Paint easily scratchable?

Andy ap

Active Member
Mar 23, 2010
74
2
Antrim
I've recently picked up a MK3 Leon fr in moonshine black or midnight black whatever it is (paint code LY9T anyway) and I'm loving it but I've noticed the paint seems easily scratchable.

Within a week of having the car we did a roadtrip to Scotland and a stone or a peice of asphalt has lightly scratched along the roof on the motorway.

Since then I've noticed numerous other minor scratches that seem to be appearing. My thoughts are the dealer has polished the car a bit hard.

What's the best remedy to add a little hardness to the car paint? Claybar? If so how do you use them?

T.I.A
 

ChrisFRTP

Active Member
May 24, 2018
22
6
It could be the fact it was scratched / swirled before you got it but polished with something with fillers in to hide some swirls. You would need to correct the paint then add protection if you want proper results.

Before doing that though you want to make sure you have a good washing technique to avoid further damage and swirls inflicted to the paint as washing and drying is when most damage is done.

No idea how much knowledge you have about washing so sorry if that’s a lot you already knew!
 
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IrnBru

Active Member
Apr 4, 2018
115
21
I've recently picked up a MK3 Leon fr in moonshine black or midnight black whatever it is (paint code LY9T anyway) and I'm loving it but I've noticed the paint seems easily scratchable.

Within a week of having the car we did a roadtrip to Scotland and a stone or a peice of asphalt has lightly scratched along the roof on the motorway.

Since then I've noticed numerous other minor scratches that seem to be appearing. My thoughts are the dealer has polished the car a bit hard.

What's the best remedy to add a little hardness to the car paint? Claybar? If so how do you use them?

T.I.A

In my opinion, the paint is very scratchable (all cars are) , you can definitely ruin the cars paint if you just go at it with a sponge and soapy water, I have washed all my cars at least once a week, some times twice, this nice weather we're having doesn't help either, the air is very sandy, I have just washed mine today and gave it a wax and it is already covered in a layer of dust/sand, I haven't even drove it today, a clay bar won't take the scratches away, but it will prevent them when your washing the car after it, I'm not a master at polishing or washing the car for that matter, but I normally pressure was first, then a wash, then pressure wash again, then a chamois, then a wax at least once a month, I use maguires 2.0 wax (it's called something like that, purple bottle) sorry I haven't really answered your question lol.
 
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ben4012

Active Member
Sep 20, 2016
257
24
A clay bar will remove everything from the paint. It will not protect it in any way. Nothing you can do short of not driving will prevent chips.
 

kevster184

Active Member
Mar 14, 2015
682
29
As said if it's from external contact you can't do much about it. Unless you spray on several layers of laquer or get it protected with film.

A combination of water baised paints that are soft, unlike oil based of old and a dark colour like black makes it worse when washing if that where some is coming from.

Be careful with a clay bar on black, a too abrasive one will make a mess of it.

Washing technique and drying is key, after cleaning up the paint add good protection.

In an ideal world, decent snow foam that doesn't strip protection, decent wash soap and contact less drying (ie soft/deionised water) is what the really an*l, like I use.

I was only at my Dealer recently and watched a woman who is employed to clean the cars..... walks around with half a bucket of grotty water with a leather and wipes then over. More like rubs grit in all over them. All the dark cars from the SEATs to the Jaguars there are pretty much damaged now.
 
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SRGTD

Active Member
May 26, 2014
2,388
1,279
Owning a black car is a labour of love. I’ve had five in the past, and keeping them looking good does take a lot of time and commitment. I’m not sure there are any products that’ll increase the hardness of a car’s paintwork to stop scratching (other than maybe paint protection film or vinyl wrapping the car, both of which are very expensive!). Some ceramic sealants might help prevent minor marring and scratching but the key to minimising paintwork scratches and swirls is primarily a good washing technique, once any scratches and swirls have been removed first.

The old school method of using a single bucket and sponge to wash with and a chamois leather to dry with will inflict swirls to a car’s paintwork, and with a black or any dark coloured car, they’ll be particularly noticeable in bright, sunny conditions. If your car is currently showing signs of scratches and swirls, and you already use - or intend to use a safe washing technique in future, then you might want to consider getting the paint work professionally corrected so you have a good scratch free and swirl free base to move forward from for the future.

A professional detailer will offer a range of services at varying prices that will involve decontamination of the paint work (remove iron and tar deposits and other surface contaminants) and correction/removal of the swirls and scratches by a number of machine polishing stages prior to applying a protective coating of a good wax or sealant. You should then have paintwork that’s in good condition, and it will be easier to keep it that way with a good washing technique. I invested in a dual action machine polisher a few years ago, and it’s paid for itself many times over, compared to what it would have cost me to get my car professionally detailed (I am OCD about my car’s paintwork, but fortunately enjoy car detailing ).

