is unwilling to admit he screwed up and take the blame.

Bearings are easily damaged by impacts, excessive interference fitting and contamination.

The bearing should turn smoothly and with a little seal drag but no more, assuming the bearing is separated from the driveshaft and the disc/caliper.

If not, there may be drag from the brake pads on the disc and from the differential as the driveshaft rotates the gears inside.

BenG you are so right, thanks for that. :thumbup: As you can see from previous posts the bearing is not turning smoothly even when it's off the car just in the hub!

Lying little B*****d as he is, the bearing on the passenger side collapsed yesterday when my daughter drove the car round the block!! 200 yards max. and could fry a steak on the discs they were so hot! Changing the rear calipers tomorrow as one is sticking on, the handbrake lever isn't coming back to stop unless you put your hand on it, but even then not all the way. Got to take the front hubs off now take them to another garage to have another new set of bearings fitted as it's too dangerous to drive now!! He should be paying for all this but as you said he won't admit he's done wrong. Hope Karma comes round and bites him on the arse! [:@]

Angel
 
Last edited:
Oct 15, 2013
926
0
Midhurst, West Sussex
I'd take him to trading standards if he's not willing to foot the bill or the local press etc

It's amazing what people are suddenly willing to do when their garage / name are in for potentially a bad name / time

I'd return to him, ask him to foot the bill else you'll be forced to take the matter further etc, Hopefully he'll do something to then help you out

Fingers crossed for you :)
 

waynedunn1234

Active Member
Aug 23, 2013
56
0
I was always under the impression that the torque used was very important with wheel bearings.
I remember reading about a case when a young lad replaced his own rear bearings and overtightened them; a couple of days later they failed causing a crash in which he lost two of his friends.
A sad story.

yes i can back you up with that i was i a car and the wheel bearings had been installed incorrectly causing the car i was in to crash lucky it wasn't bad but when you see the wheel going opersite way when your going round a corner.
 

angel_23

Active Member
Sep 20, 2011
61
2
Swansea
Hubs Warped???

Can anyone tell me if the front wheel hub where the front bearing sits would warp to the shape of the old bearing? Been told this is why we are having problems with the new bearing collapsing. Someone said the shaft will be damaged but someone else said it could be the actual hub itself, heat won't do it. As you can see from the above posts we've been told heat will do it. Getting really pissed off now, different reasons from different people, just want the car back on the road!!! :cry:

Are you supposed to compress the bearings onto the shaft or do they just slide on. We pulled one of the new ones off and it just slid off. When it was put back on it just slid on, is this right?
 

angel_23

Active Member
Sep 20, 2011
61
2
Swansea
Help!!!!!!

My hubby been all day today trying to get the hub and bearing off the car, even hitting it with a sledge hammer, won't budge! So obviously some major damage done because of the bearing binding to the shaft due to the heat used in replacing it. It has caused damage to the track rod end and the ball joint has gone, which were both also brand new parts. Since the new bearing was replaced the car has only done 20 miles and all this damage has occurred. The wheel is at an angle now too, undrivable. The whole side is practically collapsed all because of that w****r that put heat to it. :mad:

We now need to get a new hub and shaft but due to the cost are looking for used parts but if we can't get them we will have to buy new which is going to cost around £400 as we can only get them from Seat Dealers. Luckily it's only the passenger side, the driver's side can be saved!

Our car is a Seat Leon FR 1.8 20v turbo, petrol not diesel, Black Magic, facelift model, 2005. As it is factory fitted with sports suspension can anyone tell me if the parts we need must be off a facelift model or can it be off a standard model Seat Leon? We need these parts urgently now so any help greatly appreciated. :)
 

Sprogpole

Active Member
Jul 20, 2012
360
1
Leicester
Why can you only get them from your Seat Dealer?

Try Euro Car parts or GSF, you don't have to go for OEM parts!
But if you must use OEM parts then TPS are normally cheaper than the dealer
 

angel_23

Active Member
Sep 20, 2011
61
2
Swansea
Play in CV Joint Spline??

Does anyone know if there should be "slight play" in the CV Joint Spline where it goes through the wheel hub? Bought new ones as have to replace everything on the left side and there is "slight play" in them. See the posts above for reason for replacement!!!! Changing both sides though so it will all be new and even. Seat Leon FR Mk1, 1.8 20v turbo 2005, petrol not diesel, Facelift Model, Black Magic :)
 

angel_23

Active Member
Sep 20, 2011
61
2
Swansea
Why can you only get them from your Seat Dealer?

Try Euro Car parts or GSF, you don't have to go for OEM parts!
But if you must use OEM parts then TPS are normally cheaper than the dealer

Prefer to put OEM on the car, tried TPS they not that much cheaper than Seat Dealers but save a bit.
 

angel_23

Active Member
Sep 20, 2011
61
2
Swansea
Play in Hub??

Bought new front bearing housings, bearings, hubs and CV joints. Hubby put the bearings in the housings and put the hubs on using a proper bearing puller kit, when he was tightening the hubs it stopped so to make sure they were tight he put a power bar on and tightened it as far as it would go. Only thing is the hubs appear to have a little play in them. Put the CV Joints in place and the movement stops, but they are turning properly. Can anyone tell me if this is right?

Also are the ABS Sensors supposed to be touching the hubs when they are put on or should there be a gap?

Seat Leon FR Mk1, 1.8 20v turbo, 2005, Petrol not diesel, Black Magic.
 

Pommeh

Active Member
Dec 5, 2012
145
1
Bought new front bearing housings, bearings, hubs and CV joints. Hubby put the bearings in the housings and put the hubs on using a proper bearing puller kit, when he was tightening the hubs it stopped so to make sure they were tight he put a power bar on and tightened it as far as it would go. Only thing is the hubs appear to have a little play in them. Put the CV Joints in place and the movement stops, but they are turning properly. Can anyone tell me if this is right?

Also are the ABS Sensors supposed to be touching the hubs when they are put on or should there be a gap?

Seat Leon FR Mk1, 1.8 20v turbo, 2005, Petrol not diesel, Black Magic.

So it's not been torqued up to the factory setting rather just tightened until it wouldn't go any further? Have you tightened any of the screws and bolts to the correct torque setting and angle or just tightened them?

There is a specific process to tightening most hub nuts, it's not just a process of tightening it up, you should slacken it off, rotate and torque; then finally you would tighten with an angle.
 
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