Oil Filter cap not budging :(

[Israar]

Hey guys and gals!

Having hard time trying to get my oil filter cap off to replace my oil filter.

I've used various tools and the last one being one of these. I know this one isn't the most suitable with ours being a plastic cap but it proves that whoever did the last filter change on this really didn't pay attention to my oil filter cap or check their own manuals?

It states 25Nm (as to which I was told by Muttley before I'd even attempted this) and I've literally just used my own body weight to an extent to try and "crack open" the seal.

I was wondering whether my option of warming up the engine and trying to crack it open after a run would allow me more leeway in to cracking the seal? With the engine being warm would it allow more ease to removing the cap?

If not I'm going to have to take it to the damn garage to get it removed as I've nothing on me to actually open it other than that tool which I borrowed as the tool I bought from Muttley's suggestion was this which should be able to do this job with ease (given the cap was at the right Nm setting! )

Much love to you lot!

--Lee

 

[Bouncerbeater]

Are you talking the actual filter itself ?


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[Bouncerbeater]

If so, the butchers way of doing it will be hammering a big screwdriver through it and then you have lots of leverage. Of course, the risk of this method is if it doesn't work then you're well and truly fooked haha. Good luck mate


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[Israar]

Yeah, you know the cap that our filter fits in, I can't budge that so I can replace my oil filter

It's number 9 that I'm talking about in that picture mate...

--Lee

 

[Bouncerbeater]

Ah right, different on the diesel. Not sure what would work for that I'm afraid


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[Israar]

I'd rather no doing the butchers method unless I have a cap spare lmfao! As I need the car to get to and from work, might just buy a spare cap from Dave at Sere just in case anyway if I can't remove it if warming the engine up doesn't help?

At least then I'll have more peace of mind!

--Lee

 

[Fmxvxx]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-3417-...-A3-A4-VW-Golf-Polo-1-4-1-6-etc-/231208941883

That is the genuine tool that a garage would use if the filter housing wont come off with a bar and that socket chances are you will need to ruin the housing to remove it.

 

[L16YDW]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Large-oil-fuel-filter-removal-wrench-strap-upto-300mm-diameter-filters-tool-/181412715066?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a3d0a5a3a

This and an adapter to take it to 1/2" then a breaker bar will shift it. You need some decent leverage!

 

[verbal_kint]

Warming the engine will help.

I take it you've tried a chain wrap wrench and a bmf bar on it.

But if that didn't work I doubt the option of carefully using a cold chisel to knock it around will either.

Get a new cap in then get destroying might be your last resort.

Or drive it a dealer and ask a mechanic to use their special tool as Fmxvxx informed.

Love these older cars, bit by bit we find the "love" of the previous owner and make it right.

 

[Israar]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-3417-...-A3-A4-VW-Golf-Polo-1-4-1-6-etc-/231208941883

That is the genuine tool that a garage would use if the filter housing wont come off with a bar and that socket chances are you will need to ruin the housing to remove it.

Thanks for the link mate, that's similar to the one I have though I had no luck with it, the seal is tighter than a nuns

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Large-oil-fuel-filter-removal-wrench-strap-upto-300mm-diameter-filters-tool-/181412715066?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a3d0a5a3a

This and an adapter to take it to 1/2" then a breaker bar will shift it. You need some decent leverage!

Not tried one of these, though I believe you're more than likely right with the leverage, my leverage is pretty crap as I don't have an extender bar to allow more force, I'm not weak but I have to say that I definitely could do with an extender bar to break the seal on this!

Warming the engine will help.

I take it you've tried a chain wrap wrench and a bmf bar on it.

But if that didn't work I doubt the option of carefully using a cold chisel to knock it around will either.

Get a new cap in then get destroying might be your last resort.

Or drive it a dealer and ask a mechanic to use their special tool as Fmxvxx informed.

Love these older cars, bit by bit we find the "love" of the previous owner and make it right.

Just done a 4th gear run down the M5 to Kidderminster and back, was around 3k revs all the time and temp went no higher than 92C~ idled the car 2mins 30secs before turning off like then tried to remove the cap, was still as tight as it was cold.

I believe my trouble is that of what L16YDW said above with the leverage, I've not tried a chain wrap wrench due to not having one and worried of the damaged that could happen to the plastic cap mate. I'm taking it a bmf bar is an extender bar?

I can't go destroying the cap until I have a spare one haha, so what I have in mind at the minute is visiting a garage (any for that mind) that can just crack open the seal for me then I'm laughing though the chances of a garage doing this for me is probably slim as they'd most likely want to do the work themselves to be paid for it. So might be cheeky going this route haha!