The key to minimising future swirling and scratching is minimal contact with the bodywork, so a pre-wash stage is worthwhile to remove most of the dirt before the main wash.
  • Pre-wash stage; Snow foam and pre-rinse to remove most of the dirt before making contact with the paintwork during the main wash. While the dirt is being loosened / soaked during the pre-wash, wash the wheels, and the difficult to clean areas such as grilles, door shuts, inside the filler flap etc.
  • Main wash; Two bucket wash method using a good quality ph neutral shampoo and wash mitt.
  • Drying stage; with good quality car drying towels or a warm air dryer.
Lots of information on websites such as Detailing World on safe, effective washing techniques.

It’s also worth considering investing in some good quality detailing brushes for those difficult to clean areas mentioned at the pre-wash stage above, and also worth investing in some wheel cleaning brushes so you can clean the wheel barrels as well as the front face of the wheels. I’ve got a set of Wheel Woolies; they’re not cheap, but if they’re looked after they’ll give many years of good service.

In my experience, using a clay bar won’t prevent further scratches - the primary function of using a clay bar is to remove embedded contaminants from the paintwork in preparation for applying wax or sealant. Always ensure that plenty of lubrication is used with a clay bar to prevent marring of the paintwork. Once a car has been clayed, the paintwork should feel super smooth, and provides a good base for applying waxes or sealants, as they’ll bond to the car’s paintwork much more effectively than they will on a car that hasn’t been clayed.

Hope the above is useful and gives you some food for thought.
 
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kevster184

Active Member
Mar 14, 2015
682
29
I do what SRGTD says but add a rinse stage between snow foam and wash stage with a running hose. I use one bucket for soap and rinse sponge/mitt with a running hose between.

Even the direction you wash or dry makes a difference, ie not round in circles.
 

Big Col

Active Member
Nov 5, 2013
626
89
North Ayrshire
I feel your pain - mine is black (phantom black i think it's called) and the paint is very soft, showing up plenty of swirls from the previous owner upon closer inspection.

At first I was really disappointed cos my Ibiza was black magic metallic and had an excellent finish.

Anyhoos, my car is not a garage queen it does 20K miles a year. I've satisfied myself by having a good wash routine so that it doesn't get any worse and twice a year give it a full clay, polish, wax. I used poorboys black hole and poorboys wax.
 
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mrbugle

Active Member
Jun 25, 2015
209
0
Owning a black car is a labour of love. I’ve had five in the past, and keeping them looking good does take a lot of time and commitment. I’m not sure there are any products that’ll increase the hardness of a car’s paintwork to stop scratching (other than maybe paint protection film or vinyl wrapping the car, both of which are very expensive!). Some ceramic sealants might help prevent minor marring and scratching but the key to minimising paintwork scratches and swirls is primarily a good washing technique, once any scratches and swirls have been removed first.

The old school method of using a single bucket and sponge to wash with and a chamois leather to dry with will inflict swirls to a car’s paintwork, and with a black or any dark coloured car, they’ll be particularly noticeable in bright, sunny conditions. If your car is currently showing signs of scratches and swirls, and you already use - or intend to use a safe washing technique in future, then you might want to consider getting the paint work professionally corrected so you have a good scratch free and swirl free base to move forward from for the future.

A professional detailer will offer a range of services at varying prices that will involve decontamination of the paint work (remove iron and tar deposits and other surface contaminants) and correction/removal of the swirls and scratches by a number of machine polishing stages prior to applying a protective coating of a good wax or sealant. You should then have paintwork that’s in good condition, and it will be easier to keep it that way with a good washing technique. I invested in a dual action machine polisher a few years ago, and it’s paid for itself many times over, compared to what it would have cost me to get my car professionally detailed (I am OCD about my car’s paintwork, but fortunately enjoy car detailing ).

The key to minimising future swirling and scratching is minimal contact with the bodywork, so a pre-wash stage is worthwhile to remove most of the dirt before the main wash.
  • Pre-wash stage; Snow foam and pre-rinse to remove most of the dirt before making contact with the paintwork during the main wash. While the dirt is being loosened / soaked during the pre-wash, wash the wheels, and the difficult to clean areas such as grilles, door shuts, inside the filler flap etc.
  • Main wash; Two bucket wash method using a good quality ph neutral shampoo and wash mitt.
  • Drying stage; with good quality car drying towels or a warm air dryer.
Lots of information on websites such as Detailing World on safe, effective washing techniques.

It’s also worth considering investing in some good quality detailing brushes for those difficult to clean areas mentioned at the pre-wash stage above, and also worth investing in some wheel cleaning brushes so you can clean the wheel barrels as well as the front face of the wheels. I’ve got a set of Wheel Woolies; they’re not cheap, but if they’re looked after they’ll give many years of good service.

In my experience, using a clay bar won’t prevent further scratches - the primary function of using a clay bar is to remove embedded contaminants from the paintwork in preparation for applying wax or sealant. Always ensure that plenty of lubrication is used with a clay bar to prevent marring of the paintwork. Once a car has been clayed, the paintwork should feel super smooth, and provides a good base for applying waxes or sealants, as they’ll bond to the car’s paintwork much more effectively than they will on a car that hasn’t been clayed.

Hope the above is useful and gives you some food for thought.

I was a little shocked to spend £40 on a drying towel but it's so worth it. I personally favour pre wash over snow foam. I spend 2 hours washing the car and then the next day it needs a clean again.
 

