VW massaging emission figures

Dave_Exeo

Active Member
Mar 11, 2015
74
0
N.Wales
My 60 reg 143 ST is affected by having the EA189 engine.

Not sure exactly how the defeat routine (it's not a device as it's part of the ECU firmware) works, but likely underfuel when rear wheels are stationary to lean up the mixture.

ECUs are simply pulling in data from sensors - wheel speed, engine load, throttle position, manifold vacuum, fuel temperature, pressure etc. etc. and enables each injector to fire for x duration and pressure at z time, so putting in the logic of an anomaly (rear wheels stationary) and underfueling would not be that hard to do...

I have a bluefin map on my Exeo (very pleased with it) and have the option to remove it via the handset.

The question I do have, I guess for bluefin, is will the map still apply or will I have to buy a new one?

I.e take the bluefin map off, reverting to standard, then try and re-apply the bluefin, but the map removed will no longer be the same so might trigger a checksum error and not re-apply the map - dang.

I feel a mail to Bluefin customer services coming on.

Its gotta be what they are planning on doing to "fix" the problem, but will leave us out of pocket in terms of power.

I too have a remap from BHP-UK though. The dealer whos a mate of mine is gonna take the map off before it goes in so its back to standard. But hes confirmed the old remap wont go back on.

see if Bluefin will rewrite you a new map at a discounted price? But we will never get the same power figures again
 

adsfisher

Active Member
Sep 6, 2015
33
1
Banbridge, Northern Ireland
Its gotta be what they are planning on doing to "fix" the problem, but will leave us out of pocket in terms of power.

I too have a remap from BHP-UK though. The dealer whos a mate of mine is gonna take the map off before it goes in so its back to standard. But hes confirmed the old remap wont go back on.

see if Bluefin will rewrite you a new map at a discounted price? But we will never get the same power figures again
If it is true we won't have the same power figures after they can keep their grubby paws off my baby.......I hope they open up what is actually going to be happening.

Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk
 

Gizmo98

Active Member
Jun 19, 2015
86
0
Seat uk have just been on the phone
They have took my details and will pass them onto donnellys in dungannon,have to ring donnellys tomorrow and confirm it also

Also just checked the Leon - 2012,1.6 tdi ......it's also affected :(
 

cmgreen

Newbie
Jan 31, 2006
38
0
I had a call from Seat last night, rang them back this morning, they just wanted to confirm there will be a fix etc, so i thought i would tell them of my experience at the weekend, i went along to a BMW garage and asked for a trade in on my car, the guy went away and came back sorry sir we can't trade it in as its affects by the emissions scandal. So in a nutshell its worthless until the fix..... The girl said I will get a manager to call you back, aint herd nowt yet, will wait a few days and see what happens..... mega pissed!
 

CharlySkunkweed

Active Member
Aug 10, 2014
203
0
Northern Ireland
I had a call from Seat last night, rang them back this morning, they just wanted to confirm there will be a fix etc, so i thought i would tell them of my experience at the weekend, i went along to a BMW garage and asked for a trade in on my car, the guy went away and came back sorry sir we can't trade it in as its affects by the emissions scandal. So in a nutshell its worthless until the fix..... The girl said I will get a manager to call you back, aint herd nowt yet, will wait a few days and see what happens..... mega pissed!

see thats the problem , some people are saying "what are you worried about , why do you need compensation etc etc" but there will always be some sort of doubt surrounding the cars affected . Future buyers will ask if it's been fixed but depending on their view that'll be a good thing (it's fixed) or a bad thing (hp will be down and MPG will be worse).
even car dealers are erring on the side of caution and the value of the cars are dropping wether there's a real problem or not !
If I had a choice I'd swap it for the petrol equivalent, but that won't happen. I reckon they'd maybe do a deal (trade in) for a new petrol FR but Im not willing to buy new.
 

Gizmo98

Active Member
Jun 19, 2015
86
0
Your just feeling the pressure from fellow RMS'ers to go to petrol Charlie lol
 

Balddee2

Active Member
Oct 10, 2009
175
0
Totally agree, i think they'll have to offer some form of compensation especially if the software change has an effect on either performance and or mpg. I can honestly say if the change drops the bhp by anything like 10 or more that i wouldnt have bought the car in the 1st place (143 ST Sport Tech) as i had my doubts that 143 bhp would be enough let alone 130ish and thats before you factor in the hundreds of people ive apparently been polluting to death as ive been driving round!

