1.2 FR Error Codes

ash1872

Active Member
Aug 23, 2012
25
0
Hi

My 62 plate Ibiza FR is going in to limp mode with the engine management light also displaying. The following errors are coming back:

6229 / error code org: P0088000
fuel system pressure
pressure too high

11824 / error code org: P334B00
boost pressure regulator
incorrect function

16715 / error code org: P065300
reference voltage, sensor B
signal too high

Any ideas as to what's causing this?

Thanks in advance.
 

BF95

Active Member
Oct 15, 2013
442
0
Coventry
Possibly turbo fault codes, turbo actuator might be sticking but if it's electronic then it'll be a new tutbo

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
 

ash1872

Active Member
Aug 23, 2012
25
0
Possibly turbo fault codes, turbo actuator might be sticking but if it's electronic then it'll be a new tutbo

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

Hi

Why would an electronic actuator mean it's a new turbo?
 

BF95

Active Member
Oct 15, 2013
442
0
Coventry
You can't get them separately it's all one unit and if it's sending the wrong signals then the actuator won't work properly

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
 

ash1872

Active Member
Aug 23, 2012
25
0
You can't get them separately it's all one unit and if it's sending the wrong signals then the actuator won't work properly

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

The garage (not Seat) has managed to order the actuator and as far as I'm aware it's an electronic one?
 

BF95

Active Member
Oct 15, 2013
442
0
Coventry
Might be different to the tdi turbos, I had assumed they were similar, it's most likely the actuator sticking

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
 

VeeFource

Active Member
Dec 5, 2014
126
4
P334B is a mechanical malfunction of the turbo actuator which is more likely to be sticking turbo vanes than an issue with the actuator itself. Each actuator has to be calibrated to the turbo so unless they're a specialist turbo rebuilder, then the actuator won't be mapped to the turbo properly.
 
Feb 8, 2011
743
1
Each actuator has to be calibrated to the turbo so unless they're a specialist turbo rebuilder, then the actuator won't be mapped to the turbo properly.

Why is that? The actuator, V465, controls the wastegate and the manifold pressure is monitored by G31. Surely then the ECU will adjust the wastegate until the desired pressure is reached and that can be done independently of the exact turbo characteristics. What's more some early cars had a shim added between the watstegate actuator and the turbo body but AFAIK no recalibration had to be done!
 
Last edited:

VeeFource

Active Member
Dec 5, 2014
126
4
Why is that? The actuator, V465, controls the wastegate and the manifold pressure is monitored by G31. Surely then the ECU will adjust the wastegate until the desired pressure is reached and that can be done independently of the exact turbo characteristics. What's more some early cars had a shim added between the watstegate actuator and the turbo body but AFAIK no recalibration had to be done!

The actuator is electronic on this engine, it doesn't have a vacuum operated waste gate. There are two mechanical variables on a VNT turbo; the vane angles and the spool speed, both of which are subject to tolerances that cause them to behave differently from one turbo/actuator combo to another. These then have to work in an environment of yet more variables, such as pressure, flow and temperature. The actuator has to be calibrated to the turbo so the ECU can accurately work out what the variables are to obtain the desired output. This is especially true when the turbo is running dynamically, for example if you put your foot down the vanes are moved to guide the air onto the turbine to bring it up to speed as quickly as possible. But if this is done excessively due to say, your engine running at high rpm which requires more flow, then you can overspeed and damage your turbo.

The TPI for the shim recall included a software update to recalibrate the new actuator position to maintain correct actuator to turbo calibration.

Here's some further info which I posted on a previous thread:

I've just experienced the EPC fault on our 2011 1.2 TSI Ibiza. Having done a fair bit of research there are two fault conditions you can get with the Mahle rotary electronic actuator (REA), most commonly a P334B mechanical malfunction which shows itself when driving and particularly lifting off after heavy acceleration. The second is a P334A electrical malfunction which shows itself on startup, so I'd be willing to bet you had the former.

As I understand it, the mechanical error is given when the REA finds fault with the turbo, i.e. sticking VNT due to carbon build up. This error was also very prominent with pre 2012 cars as they had a design flaw due to VW not doing their tolerance stacks properly. This was fixed under a TPI by fitting a 2mm shim to move the actuator (a metal disc that can be seen sandwiched between the actuator and the turbo mounting bracket) and a software update. With the OPs car being a 2012, it shouldn't have had this latter issue and I imagine will have been fitted with the updated parts.

The electrical error is given when the REA finds fault with itself when there is a discrepency between the ECU's output to the motor and what it receives as an input from the position sensor inside the REA. This is the problem I've had on ours and is detailed in the "1.2 TSI P334A" thread which unfortunately no one's replied to, but then it is a much rarer fault as I've come to discover. Fortunately I've found a solution using just a tiny bit of glue, a spray of lube and some electrical contact solution which I'll detail in that thread once I get chance with some pics too.

SEAT's default move on either of these errors will be to replace the turbo + REA as a unit (circa £800-£1000 just for parts) as each REA is calibrated to it's corresponding turbo during manufacture. Good news if you're still under warranty as you'll get some shiney new bits that may even be freer of the gremlins which plagued the earlier versions. Not so good if you're not in warranty, especially as you can't replace just an actuator due to the calibration issue.
 
Feb 8, 2011
743
1
It is a wastegate turbo and the electronic actuator controls the wastegate. I don't believe a VNT turbo has a wastegate.

A good description can be found in SSP485 of 2010 which clearly shows how the actuator controls the wastegate.

