DTUK tuning box

abulafia

Active Member
Aug 5, 2016
52
1
Greece
Hey, ckpearce91 and garry - thanks for the feedback guys. I am reluctant to try +2 settings, because of all the negative coil-issues mentioned here. Mine is a 184 motor btw. I guess I will try the P1 +2 that you recommend Garry and see how it goes.

Thanks again...
 

abulafia

Active Member
Aug 5, 2016
52
1
Greece
Ignore Gary as his software isn't the same

Okay. Garry ignored (sorry Garry). :)

So I shouldn't go for the P1 +2? Or just start trying all and see what fits? Any ideas? Keep in mind things in Greece do get a bit hot at times (it's now 20:10 nightime and the temp is still 22C)...
 

Ckpearce91

Active Member
Feb 20, 2013
1,287
15
Milton Keynes
Okay. Garry ignored (sorry Garry). :)



So I shouldn't go for the P1 +2? Or just start trying all and see what fits? Any ideas? Keep in mind things in Greece do get a bit hot at times (it's now 20:10 nightime and the temp is still 22C)...



I'd just try +1 and then +2 and see how you get on. If the coil light comes up, just turn it back down. I drove mine to Croatia and it was 35C for the whole 2 weeks and never had any issues.
 

Havsgaard

Active Member
Jan 15, 2014
186
5
Denmark
Seems as my car has settled some more since i last tried map 3. Been running on map 3+2 for some days now with no indications of any trouble. Last i did run with map 3, a looong time ago, on map 3+1 there was some kind of uneasiness, but i dont seem to have that now, feels quite smooth and linear with lots of torque all the way. I haven't floored it yet or tried how it handles uphill acceleration, the uphill test usually enlightens any unpleasantness.
 

ActionScript

Active Member
Mar 10, 2016
95
1
Hopefully will be going to the dyno tomorrow morning. Plan on running stock, p2 and p2+1.

Will post figures.

:)

Is yours a 184 TDI?

If so, please, please do post the figures as I'd love to see them! Especially stock, P1+1 and P3+1. P2+1 if time prevails.

If you do go, I'd run another test other than P2 and P2+1, say P2+1 then P1/3+1.

Anyway, do post figures if you have it dyno'd :)
 

abulafia

Active Member
Aug 5, 2016
52
1
Greece
Is yours a 184 TDI?

If so, please, please do post the figures as I'd love to see them! Especially stock, P1+1 and P3+1. P2+1 if time prevails.

If you do go, I'd run another test other than P2 and P2+1, say P2+1 then P1/3+1.

Anyway, do post figures if you have it dyno'd :)

Yes, 184TDi :)

Right now I am running on p2, so I am in the mind to test that, and also check the p2+1 that Andrew (from DTUK) recommended for my car. I am afraid I won't have time to test more than that (I will also test stock), because I'll go in the morning and will then have to scurry off to work!!

Will post figures as soon as I can... :3rd:
 
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abulafia

Active Member
Aug 5, 2016
52
1
Greece
Okay...... ready for the dyno results?

We did 6 runs in total. The first two runs were in stock, the next two in p2 and the final two in p2+1. I didn't have the time to test p1 and p3, but at the end of the day I didn't really want to after the results I got.

The first diagram below is the comparison between the stock run (dotted lines) and the P2 (continuous lines):

25540v4.jpg


Well, well. A few remarks:

- The stock engine was measured at 191.1PS / 389.6Nm. That's about 4% higher than SEAT official figures, and no surprise really since VAG group tend to understate those figures. Two consecutive runs gave the exact same figures and curves, so all was well with the dyno too
- The engine does improve above the 3,500RPM mark, reaching a top figure of 212.2PS at about 4,100RPM. This finding is confirmed with the feel on the road - the engine revs faster and more freely at the top range, which helps in 0-60 stats. The same applies to the torque - above 3,500RPM the torque remains more or less level and delays to fade out (actually, the correct way to put it would be that the torque remains level and, as a result, the HP increases)
- Now for the negatives: At around 1,700RPM there is a huge spike which is followed by an immediate dip, which stabilizes again at around 2,400RPM. We have confirmed this in both runs (and it also happens in the p2+1 as we will see later). The dyno guys were asking me if I could feel the engine bogging down in that range; they were really surprised to see that. Of course this is consistent with problems such as coil lights and limp modes when the engine is pressed at low RPMs. It appears that the torque request is excessive, and the main ECU doesn't agree with something. It could be a torque limiter, a smoke limiter, who knows, but it's clear that the ECU interferes and cuts the fuel preventing the torque to reach the requested value. Perhaps there is a chance that this happens only in full throttle, and in 50% throttle (for example) the engine may feel more flexible and responsive. However this is the (negative) picture of the dyno result.
- As a result of the above, there is a torque peak figure of 422.7Nm @ 2,000RPM, but this is deceiving, since it only exists for a brief moment. In fact, the torque all the way until 3,500RPM is actually BELOW the stock engine. The exact same thing is true for the horsepower as well. Up until 3,500RPM the power output is actually lower than stock. I would say a more representative figure for the torque is around 375Nm (about 15Nm down).
- All in all, considering the promised power / torque benefits (240/500), the tuning box in this setting falls way, way short of that. Quite disappointing.

