Oil temperature and EGT on LEON 2010 TDI

Mac

Active Member
Dec 13, 2013
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www.racingparts.ro
My car is something youve never seen on 2.0 cr platform.
Totally rebuilt engine with rods bearings race camshafts ported head big turbo 76mm full exhaust and dq500 gearbox and big injectors. Aiming at 350+ hp
450km to go and i start tuning it.
Egr deletw pipe and swirl gone.


I will maybe post a build thread later.
Just have to sort out oil temperature and egt before tuning.
Emp gauge also missing for the moment.

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Speed-FReek

Active Member
Jun 12, 2013
1,108
17
South Oxfordshire, UK
OoooooK...now I almost wish I'd never asked :D

It would be great to see a diesel that is able to blow away some of the Cupras [B)] Please do post a build thread because I would certainly be interested to see all the work you put into doing it.

What challenges did you face with the DQ500? Was it a direct fit in place of the DQ250 or did you need to make (or buy) a special bell housing adapter? What about coding it? I guess it's not just plug & play (?)
 
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Mac

Active Member
Dec 13, 2013
211
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TM. RO
www.racingparts.ro
No coding although i have an issue seeing the gearbox in vcds. Almost plug and play ..some wiring to do..i had to build some parts bit nothing difficult for me as i have my own workshop with lathe and milling machine, tig welding etc.

7abb7764edc94f1b1603006fd4470d60.jpg


Forgot to add i have a hpfp cp3 upgrade , plug and play
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Mac

Active Member
Dec 13, 2013
211
0
TM. RO
www.racingparts.ro
I will change settings today to match yours, poor oil quality and see if something changes.
In a few days i will be able to write in boot mode the oem software on the ecu and hope to repair damage done by revo and get EGT working as well
 

Rusty2k

Active Member
May 12, 2013
709
131
I've managed to have a further look at this on my car today. The instrument cluster is rejecting adaption of extended servicing.

I've set all the IDE00492 values as per what was posted above and all channels accepted the coding, but then hit the following problems:

IDE00513-ESI: maximum value km-driving distance/inspection has a stored value of 15000 and rejects any higher number as out of range

IDE00514-ESI: maximum value of time between inspections has a stored value of 372 and rejects any higher number as out of range

The corresponding channels for the minimum values were both set to the same as above. It let me put in lower values in each of those so theoretically I now have a variable service range, but only up to a maximum of 372 days / 15000 KM.

I'll see what happens over the next few days as I'm driving around to see if the time / distance to service numbers do change.

I suspect this is the significance of QG2, which VAG describe as "No possibility of activating service interval prolongation" meaning that my cluster is factory coded to not allow extended service activation either by a hardware difference or software coding that VCDS cannot access.

My oil temperature reading from the cluster remains 0.0°C at all times.
 

Speed-FReek

Active Member
Jun 12, 2013
1,108
17
South Oxfordshire, UK
I suspect this is the significance of QG2, which VAG describe as "No possibility of activating service interval prolongation" meaning that my cluster is factory coded to not allow extended service activation either by a hardware difference or software coding that VCDS cannot access.

It is almost unheard of for VAG to fit any parts to a car that will never be utilised so I'm not sure I believe the official description against the PR-Code of "QG2" which states "No possibility of activating service interval prolongation". Maybe that description is just aimed at the end consumer who would under normal circumstances not have the ability to change the service schedule to a prolonged service interval themselves. The TOG sensor and sump pan to accommodate it along with the associated additional wiring comes in at around £400-500 in parts. Why would VAG even bother fitting components of that value if there really was "No possibility of activating service interval prolongation" by anyone, even by a dealer?

The description in This Blog Post (same link I posted earlier) states the following from an experienced VAG mechanic, and to me, this description actually makes more logical sense:-
Qq2 - Fixed interval servicing 1 year 10,000 miles fitted with oil quality sensor. This service interval can be changer to Qq1 at the customers request. The service light will not come on sooner than the set time of 1 year or 10,000 miles.