Jaco2k

AWD FTW
Mar 11, 2018
1,037
633
Tampere, Finland
www.youtube.com
I got my car pristine and after driving it a bit now, that hood looks like the moon surface.
After the first two chips, I bought a kit to correct them but by now they are so many that I am just thinking at some point I will have it repainted and be done with it.
 

Andy ap

Active Member
Mar 23, 2010
74
2
Antrim
Owning a black car is a labour of love. I’ve had five in the past, and keeping them looking good does take a lot of time and commitment. I’m not sure there are any products that’ll increase the hardness of a car’s paintwork to stop scratching (other than maybe paint protection film or vinyl wrapping the car, both of which are very expensive!). Some ceramic sealants might help prevent minor marring and scratching but the key to minimising paintwork scratches and swirls is primarily a good washing technique, once any scratches and swirls have been removed first.

The old school method of using a single bucket and sponge to wash with and a chamois leather to dry with will inflict swirls to a car’s paintwork, and with a black or any dark coloured car, they’ll be particularly noticeable in bright, sunny conditions. If your car is currently showing signs of scratches and swirls, and you already use - or intend to use a safe washing technique in future, then you might want to consider getting the paint work professionally corrected so you have a good scratch free and swirl free base to move forward from for the future.

A professional detailer will offer a range of services at varying prices that will involve decontamination of the paint work (remove iron and tar deposits and other surface contaminants) and correction/removal of the swirls and scratches by a number of machine polishing stages prior to applying a protective coating of a good wax or sealant. You should then have paintwork that’s in good condition, and it will be easier to keep it that way with a good washing technique. I invested in a dual action machine polisher a few years ago, and it’s paid for itself many times over, compared to what it would have cost me to get my car professionally detailed (I am OCD about my car’s paintwork, but fortunately enjoy car detailing ).

The key to minimising future swirling and scratching is minimal contact with the bodywork, so a pre-wash stage is worthwhile to remove most of the dirt before the main wash.
  • Pre-wash stage; Snow foam and pre-rinse to remove most of the dirt before making contact with the paintwork during the main wash. While the dirt is being loosened / soaked during the pre-wash, wash the wheels, and the difficult to clean areas such as grilles, door shuts, inside the filler flap etc.
  • Main wash; Two bucket wash method using a good quality ph neutral shampoo and wash mitt.
  • Drying stage; with good quality car drying towels or a warm air dryer.
Lots of information on websites such as Detailing World on safe, effective washing techniques.

It’s also worth considering investing in some good quality detailing brushes for those difficult to clean areas mentioned at the pre-wash stage above, and also worth investing in some wheel cleaning brushes so you can clean the wheel barrels as well as the front face of the wheels. I’ve got a set of Wheel Woolies; they’re not cheap, but if they’re looked after they’ll give many years of good service.

In my experience, using a clay bar won’t prevent further scratches - the primary function of using a clay bar is to remove embedded contaminants from the paintwork in preparation for applying wax or sealant. Always ensure that plenty of lubrication is used with a clay bar to prevent marring of the paintwork. Once a car has been clayed, the paintwork should feel super smooth, and provides a good base for applying waxes or sealants, as they’ll bond to the car’s paintwork much more effectively than they will on a car that hasn’t been clayed.

Hope the above is useful and gives you some food for thought.[/Q

That's a great reply thanks for the insight.

I usually rinse the car with a hose first then with a microfiber noodle duster thingy wash the car with shampoo and wax presently being liberal with water solution application and never use it on the wheels too. (they're washed separately). But i think i'll just go back to regular shampoo, not liking the current stuff it goes streaky even with recommended ratios. Then dry down with a microfiber cloth. Never liked using chamois.

If i'm feeling particularly good for time (the wife isn't around) the car might get a gentle autoglym super resin polish but seeing as its shiny enough when clean i then usually go to meguiars tech wax (i've run out of the spray one which was brilliant) but now using their quick wax.... Which seems to take more buffing than i'd of thought for 'quick' wax.

I Don't tend to notice the scratches appearing when i wash it (yeah would be hard too wet) but turn up in day to day use. I once had a black Lupo Gti and i don't remember the paint ever being so easily marked.
 
Last edited:

Andy ap

Active Member
Mar 23, 2010
74
2
Antrim
In my opinion, the paint is very scratchable (all cars are) , you can definitely ruin the cars paint if you just go at it with a sponge and soapy water, I have washed all my cars at least once a week, some times twice, this nice weather we're having doesn't help either, the air is very sandy, I have just washed mine today and gave it a wax and it is already covered in a layer of dust/sand, I haven't even drove it today, a clay bar won't take the scratches away, but it will prevent them when your washing the car after it, I'm not a master at polishing or washing the car for that matter, but I normally pressure was first, then a wash, then pressure wash again, then a chamois, then a wax at least once a month, I use maguires 2.0 wax (it's called something like that, purple bottle) sorry I haven't really answered your question lol.
Yep I'm the same here give it a wash and the following day is covered in pollen and dust!
 
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