Moving on to p2+1:

352ekjq.jpg


- Disclaimer: I think that the engine didn't have the time to properly "adjust" to the change of program, so some things may appear slightly worse (than if I'd let the engine run in this setting for a couple of weeks). In any case, I think it's representative
- As you can see the sudden spike is again very, very there. The torque is disappointingly low throughout the range and you do get some power higher up but nor really that much. The top horsepower measured was 204.3PS @ 4,200RPM, a meager increase of 14PS over stock. Again, the engine's output up until 3,750RPM is lower than stock.

OK... That's what the dyno said, and I believe it's quite clear. All 6 runs were pretty consistent, i.e. the 1st run on p2 was identical to the 2nd run on p2, etc. This box didn't deliver the promised gains (I mean, not by a long way) and it actually made the car worse until 3,500 - 3,750. A very pronounced spike and dip is noticed in the 1750 - 2,500 range which may be the reason for all those limp home modes and coil lights.

Hope the above helps.
 

Andrew@DTUK

Forum Sponsor
Okay...... ready for the dyno results?

We did 6 runs in total. The first two runs were in stock, the next two in p2 and the final two in p2+1. I didn't have the time to test p1 and p3, but at the end of the day I didn't really want to after the results I got.

The first diagram below is the comparison between the stock run (dotted lines) and the P2 (continuous lines):

25540v4.jpg


Well, well. A few remarks:

- The stock engine was measured at 191.1PS / 389.6Nm. That's about 4% higher than SEAT official figures, and no surprise really since VAG group tend to understate those figures. Two consecutive runs gave the exact same figures and curves, so all was well with the dyno too
- The engine does improve above the 3,500RPM mark, reaching a top figure of 212.2PS at about 4,100RPM. This finding is confirmed with the feel on the road - the engine revs faster and more freely at the top range, which helps in 0-60 stats. The same applies to the torque - above 3,500RPM the torque remains more or less level and delays to fade out (actually, the correct way to put it would be that the torque remains level and, as a result, the HP increases)
- Now for the negatives: At around 1,700RPM there is a huge spike which is followed by an immediate dip, which stabilizes again at around 2,400RPM. We have confirmed this in both runs (and it also happens in the p2+1 as we will see later). The dyno guys were asking me if I could feel the engine bogging down in that range; they were really surprised to see that. Of course this is consistent with problems such as coil lights and limp modes when the engine is pressed at low RPMs. It appears that the torque request is excessive, and the main ECU doesn't agree with something. It could be a torque limiter, a smoke limiter, who knows, but it's clear that the ECU interferes and cuts the fuel preventing the torque to reach the requested value. Perhaps there is a chance that this happens only in full throttle, and in 50% throttle (for example) the engine may feel more flexible and responsive. However this is the (negative) picture of the dyno result.
- As a result of the above, there is a torque peak figure of 422.7Nm @ 2,000RPM, but this is deceiving, since it only exists for a brief moment. In fact, the torque all the way until 3,500RPM is actually BELOW the stock engine. The exact same thing is true for the horsepower as well. Up until 3,500RPM the power output is actually lower than stock. I would say a more representative figure for the torque is around 375Nm (about 15Nm down).
- All in all, considering the promised power / torque benefits (240/500), the tuning box in this setting falls way, way short of that. Quite disappointing.

Moving on to p2+1:

352ekjq.jpg


- Disclaimer: I think that the engine didn't have the time to properly "adjust" to the change of program, so some things may appear slightly worse (than if I'd let the engine run in this setting for a couple of weeks). In any case, I think it's representative
- As you can see the sudden spike is again very, very there. The torque is disappointingly low throughout the range and you do get some power higher up but nor really that much. The top horsepower measured was 204.3PS @ 4,200RPM, a meager increase of 14PS over stock. Again, the engine's output up until 3,750RPM is lower than stock.