My other alternative is to get one of my work mates to try cracking the seal for me as he probably has an extender bar at his (he does a lot of work on cars and knows his stuff) reason for this is I can honestly say he's much stronger than I am haha! Though I'd have to wait until tomorrow at work as he's on nights with me and I'm not in tonight due to booking my long weekend off

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions guy, really really appreciate this! Much love!

--Lee

 

[verbal_kint]

Leverage will be the key and if you've ever played Doom the best weapon is the BMFG - Big Motha F!!!!!! Gun

Just looking at your picture and I have the ASV engine but the cap is different and sure it's metal, used the chain wrench on it. I need to check in the morning.

 

[Fmxvxx]

The Genuine doesn't flex like the cheaper after market ones and comes in 1/2 sq drive allowing much more torque transfer along with less torque lost due to flexing of the socket bit pricey but it works.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-Br...434?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4aec538512

With this bar it'll come off

Or
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-AK...656?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2c9d2d92e0

If you want more length.

 

[Israar]

Leverage will be the key and if you've ever played Doom the best weapon is the BMFG - Big Motha F!!!!!! Gun

Just looking at your picture and I have the ASV engine but the cap is different and sure it's metal, used the chain wrench on it. I need to check in the morning.

Mate, how the hell that never crossed my mind is unreal hahahaha! I should have known better!

That's not a picture of mine, I'm sure it's an old picture of Muttleys, though mine is pretty much identical. Mine is an ASV engine indeed too haha!

Here's a picture of mine though mate

Thanks mate, mines definitely not metal though, unless you had your changed?

The Genuine doesn't flex like the cheaper after market ones and comes in 1/2 sq drive allowing much more torque transfer along with less torque lost due to flexing of the socket bit pricey but it works.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-Br...434?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4aec538512

With this bar it'll come off

Or
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-AK...656?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2c9d2d92e0

If you want more length.

Sounds promising haha!

What I'll do, I'll speak to my mate to see if he has an extender bar, if not I'll purchase these two, though I doubt I'll need anything longer than the 600mm bar, you'd get more than enough pressure with one of those!

Again, thank you so much for getting back to me guys, much appreciated!

Just want this old oil filter out asap with the new oil in there!

--Lee

 

[Muttley]

Get a new cap first, as it is most likely that you will damage the old one beyond repair in getting it off, if it is that badly stuck.

I'm a bit confused by the links above. Chain wrench and strap wrenches are ok for canister filters where you have a lot of metal to grab hold of and it doesn't matter if you bend it, there's a new one waiting to go on. The filter cap is relatively narrow, and *must not* be damaged. It also has a long narrow tube attached, going down the center of the filter, which could be difficult to get out if you did smash the cap. Not to mention the fact that you would need to be certain that there were no bits of plastic debris left in the filter cup.

The cap is definitely plastic, or at least every one that I've ever seen is plastic.

It shouldn't need a lot of leverage, just the correct cup wrench tool (76/14 i.e. 76mm diameter, 14 sides) which will fit properly and transfer all the torque evenly round the cap. Like this one from Halfords.

To avoid this happening again, the correct tightening torque is 25Nm for the cap. Which you can't apply with a chain wrench or strap wrench.

 

[MOZ_LC_TDI]

It sounds like whoever last did the filter way over tightened it. I had this same problem on my old Golf VR6 and ended up taking it to a garage where they used a big breaker bar and still struggled.

My filter on my leon is just like yours with a black plastic cap.

My personal view is to forget the strap or chain method - if its that tight then it will just slip riund and probably round off the flat edges - these are good for normal canister filters but not that good for the top off internal paper filter types.

I recon your only way is to keep using the tool you have (or the heavier duty version as shown further up in the thread) so that it fits properly over the flats (and doesn't round) - it ideally wants to cover as much of the cap as possible and be reasonably snug to maximise the surface area coverage (as if its too high up and only covers 1cm or so it may slip off and round the flats )and then a big bar to be able to get the leverage on.

Then be careful when you refit it not to over tighten.

Good luck
Moz

 

[Israar]

Get a new cap first, as it is most likely that you will damage the old one beyond repair in getting it off, if it is that badly stuck.

I'm a bit confused by the links above. Chain wrench and strap wrenches are ok for canister filters where you have a lot of metal to grab hold of and it doesn't matter if you bend it, there's a new one waiting to go on. The filter cap is relatively narrow, and *must not* be damaged. It also has a long narrow tube attached, going down the center of the filter, which could be difficult to get out if you did smash the cap. Not to mention the fact that you would need to be certain that there were no bits of plastic debris left in the filter cup.