This is suggesting that a "QG2" car can actually be switched onto a prolonged service interval, although only by a dealer, which effectively means only using dealer diagnostic tools (VAS-PC / ODIS). If VAS-PC or ODIS can do it, then there is a strong possibility that the same can also be done using VCDS, unless of course the configuration is within memory cells of the cluster because these are configuration areas that VCDS is unable to access.

I wonder if the short coding value of your instrument cluster is what is preventing those two ESI adaptation values from being changed above specified threshold limits. Maybe a simple coding change to your cluster will switch it to "QG1" which will then allow you to make the changes you need.

Can you please post up a full VCDS Auto-Scan of your car.
 
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Rusty2k

Active Member
May 12, 2013
709
131
Interesting read - especially the bit about the brake wear sensors.

As far as I know the production codes are not documented to consumers anyway so I would have thought the description is for internal reference only. I got the list with descriptions for my car from erWIN. I suppose it’s certainly a possibility it’s an iffy translation from something that was originally in German…

I did think about the coding. It’s only 4 bytes on the instrument cluster and across all the bytes there’s only 6 undocumented in VCDS. The rest are all fairly self explanatory and don’t seem as though they’d affect the service intervals. I tried it with the brake wear and screen wash indicators enabled (my car doesn’t have either) and there was no change.

It won’t accept any changes to the undocumented bits. Any of those bits I changed manually would either be rejected outright or accepted but the change not reflected when the coding is re-read. Perhaps security access is required for these changes… Who knows?!

VCDS scan here

Code:
Monday,15,May,2017,19:54:23:40124
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 17.1.3.0 (x64)
Data version: 20170320 DS267.7
www.Ross-Tech.com


Chassis Type: 1P (1K0)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 2E 42 44 46 52 56 62 72 77


01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
2E-Media Player 3 -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
77-Telephone -- Status: OK 0000
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (CEG)       Labels: 03L-906-022-CBA.clb
   Part No SW: 03L 906 022 TP    HW: 03L 906 022 GP
   Component: R4 2,0L EDC G000AG  5763  
   Revision: 13H03---    Serial number:               
   Coding: 0050078
   Shop #: WSC 12600 281 419526
   VCID: 0605CC8671BB9171D3-8052

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0 0 0 0 1 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 02E-927-770.clb
   Part No SW: 02E 300 052 S    HW: 02E 927 770 AL
   Component: GSG DSG AG6     511 2106  
   Revision:    51112    Serial number: 00000911161205
   Coding: 0000020
   Shop #: WSC 06402 785 00200
   VCID: 2441B60EE7474361AD-8070

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104)       Labels: 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 AJ    HW: 1K0 907 379 AJ
   Component: ESP MK60EC1   H30 0107  
   Revision: 00H30001    
   Coding: 163B6012092600FD680B06E490220082350000
   Shop #: WSC 04941 000 00000
   VCID: 7AFDA876F543E591A7-802E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255)       Labels: 5K0-907-044.clb
   Part No SW: 5P0 907 044 P    HW: 5P0 907 044 P
   Component: Climatronic   H15 0602  
   Revision: 00001001    
   Coding: 0008000002
   Shop #: WSC 99999 102 209715
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Climatronic A01006
   ROD: EV_ClimaAutoBasis_SE35.rod
   VCID: 3D77636AACED12A9C2-8068

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels: 1K0-937-08x-09.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 937 087 E    HW: 5K0 937 087 E
   Component: BCM PQ35 H+   011 1029  
   Revision: BF011001    
   Coding: 46180A3E9025B0C0860800809500018405E100A8425D8160648000000000
   Shop #: WSC 05807 000 104857
   VCID: 377B714286D138F918-8062

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1P0 955 119 C  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: Wischer 11120  22  0611 
   Coding: 00DB90

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1P0 951 171 
   Component: Innenraumuebe  010 4971 
   Coding: 000000

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
   Component: LIN BACKUP HO  H05 1501 
   Coding: 000000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 5N0-959-655.lbl
   Part No SW: 5N0 959 655 J    HW: 5N0 959 655 J
   Component: J234__A0E VW10 HI   1916  
   Revision: 20013000    Serial number: 003E2PQ0FTTE  
   Coding: 0012357
   Shop #: WSC 06402 785 00200
   VCID: 4481168E070763618D-8010