OK... That's what the dyno said, and I believe it's quite clear. All 6 runs were pretty consistent, i.e. the 1st run on p2 was identical to the 2nd run on p2, etc. This box didn't deliver the promised gains (I mean, not by a long way) and it actually made the car worse until 3,500 - 3,750. A very pronounced spike and dip is noticed in the 1750 - 2,500 range which may be the reason for all those limp home modes and coil lights.

Hope the above helps.

Interesting post, but there again anything to do with dyno's tend to be...

Ive not posted these before, but these are our own dyno sheets for map 1 and map 2 on plus 2, this is an independent dyno thats around 40 miles away from us (all the local ones arent very good), I cant find the before graph, but from memory the skoda on this dyno was running around 195hp and around 300lbft/408nm

Map 1 + 2

skoda%20map%201_zpseoarye8f.jpg


236.5hp and 377lbft / 512nm

Map 2 + 2

skoda%202_zpswy08z7eu.jpg


234.5hp and 377lbft / 512nm

After looking at your graphs i did ask the guys in the office if your car was manual or DSG as the only other time i have seen this low down spike, was from a customer in Switzerland running a CRDT on a DSG Golf GTD who's car produced 248hp and 520nm...

Im not trying to be provocative, but your feedback prior to taking the car to the dyno doesn't match the post above, forgetting the figures above does the car still feel as strong as your initial feedback would suggest?
 

abulafia

Active Member
Aug 5, 2016
52
1
Greece
Andrew thanks for the reply (which I don't find provocative in any way).

My car is manual, not DSG. The runs were performed in 5th gear.

True, my initial feedback was good, in the sense that I have the program active for the last 10 days or so. I was using the p2 setting, and I only pushed the car 2-3 times in 0-60, 0-80 situations, pushing the engine well into the 4,000's. In this type of acceleration which takes full advantage of the upper RPM range, the car is indeed stronger (like I posted above). Mindful of the various limp home / coil issues, I didn't push or overstress the engine when I was below 2,500 and I was treating the throttle very gingerly 99% of the time.

I have the feeling that in part-throttle situations the engine responds slightly better, and perhaps the picture is reversed in full throttle (which is reflected in the graphs). Perhaps the torque request is too much for the engine management system hence the spikes and dips. Don't know really. What is certain is that the real figures as measured (let's call them "headline" figures) are some way off the expected ones.

Having said that, I don't wish to trash the box because it may work much better for other people. At the end of day, I believe, it's psychological as well... :shrug:
 

Andrew@DTUK

Forum Sponsor
Andrew thanks for the reply (which I don't find provocative in any way).

My car is manual, not DSG. The runs were performed in 5th gear.

True, my initial feedback was good, in the sense that I have the program active for the last 10 days or so. I was using the p2 setting, and I only pushed the car 2-3 times in 0-60, 0-80 situations, pushing the engine well into the 4,000's. In this type of acceleration which takes full advantage of the upper RPM range, the car is indeed stronger (like I posted above). Mindful of the various limp home / coil issues, I didn't push or overstress the engine when I was below 2,500 and I was treating the throttle very gingerly 99% of the time.

I have the feeling that in part-throttle situations the engine responds slightly better, and perhaps the picture is reversed in full throttle (which is reflected in the graphs). Perhaps the torque request is too much for the engine management system hence the spikes and dips. Don't know really. What is certain is that the real figures as measured (let's call them "headline" figures) are some way off the expected ones.

Having said that, I don't wish to trash the box because it may work much better for other people. At the end of day, I believe, it's psychological as well... :shrug:

running the car in 5th would give different results to a car running in 4th gear (or so I've been told), i know most of the sheets I've seen have always been conducted in 4th or 3rd.. Just something else to do with the dyno lottery..
 
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abulafia

Active Member
Aug 5, 2016
52
1
Greece
running the car in 5th would give different results to a car running in 4th gear (or so I've been told), i know most of the sheets I've seen have always been conducted in 4th or 3rd.. Just something else to do with the dyno lottery..

I guess... Stock figures were dead on, though.
 

adamant

Active Member
May 13, 2014
95
1
anyone else had their car on the dyno? is it a case of some cars react differently? - surely not
 

ActionScript

Active Member
Mar 10, 2016
95
1
Thanks for posting this abulafia, very much appreciated and the results you've found are quite interesting!

Now all we need is a couple of other people to take their 184 TDI to a dyno so we can start getting a better overall picture of the results :)
 
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