Cupra wheel hop, sorted...
- Thread starter Syndrome
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Cool! I'm actually doing my first SEAT gig on Friday and Saturday, for SEAT DE. Skidpan on Friday then generic-racing-stuff Saturday. You here for Blancpain?
Cupra wheel hop, sorted - UPDATE
Hey all,
Just thought I'd pitch in with a bit of an update.
Some time late last year the Cupra decided to lunch its engine, before it went back to SEAT I decided to remove the Neuspeed insert. I had noticed it had seemed to have slackened off in the last few months and was surprised to see that the insert had nearly been cut in half.
It took a bit of coaxing to get out in one piece, additionally the retaining plate was looking a bit sorry as it had obviously been catching some grief from stones and other road debris.
I ran it without an insert for a few months while the new engine bedded in and noticed the usual tricks were back and as "fun" as I remembered such as axle hop and bucking when loosing even a small amount of traction/axle hopping.
Given that the softer Neuspeed insert had some durability issues I bought myself a "034Motorsport Billet Aluminium MQB Dogbone Mount Insert" a few weeks ago. It does the same job but is a single piece of aluminium rather than a polyurethane insert, retaining plate and washer combo like the Neuspeed is.
Initial impressions were that engine vibrations and noise/resonance are being transmitted into the cabin, while it is only a small amount I can hear more engine noise in the cabin (about 20% of what the Soundaktor does in Cupra mode, but it isn't fake) and some small vibrations through the wheel on tickover. There are a small amount of vibes when starting the engine or when reversing but these don't feel worse that the Neuspeed, in fact reverse is no where near as bad.
It is worth highlighting that I am running a 280, so if you have a 290 with the fruitier pipes you will probably notice less noise than I did, also the extra vibes are only really noticeable if you are looking for them, non of my regular passengers noticed any changes. Personally these issues, if you can call them that, don't intrude but rather make the car feel a little more connected to me without making the car annoying.
Now the handling bit, massive improvement over the stock setup.
The car is more eager to accelerate as there is obviously not as much slack in the drivetrain to get bullied about by 300ish bhp.
It doesn't lose grip nearly as easily and when it does it is much more progressive, you feel the car start to spin its wheels and then the TC reigns it if you go to far, in contrast to the stock response of abruptly loosing grip combined with the "thud thud thud" of the TC combined with the car lurching on and off the power as the drivetrain shifts and the axles hop. Don't get me wrong if you pin the throttle in 2nd on a damp road you will still get axle hop, but it is more of a patter than a thud.
In conclusion an insert is still a worthwhile mod to help remedy one of, IMHO, the worse design flaws of this car, but I would go for the more durable 034 insert at the moment.
Hey all,
Just thought I'd pitch in with a bit of an update.
Some time late last year the Cupra decided to lunch its engine, before it went back to SEAT I decided to remove the Neuspeed insert. I had noticed it had seemed to have slackened off in the last few months and was surprised to see that the insert had nearly been cut in half.
It took a bit of coaxing to get out in one piece, additionally the retaining plate was looking a bit sorry as it had obviously been catching some grief from stones and other road debris.
I ran it without an insert for a few months while the new engine bedded in and noticed the usual tricks were back and as "fun" as I remembered such as axle hop and bucking when loosing even a small amount of traction/axle hopping.
Given that the softer Neuspeed insert had some durability issues I bought myself a "034Motorsport Billet Aluminium MQB Dogbone Mount Insert" a few weeks ago. It does the same job but is a single piece of aluminium rather than a polyurethane insert, retaining plate and washer combo like the Neuspeed is.
Initial impressions were that engine vibrations and noise/resonance are being transmitted into the cabin, while it is only a small amount I can hear more engine noise in the cabin (about 20% of what the Soundaktor does in Cupra mode, but it isn't fake) and some small vibrations through the wheel on tickover. There are a small amount of vibes when starting the engine or when reversing but these don't feel worse that the Neuspeed, in fact reverse is no where near as bad.
It is worth highlighting that I am running a 280, so if you have a 290 with the fruitier pipes you will probably notice less noise than I did, also the extra vibes are only really noticeable if you are looking for them, non of my regular passengers noticed any changes. Personally these issues, if you can call them that, don't intrude but rather make the car feel a little more connected to me without making the car annoying.
Now the handling bit, massive improvement over the stock setup.
The car is more eager to accelerate as there is obviously not as much slack in the drivetrain to get bullied about by 300ish bhp.
It doesn't lose grip nearly as easily and when it does it is much more progressive, you feel the car start to spin its wheels and then the TC reigns it if you go to far, in contrast to the stock response of abruptly loosing grip combined with the "thud thud thud" of the TC combined with the car lurching on and off the power as the drivetrain shifts and the axles hop. Don't get me wrong if you pin the throttle in 2nd on a damp road you will still get axle hop, but it is more of a patter than a thud.
In conclusion an insert is still a worthwhile mod to help remedy one of, IMHO, the worse design flaws of this car, but I would go for the more durable 034 insert at the moment.
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nice one, where did you get the new insert? did it cost much?
also loose = not tight, lose = ceased to have
"edit" ok just googled it and found that 034 is a website itself. so i assume you got it from there. version 1 or 2?
also loose = not tight, lose = ceased to have
"edit" ok just googled it and found that 034 is a website itself. so i assume you got it from there. version 1 or 2?
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nice one, where did you get the new insert? did it cost much?
also loose = not tight, lose = ceased to have
"edit" ok just googled it and found that 034 is a website itself. so i assume you got it from there. version 1 or 2?