   Subsystem 1 - Serial number: 6332MTS617653159 

   Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 6342MTS649493159 

   Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 6351HTS605OO09KR 

   Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 6361HTS6HIOO09KR 

   Subsystem 5 - Serial number: 00000000000000000

   Subsystem 6 - Serial number: 00000000000000000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY9.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 CD    HW: 1K0 953 549 CD
   Component: J0527           855 0111  
   Coding: 0001832
   Shop #: WSC 06402 785 00200
   VCID: 76E5BC46015B81F1C3-8022

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1P0 959 538 B  Labels: 3C8-959-537.CLB
   Component: E221__MFL-TAP   H02 0103  
   Coding: 00000227
   Shop #: WSC 00000  

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels: 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb
   Part No SW: 1P0 920 954 A    HW: 1P0 920 954 A
   Component: KOMBI         H07 0307  
   Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 111A00
   Shop #: WSC 99999 102 20971
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A04052
   ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_SK46.rod
   VCID: 2F6B49227681F03940-807A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 1K0-907-530-V4.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 AD    HW: 1K0 907 951 
   Component: J533  Gateway   H16 0231  
   Revision:   H16       Serial number: 4320K09B300596
   Coding: ED807F06000612000203
   Shop #: WSC 05807 000 1048576
   VCID: 69DFE73A40E55E095E-803C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer (J334)       Labels: 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 953 234     HW: 5K0 953 234 
   Component: IMMO          H07 0307  
   Serial number:               
   Coding: 000000
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09 A03005
   ROD: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09_VW21.rod
   VCID: 6ADD98368DE3551157-803E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 2E: Media Player 3 (J650)       Labels: 5N0-035-342.lbl
   Part No SW: 5N0 035 342 B    HW: 5N0 035 342 B
   Component: SG EXT.PLAYER H13 0090  
   Revision: A1001003    Serial number: 7667697424    
   Coding: 020000
   Shop #: WSC 04941 000 00000
   VCID: 2645AC06517BB171B3-8072

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver (J386)       Labels: 3C0-959-70X-GEN4.clb
   Part No SW: 3C8 959 701     HW: 3C0 959 793 C
   Component: TUER-SG FT    002 0508  
   Revision: 12110009    Serial number: 0005292638
   Coding: 0012B0
   Shop #: WSC 05807 000 104857
   ASAM Dataset: EV_TSGFPQ35BRFVW46X A04001
   ROD: EV_TSGFPQ35BRFVW46X.rod
   VCID: 6DD7932ABC0D422932-8038

   Slave Driver: 
   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 1K0 959 704 AF    HW: 1K0 959 794 S
   Component: J389__TSG-HR  006 1401 
   Serial number: 00000004476459      
   Coding: 000290

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1K0-909-14x-GEN3.clb
   Part No: 1K0 909 144 J
   Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl. 142    3001  
   Revision: 00H17000    
   Shop #: WSC 06402 785 00200
   VCID: 316F4F5AA8B5E6C956-8064

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. (J387)       Labels: 3C0-959-70X-GEN4.clb
   Part No SW: 1T0 959 702 AC    HW: 3C0 959 792 A
   Component: TUER-SG BT    002 0312  
   Revision: 14101005    Serial number: 0000025496
   Coding: 0012B0
   Shop #: WSC 05807 000 104857
   ASAM Dataset: EV_DCU52BrosePasseSide A03004
   ROD: EV_DCU52BrosePasseSide.rod
   VCID: 79FFB77AF845EE89AE-802C

   Slave Passenger: 
   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 1K0 959 703 AF    HW: 1K0 959 795 S
   Component: J388__TSG-HL  006 1401 
   Serial number: 00000004460788      
   Coding: 000290

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio (J503)       Labels: 5M0-035-1xx-56.clb
   Part No SW: 1P0 035 153 B    HW: 1P0 035 153 B
   Component: Radio G3 UL   H59 0059  
   Revision: 0H001001    Serial number: SEZ1Z2I6374157
   Coding: 0102040004
   Shop #: WSC 04941 000 00000
   VCID: 2441B60E27474361AD-8070