Any calibration is done on the car after the actuator is replaced which, I believe, was done on mine when the shim was fitted using the original actuator.

SSP485 is a good read for anyone wanting to learn about the 1.2 TSi:-

You can get it from:-
http://www.yetiownersclub.co.uk/forum/ssp-485-for-12-tsi_topic545.html


"especially as you can't replace just an actuator due to the calibration issue"

Untrue - you can replace it! See SSP485 page 19.
 
Last edited:

VeeFource

Active Member
Dec 5, 2014
126
4
It is a wastegate turbo and the electronic actuator controls the wastegate. I don't believe a VNT turbo has a wastegate.

A good description can be found in SSP485 of 2010 which clearly shows how the actuator controls the wastegate.

Any calibration is done on the car after the actuator is replaced which, I believe, was done on mine when the shim was fitted using the original actuator.

SSP485 is a good read for anyone wanting to learn about the 1.2 TSi:-

You can get it from:-
http://www.yetiownersclub.co.uk/forum/ssp-485-for-12-tsi_topic545.html


"especially as you can't replace just an actuator due to the calibration issue"

Untrue - you can replace it! See SSP485 page 19.

That's an ace piece of information linked to there! Thanks for posting that.

I stand corrected, not sure where I read it was a VNT turbo rather than a wastegate one.

It's a shame the actuator can't be programmed using VCDS, or at least I couldn't find any info on being able to do that. Hopefully Ross-Tech are working on it!

I had an issue with mine which I managed to fix but can't be sure how long it'll last simply because these actuators seem quite cheaply made and prone to wear. My original thread on it is here: http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=426410
 
Feb 8, 2011
743
1
That's an ace piece of information linked to there! Thanks for posting that.

Yes it is. I had an earlier version for a VW but that was in German so the Audi version is an improvement as my German is rusty!

I had a look for actuators on the Web. Not a lot of luck but there were a few on Ebay - now ended - for about £75. Rather less than £800-£1000 for the whole works! I suppose you might be able to get a friendly dealer to do the calibration for you....

The Hall effect device tells the ECU the actuator position and my guess is that the calibration procedure maps the actuator position to boost pressure. It may be quicker (they say 80 ms) to just move the actuator with the aid of a map rather than monitor the boost pressure as the actuator is shifted. The words in the SSP don't explain it too well. Also if the actuator is crude and wear prone I wonder if the calibration ever needs to be re-done. It depends on where the wear is since the Hall device will compensate to some extent.

Also it's not clear just what part the throttle valve plays as you step on the gas. Again a guess is that at first the wastegate is open and so no boost. The throttle valve controls the amount of air going into the engine just like an engine with no turbo. When the valve is full open the wastegate starts to close and closes more as more torque is requested by the gas pedal. It wouldn't make much sense for the turbo to fight against a part closed throttle valve. The car is fully drive-by-wire of course.

I still think it's a brilliant engine even though mine may be subject to timing chain trouble...
Perhaps it will never happen as I don't do many miles......
 

gordonmcmorran

Active Member
Jun 4, 2016
15
0
Hello Networkman ,I am having problems with my Ibiza 1.2 tsi but the actuator on mine is for the waste gate but thought you could possibly help , but mine is coming back with mechanical malfunction. I have vcds but just really an novice but willing to listen and learn, anyway when I put actuator into test mode using vcds I hear a high pitched sound coming from the actuator and I cannot move rod out or in , but I think this is normal .
Yet when I start the engine and run M/Blocks with the engine running at idle approx. 850 Rpm the charge pressure specified value is 452.40 hpa and the actual value is 994.18 hpa this looks too far out to me.
at idle again reading coming from actuator position sensor specified position 71.12% and actual position is 41.623% again this seems to far out could you please give me your thoughts or am I totally wrong here.
Thanks in advance.
 
Feb 8, 2011
743
1
Hello Gordon,
I'm afraid that I'm unable to help very much. I've never actually fixed one of these things - all I know is learnt from that SSP I mentioned above. Anyway here are a few thioughts.

First of all are you able to get an error code with VCDS? - that might help. I don't know anything about VCDS myself.

I'd doubt that the turbo is doing anything much at idle. I'd expect the wastegate to be open and the idle speed to be controlled by the throttle valve. That being the case then the pressure would be atmospheric if measured on one side of the throttle valve and below atmospheric if measured on the other (engine) side. I don't know where your measurement is done.

When in test mode are you able to see the rod move as the actuator controls the wastegate. IIRC the rod is visible - my car is outside and it's a bit cold right now to go and look!

It seems hpa is hectopascals - about the same as millibars - so atmospheric pressure is about 1000 hpa and the 452 you quote is indeed less than atmospheric while your 994 is roughly atmospheric - interesting.

I wonder if the problem is with the pressure sensor or the wiring to it rather than the turbo. The throttle valve must be working or the idle speed would be uncontrolled which it clearly isn't. If the sensor were wrong then the ECU might assume a default value of atmospheric and put the car into a limp mode.

That's about it - good luck and let us know how you get on.
 

gordonmcmorran

Active Member
Jun 4, 2016
15
0
thanks for the reply much appreciated, the problem has me baffled I just don,t want to start throwing new parts at it, so going to a specialist tmrw who has access to seat dealer level diagnostics, I spoke to him on the phone this morning and he really sounds as if he knows what he is talking about so will keep you posted. cheers
 
Nimbus hosting - Based solely in the UK.