Whoops fat fingers, didn't even see that one
Bought it from Awesome GTI for around £50, think it was even £10 cheaper than what the Neuspeed is going for now.
In response to your edit, mine was V1, but it's pretty simple to see which one you need by getting a shot of the bushing, mine is an early model but I don't know if later Cupras need a V2 insert.
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Brilliant original write-up from 2015, Syndrome, and then the recent follow up. Great you've taken the time to explain your experiences, cheers!
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Whoops fat fingers, didn't even see that one
Bought it from Awesome GTI for around £50, think it was even £10 cheaper than what the Neuspeed is going for now.
In response to your edit, mine was V1, but it's pretty simple to see which one you need by getting a shot of the bushing, mine is an early model but I don't know if later Cupras need a V2 insert.
Anyone had a look under the 290 yet to see which version it is, please? Would save me getting the axle stands and jack out!
@Syndrome - what do you mean launched the engine? What happened?
I also finally went with the 034 version. I really likw it and want to do the shifter bushings and exhaust as well.
Should we get a metal one or plastic one?
https://store.034motorsport.com/mqb...3-s3-billet-aluminum.html#product_tabs_review
I really want to eliminate wheelhop but i don't want new issues with the car.
Any expert around on the issue?
https://store.034motorsport.com/mqb...3-s3-billet-aluminum.html#product_tabs_review
I really want to eliminate wheelhop but i don't want new issues with the car.
Any expert around on the issue?
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Bump for an answer to the above question, can't link to it as I haven't had 15 posts yet!
Would like to know which to buy that affects the car as little as possible but reduces the wheel hop by as much as possible.
Sent from my E6853 using Tapatalk
Would like to know which to buy that affects the car as little as possible but reduces the wheel hop by as much as possible.
Sent from my E6853 using Tapatalk
I ordered the 34 aluminum insert.
The ease of getting it in and out makes the decision easy.
It should also be really good.
I will review once it's installed.
Don't want to be smartass, but how can you conclude it is more durable after just having it? I've tried both like you but in the opposite order, after finally getting the correct 034 insert, it was bent quickly and became less effective. I spoke to a few other owners that reported the same. Also didn't like the additional noise it made, similar to the 'soundaktor' which I switched off for a reason. And while the part itself might be 'hard', I wonder how it will affect the original bushing with this little metal tab pushing and rubbing on a very small area.
I've checked my Neuspeed after 8000 miles with it and still looks good. But it is also a bit soft, especially when the weather gets hotter. So now I got the Powerflex insert whose construction looks good too and it is available in different hardnesses, I have the slightly harder (higher shore) track version (part nr PFF85-832P). Cheaper also than Neuspeed. But still new so evaluation pending.
Either way, it seems an insert will get to deal with a lot of movement and that it is possible that it will wear some way or another. Then rather the insert, which is easy to replace and cheap, compared to the original engine bushing.
My 2 pennies.
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Install Powerflex
First off, just a reminder, if you change your downpipe that typically has a shorter flex section in it, it is strongly recommended to mount at least an inserts.
Rainy day, perfect so installed the Powerflex track insert. I have the mount B.
Red the Neuspeed that came out in one piece, the black is just discoloration from the black original bushing, I have cut out the middle part of the back part to reduce vibrations in reverse. The Powerflex has a slightly different shape and is supposed to fit each differing mount versions better. The low bridge between the two front 'fangs' looks like a better fit, and the rear part extends further forward. Greased it in and it went straight in pushing it up with my extended arm under the car (just drove it up two pieces of wood).
I was a bit apprehensive the NVH would be worse but it isn't so very glad about that, went out in the rain and temps close to zero to test the wheel hop and sure enough it still did it, perhaps it was a little less violent again. Will see how it does in the dry later on. Given that the Powerflex is cheaper and has different versions for each mount and performs as least as good with different hardnesses to choose from, it is easy to recommend it. It will reduce the instances where you get wheelhop and when you still do get it, you don't feel like the car is coming apart
First off, just a reminder, if you change your downpipe that typically has a shorter flex section in it, it is strongly recommended to mount at least an inserts.
Rainy day, perfect so installed the Powerflex track insert. I have the mount B.
Red the Neuspeed that came out in one piece, the black is just discoloration from the black original bushing, I have cut out the middle part of the back part to reduce vibrations in reverse. The Powerflex has a slightly different shape and is supposed to fit each differing mount versions better. The low bridge between the two front 'fangs' looks like a better fit, and the rear part extends further forward. Greased it in and it went straight in pushing it up with my extended arm under the car (just drove it up two pieces of wood).
I was a bit apprehensive the NVH would be worse but it isn't so very glad about that, went out in the rain and temps close to zero to test the wheel hop and sure enough it still did it, perhaps it was a little less violent again. Will see how it does in the dry later on. Given that the Powerflex is cheaper and has different versions for each mount and performs as least as good with different hardnesses to choose from, it is easy to recommend it. It will reduce the instances where you get wheelhop and when you still do get it, you don't feel like the car is coming apart
I'd love to know what they fit to the Golfs to make them not do this, that they apparently leave off the Cupras.
Seems backwards going to the trouble and expense of fitting the VAQ to then have it struggle for grip again through this hop.
Seems backwards going to the trouble and expense of fitting the VAQ to then have it struggle for grip again through this hop.
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If I grasped it correctly, the GTI has an inbuilt function in the TC software that reduces the problem, which then quite a few switch off because they think it interferes on hard launching... But these inserts are made primarily for the Golfs of this world so does not seem they are completely free from this issue anyway. But a Cupra needs it even more...
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