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 77: Telephone (J412)       Labels: 7P6-035-730.clb
   Part No SW: 7P6 035 730 F    HW: 7P6 035 730 F
   Component: TELEFON       H09 2730  
   Revision: 1B001001    Serial number: 00007662000691
   Coding: 0200000000010110
   Shop #: WSC 06402 785 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_UHVNA A01015
   ROD: UHVNA.rod
   VCID: 35677B4A94DDCAE90A-8060

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 02:34)--------------------------


I’ve got the country set to RoW to allow the KM/H display to be turned off and the big MPH display on instead but I did try it set back to UK and there was no change.

Perhaps the longer intervals can be correctly adapted through dealer tools… We already know there’s UDS stuff that VCDS can’t do… However, it would seem from what’s posted in that blog you linked to that VW Group’s intention is that the brake wear sensors are required for extended servicing so it’s a contradiction to then allow extended service intervals on vehicles without them.

(I’m assuming you do actually know that SEAT don’t pay VW Group the retail parts prices for the sensor and sump… It’s likely to only cost SEAT a couple of Euros or so difference between the TOG and non-TOG versions of the engine to go on the production line. It’s not entirely inconceivable that a greater component cost would be accepted to deliver a production simplification (less variants). It happens all the time in large scale manufacturing. I agree this would be unusual for VAG though.)
 
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Rusty2k

Active Member
May 12, 2013
709
131
if its there it must work..

You'd have thought so yes, but it definitely doesn't work on my car!

I've emailed both SEAT UK and Revo UK today to ask respectively if it should be possible to switch my car to extended servicing and whether or not Revo's software does anything to affect the servicing regime.

I'm fairly sure the Revo software doesn't affect anything outside the ECU but I'll post whatever response I get from them.

Can you keep us up to date with your findings after restoring your ECU to OEM software? It would be good to get an update on that.
 
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Speed-FReek

Active Member
Jun 12, 2013
1,108
17
South Oxfordshire, UK
Code:
Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels: 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb
   Part No SW: 1P0 920 954 A    HW: 1P0 920 954 A
   Component: KOMBI         H07 0307  
   Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 111A00
   Shop #: WSC 99999 102 20971
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A04052
   ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_SK46.rod
   VCID: 2F6B49227681F03940-807A

Below are the details of my instrument cluster. Obviously the part numbers of our clusters are different because you have the FR logo dials whereas mine are just the plain ones, but I would probably put money on the internal hardware between the two being pretty much identical.

I can't see anything in the coding bytes that would have any obvious effect on what adaption values could or could not be set. Other than you having RoW set for the display, the only other differences between yours and mine are that you don't have the Brake Pad Warning system installed, you don't have the Washer Fluid Warning system installed, and you don't have TPMS installed.

So it can only really be either a difference in the actual software installed in your instrument cluster, or a difference with configuration data values that are stored in specific memory cells of the cluster. The first isn't a DIY job and the latter requires some fairly expensive tools and/or stripping down of the cluster to directly read data off the EEPROM. Not to mention some specialist knowledge on how to understand/decipher the data values, so that is probably a non-starter.

Code:
Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels: 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb
   Part No SW: 1P0 920 950 K    HW: 1P0 920 950 K
   Component: KOMBI         H05 0607  
   Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 410F01
   Shop #: WSC 131071 1023 2097151
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A04114
   ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_SK46.rod
   VCID: 3561048F949B21E90A-8060


If you're interested in what components are used/needed on VAG cars which are set to run on an extended service interval, and what parameters are used to drive the algorithm that constantly adjusts the time/distance to next service, the following diagrams gives an overview of that. It is different for petrol and diesel cars. These diagrams just show the info for diesel cars seeing as that is what this thread is specifically related to.

241k0o8.jpg


149387o.jpg
 
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Mac

Active Member
Dec 13, 2013
211
0
TM. RO
www.racingparts.ro
I've seen on the mk6 and mk7 gti forum people retrofiting this system to their cars.

Revo is known to affect other parts of the ecu, for example they deleted EGT on my car.
I have to write oem file in boot to return back to original the ecu and start tuning from scratch as their map is sh*t anyway.
Happened on a few other cars with revo and the solution was the one above.
 