Where are those bl88dy PPI compensation companies when you need them eh? They should be moving on and harrassing us with phone calls about 'have you ever owned a VW'!
 
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CharlySkunkweed

Active Member
Aug 10, 2014
203
0
Northern Ireland
Lol , they are reinforcing my doubts , let's put it that way !

I genuinely like the car in every way except the sound. At least petrol you can fire on a decat exhaust and an induction kit and it'll sound sweet , but diesel sounds crap no matter what. I was willing to give the DPF issues a by ball as if (or when) it ever give me bother it's getting removed . But if they start clamping down in this for MOT , and now this emissions thing just has me regretting ever even considering diesel.

Should have stuck with my good old 320bhp STi Impreza .
 

decadent

Active Member
Apr 1, 2012
421
1
Herts
i was pleasantly surprised to see my valuation on WBAC go up since last valuation in feb (9600) to 10500. Not bad at this stage i guess.

 

decadent

Active Member
Apr 1, 2012
421
1
Herts
It's weird how some Exeo's have the device and others do not.

Surely the ones that are not affected (even though they are seemingly the same car with the same engine) are also producing the same Nox readings as the ones with the device during non-test mode and therefore would not pass the type approval emissions test for the Exeo either.

If that's true then VW would need to fix all cars regardless on whether they have the device or not - the device was there to make the car pass the emssions test to gain approval; if it doesn't have it installed then it surely still wouldn't pass.

If that's not true and the only fix mooted is to reduce torque and power across the rev range then those cars without the device must have lower power and torque than the ones with the device. I haven't seen any claims that the 143/170 tdi lump has differing outputs within the Exeo so that can't be true either.

And if the ones without the device if by magic are able to produce Nox levels within type approval then why don't VW just remap all of the ones with the device with their maps so no body will be out of pocket so to speak. I don't buy that so my conclusion is that there are alot more than the 1.2m vw group cars in the UK identified with faulty emissions.
 

Mr Bigglesworth

Active Member
Dec 13, 2008
385
0
Herts
I'll be on the look out for the 211hp 2.0 tfsi exeo estate in this car.

Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk

Rare indeed. I ended up going the 200 bhp version because none came up. I even kept an eye out after I got mine and still haven't seen one for sale in the last year or so!
 
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Riley TDi

Active Member
Jan 12, 2015
31
0
Cumbria
2011 Exeo 2.0 TDi SE Tech, just found out mine is also affected :cry:
I hope it doesn't alter the car when 'fixed', I really like it as it is.
 

njm

Active Member
Apr 29, 2014
14
0
Scotland
2011 Exeo 2.0 TDi SE Tech, just found out mine is also affected :cry:
I hope it doesn't alter the car when 'fixed', I really like it as it is.

Can not see the cars performing as they do now , i could get 60+mpg from my 143 when new but it was a bit flat power wise , after about 10k the fuel consumption dropped to 45-50 mpg but performance was stronger , i raised this with Seat at the time , A mate was a service manager for Seat at the time and did comment that i was not the first to notice this issue , were these cars running in defeat mode until a safe Mileage was covered ?
 

decadent

Active Member
Apr 1, 2012
421
1
Herts
I'd like to hear what the Exeo's without the device drive like - they must be pretty flat in comparison to a car with the device (assuming they are mapped to how a car with the device was supposed to be mapped all the time).
 

richdot

Active Member
Mar 5, 2015
123
0
Getting a phone call next couple of weeks they have my details.... see what happens. I won't be happy if the power will be reduced or the car will be more thirsty, suppose they won't be that clear as to what happens after.
 
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Jimrod

Active Member
Oct 10, 2014
61
0
I think people are jumping to conclusions a lot on this, not helped by lack of info from VW, hoping it'll gradually blow over I'm sure!

The defeat software does not affect how the cars drive. It only activates under test conditions, all our cars drive as they should.

The problem will ONLY affect us if our cars are detuned to the level of emissions the defeat software was designed to meet with no physical alterations, since this is for the US market it remains to be seen how it may or may not affect us in Europe. The "update" will likely just remove the cheat software and since all our cars are already in the market that'll probably be that.

Until VW tell us what the "fix" involves we just won't know, if indeed it is designed to bring all our cars down to the emissions levels tested in the US we'll all be shafted with performance definitely taking a hit, no way around the physics, look at all the 70's 5.0 V8's in the states pumping out 120bhp due to being strangled...
 
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