The cap is definitely plastic, or at least every one that I've ever seen is plastic.

It shouldn't need a lot of leverage, just the correct cup wrench tool (76/14 i.e. 76mm diameter, 14 sides) which will fit properly and transfer all the torque evenly round the cap. Like this one from Halfords.

To avoid this happening again, the correct tightening torque is 25Nm for the cap. Which you can't apply with a chain wrench or strap wrench.

Cheers Muttley mate, I think I will wait for Dave to come back from his holiday then order a new cap from him, in the mean time I think I'll order the 600 mm bar and the deeper cup wrench as the one I ordered which you told me about only sits on by a little bit, a cm at most maybe?

Mines definitely plastic and having tried the draper tool I linked above has definitely dug in the sides but no enough to puncture, just enough to show that it's not going to do anything good to it, I'll take a picture tomorrow to show.

When I get this sorted, I'm definitely sticking to the 25Nm reference as with how tight this is it's ridiculous.

It sounds like whoever last did the filter way over tightened it. I had this same problem on my old Golf VR6 and ended up taking it to a garage where they used a big breaker bar and still struggled.

My filter on my leon is just like yours with a black plastic cap.

My personal view is to forget the strap or chain method - if its that tight then it will just slip riund and probably round off the flat edges - these are good for normal canister filters but not that good for the top off internal paper filter types.

I recon your only way is to keep using the tool you have (or the heavier duty version as shown further up in the thread) so that it fits properly over the flats (and doesn't round) - it ideally wants to cover as much of the cap as possible and be reasonably snug to maximise the surface area coverage (as if its too high up and only covers 1cm or so it may slip off and round the flats )and then a big bar to be able to get the leverage on.

Then be careful when you refit it not to over tighten.

Good luck
Moz

Yeah, I even had my torque wrench set to 50Nm with the cup wrench Muttley mentioned and it did nothing but click, so it's well over twice the recommended tightening.

I'm going to get the 600 mm bar and the cup wrench Fmxvxx posted links to, as that one is the same but looks deeper than the cup wrench I have. At least then I can crack it open and with waiting for Dave to return to Sere from holiday I'll be having myself a new cap ready to replace this one with which will be set right not like this current one.

As verbal_kint said above

Love these older cars, bit by bit we find the "love" of the previous owner and make it right.

=)

--Lee

 

[ben450]

The retard that tightened it previously shouldn't be allowed anymore cars lol

 

[MOZ_LC_TDI]

Agreed, but to be fair a little, I suspect it will take more than 25Nm to crack off a cap torqued up to 25Nm as there is a fair bit of surface area of plastic cap thread to canister mating and the compression of the O ring seal then a years thermal cycling between filter changes. Which I suspect make it tighter than the close up torque. They always seem tighter when removing, never the less, if it's as stuck as yours seems to be, it must have been over tightened.

Good luck, a deeper tool and a big bar and I'm sure you will beat it.
Moz

 

[Israar]

Haha Ben, yeah I agree and it reminds me of a few years ago, I was watching a lad change his front passenger tyre for his spare, I took the bolts on for him as he couldn't undo the bolts by hand, said it was hurting his hands so I said aye no worries.

I asked him if he wanted me to do the bolts for him when he swapped the tyres and he said no he would be fine, so I said sure no worries, I was that shocked I just walked off without saying anything, he put the bolts on, and tightened them as tight as he could, he then placed the wheel bar and STOOD on top of it to bounce it tight, no wonder he couldn't get the bolts off if that's what he did previously hahaha!

--Lee

 

[Muttley]

I've never had any trouble using the Halfords-style pressed steel cup wrench, but then I've never had to use a big breaker bar on the filter cap either. The cap has a deep set of threads that engage in the filter holder, but the seal is made by the O-ring (that should come in the kit with the filter - three O-rings altogether, two small ones for the stalk inside the plastic cap) so tightening it up beyond 25Nm (which is not much more than hand tight) doesn't give you a better seal... You have to wonder where some of these guys get their ideas from.

The O-ring is not compressed when you tighten up the cap, it sits inside the cylindrical filter holder, the torque setting is just to make sure the cap does not undo itself.

Perhaps the previous owner did it up to 25 ft-lb? But even that is only about 35 Nm, and shouldn't result in this kind of trouble.

I would try increasing the undoing torque with the cup wrench you have. It should not cam off the lid, it fits all the way round so there should be nothing to make it come off other than flex of the steel - and if you get to that point, it is a long way overdone.