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Rusty2k

Active Member
May 12, 2013
709
131
Well, I sent SEAT UK my VIN and asked the question about switching to extended servicing... here's the reply.

"Many thanks for contacting SEAT UK Customer Services regarding the service regime on your vehicle.

I have checked our Factory systems and they indicate that your vehicle was built set to the shorter service regime and cannot be changed.

I understand this may not be the news you wanted to hear and I apologise for any disappointment caused."
 

Mac

Active Member
Dec 13, 2013
211
0
TM. RO
www.racingparts.ro
So QG2 means we cant display oil temperature..this is sh*t..
I will investigate further as it makes no sense
Some were able to retrofit it ..it should work on our car also
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

Speed-FReek

Active Member
Jun 12, 2013
1,108
17
South Oxfordshire, UK
Well, I sent SEAT UK my VIN and asked the question about switching to extended servicing... here's the reply.

"Many thanks for contacting SEAT UK Customer Services regarding the service regime on your vehicle.

I have checked our Factory systems and they indicate that your vehicle was built set to the shorter service regime and cannot be changed.

I understand this may not be the news you wanted to hear and I apologise for any disappointment caused."

I wouldn't believe a word that the keyboard button pressers at SEAT UK say. All they've probably done is look up your car on their system, found a PR-Code of QG2 against it and told you "computer says no". I very much doubt they have bothered checking with the VAG tech department in Spain/Germany.

Maybe go back and ask them what was the point in them even fitting a G266 TOG sensor to your car if it can't ever be switched to a flexible long life service schedule. You probably really need to find a real VAG tech you can speak to who knows what they are talking about.

Does anyone have access to ODIS-E? There might be a GFF in there that can do it (?)
 

Rusty2k

Active Member
May 12, 2013
709
131
I wouldn't believe a word that the keyboard button pressers at SEAT UK say. All they've probably done is look up your car on their system, found a PR-Code of QG2 against it and told you "computer says no". I very much doubt they have bothered checking with the VAG tech department in Spain/Germany.

Maybe go back and ask them what was the point in them even fitting a G266 TOG sensor to your car if it can't ever be switched to a flexible long life service schedule. You probably really need to find a real VAG tech you can speak to who knows what they are talking about.

Does anyone have access to ODIS-E? There might be a GFF in there that can do it (?)

To me this is more credible than the "mechanic" you quoted previously.

I've had a SEAT "mechanic" insist that the cambelt change interval on the CR170 is 20k / 2 years and worse still the service manager in the dealership defended him when I pointed out this was incorrect. I had to get SEAT UK to call the dealership and correct them.

Yes they probably didn't check with the technical team in Spain but I've had contact with SEAT UK on a few occasions about my car and always found them to have the correct information.

Incidentally I have asked the further question as to why the sensor is fitted if it's not used...
 

Speed-FReek

Active Member
Jun 12, 2013
1,108
17
South Oxfordshire, UK
To me this is more credible than the "mechanic" you quoted previously.

I've had a SEAT "mechanic" insist that the cambelt change interval on the CR170 is 20k / 2 years and worse still the service manager in the dealership defended him when I pointed out this was incorrect. I had to get SEAT UK to call the dealership and correct them.

Yes they probably didn't check with the technical team in Spain but I've had contact with SEAT UK on a few occasions about my car and always found them to have the correct information.

Incidentally I have asked the further question as to why the sensor is fitted if it's not used...

It sounds like you've had a better experience with SEAT UK than I have :) When I recently asked them a question relating to the water pump for my engine, they were unable to tell me and suggested I ask one of their dealers. I did that and subsequently found out that the dealer had given me incorrect information :rolleyes: I eventually managed to get the (correct) info I was after.....from a SKODA dealer!
 

Number12

Active Member
Dec 22, 2011
120
12
Portugal
So, Has anyone successfully managed to turn the oil temperature on the cluster?

I also wanted to do it on the CEGA engine, LEON MK2 CR 170hp 07/2010 QG2.
And also doesn't show oil temp even with polar fis advanced installed :(
 
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