Mk2 FR 170 to a Mk3 FR184 not great.

[Compo1]

Finally sold on my trusted 170 yesterday to my son and moved over to the 184.

Shocked how much of a poor relation the 184 is to the 170 in the handling department.

Anyone else had similar thoughts when switching over ?

The 170 was mapped but ran on stock shocks and springs and in comparison to the 184 feels like a go cart firm and assured when pushed hard.

The 184 feels well soggy and not very confidence inspiring in my mind.

Only had a map, front splitter and side skirts planned but it now looks like at least a set of springs.

 

[silles]

if sporty handling is priority why not got the optional DCC?

 

[Speedbird]

I went from a Ford Kuga to my 184 so to me it feels like a go kart

Have you checked tyre pressures are all good and are they good quality tyres?

 

[Compo1]

Yeah Michelin all round, grips ok ishh its more the feeling of floating over bumps and roll in corners when going for it a bit.

 

[Compo1]

if sporty handling is priority why not got the optional DCC?

Very expensive option i understand.

 

[Big Col]

i think the problem is you are equating stiff = good handling

The 184 feels softer than my previous 2 cars yet ultimately it handles better.

Maybe also the different feeling of the independent rear suspension on the 184? They do feel different to cars with a rear beam.
The first time I drove a mk1 Focus I had a similar conclusion. It was softer but it handled a typical uk B road better.

 

[Compo1]

i think the problem is you are equating stiff = good handling

The 184 feels softer than my previous 2 cars yet ultimately it handles better.

Maybe also the different feeling of the independent rear suspension on the 184? They do feel different to cars with a rear beam.
The first time I drove a mk1 Focus I had a similar conclusion. It was softer but it handled a typical uk B road better.

The 170 is idependent on the rear also mate.

Roads are wet slippy ill see what it's like on my work run when its dry.

 

[Big Col]

d'oh, just ignore me - i'll get my coat

 

[RCampbell1]

"The 184 feels well soggy and not very confidence inspiring in my mind"

Totally agree mate. I had a FR184 for a couple of years and thought that it leaned excessively in corners, dived badly under heavy braking, pogoed for ages down the road if you hit a hump in the road at a fair clip and paradoxically also managed to be crashy over bad road surfaces. I hired a Golf Mk7.5 for a week and it did none of those things so I pretty much immediately traded in the Leon for one

 

[Compo1]

"The 184 feels well soggy and not very confidence inspiring in my mind"

Totally agree mate. I had a FR184 for a couple of years and thought that it leaned excessively in corners, dived badly under heavy braking, pogoed for ages down the road if you hit a hump in the road at a fair clip and paradoxically also managed to be crashy over bad road surfaces. I hired a Golf Mk7.5 for a week and it did none of those things so I pretty much immediately traded in the Leon for one

Thanks mate not just me then. Really shocked its like it is.

Im hoping i can fix it for a bit less money than a Golf though

 

[surrealjam]

Is it new or used?

 

[Compo1]

Is it new or used?

Used 21000 on clock. But ive drove 4 while looking all same. Had tracking checked yesterday and it needed no adjustment.

Guess its shocks and spring all round to bring it up to the standard of my 170

 

[NeilMcK]

Interesting topic - I've come from a Mk7 Golf Gti to a 184 SC FR (2015 just on 23k miles with 18" titanium pack wheels) and now I've had it a few months I notice the same kind of behaviour as Compo:

It tends to dance off cats eyes on the motorway.
Quite a lot of torque steer when pushing it hard overtaking when it crosses white lines (but a lot of that is the crappy Bridgestone Potenzas that are unfortunately brand new on the front, 4mm on rear). Golf did exactly that until I changed from Bridgestone.
Tends to wallow side to side on bumpy roads.(feeling from rear)
And scarily aquaplaned on the motorway the other week at a reasonable speed (75) with good tread on tyres.on a not deep puddle.

The golf only really skipped on very bad surfaces.

I've checked tyre pressures - set to comfort on fuel flap (36 Front, 33 Rear).

Going to get a 4-wheel alignment check in a week or so to see if that turns anything up.

But to me, it feels like the rear is under-damped - a quick bounce of each corner shows the proper 1.5 bounces, but the front is considerably stiffer than the rear. I wonder if the dampers can be knackered after 20k miles?

The car is an approved SEAT used car, 1 owner, so fully HPI-d, serviced, checked, warranty etc.

Interested to hear folks thoughts if it isn't the alignment?

Thanks,

Neil.

 

[Compo1]

Been driving mine 3 weeks and it still shocks me how poor it is.

If a damper and spring set does not cure it ill move it on.

 

[Mr Pig]

Could it not be said that current Seats in general aren't huge fun to drive?

The front-back balance is very good. They do actually have quite high levels of grip and react predictably and progressively when pushed to the edge. Steering is accurate at all speeds but....

There is nowhere near enough feedback from the wheel or chassis to allow the grip to be fully exploited. The suspension balance is often wrong, depending on model, with poor composure at high speed.

Puts trotters over head and runs for cover....

 

[BoomerBoom]

That's a fair assessment. I'm very happy with my Leon but that's coming from 20 years of people carriers - by comparison the Leon is an absolute joy to drive.

I don't think it's really possible to have a five seater C class car that could provide track performance straight from the showroom. It would be very uncomfortable on the road and dangerous in many situations for most drivers.

What we have is a compromise, particularly for the cupra, where it's safe and predictable for the majority but requires extensive modification to become a true racer.

If I had the inclination I'd rather start with a lightweight two seater and trailer it to track days, rather than try to make my daily drive into a go-cart.

 

[davidstarkey11]

Pretty sure some new springs would sort this out for you.

 

[NeilMcK]

I know suspension is an emotive subject and very personal to each person.

For me, I just feel it is underdamped - in terms of the high speed rebound damping (sorry, biker with fancy Ohlins that can be adjusted every which way - but never have - lol) is inadequate in a way that is disconcerting when hitting cats eyes on the motorway and on poor surfaces.

I find the handling to be great - crisp turn in and secure on smooth roads.

I took it down the A83 to Campbeltown a few days after I got it and thought "this is actually better handling than the Gti on these roads".

If anyone is heading to the west coast of Scotland I highly recommend the A83 from Tarbet on Loch Lomond to Campbeltown for scenery, bends, places to eat and generally light traffic. Sorry, unofficial tourist bit over.

BUT the more I've lived with it in varied conditions the more concerned I am that something isn't right (or deficient) as the Gti did not bounce in this way, best feeling I can described is "underdamped"

I'm not looking for a lower ride height, nor go-kart stiff, but a better damped experience, but I honestly have no clue what would be the best upgrade from stock, starting with the rear.

I've seen ads for bilstein b4, b6, b8 etc. but not sure what it all means, or if there is a similar/better choice - budget is not minimal, but not unlimited either, so any inputs gratefully accepted on what would give a similar ride firmness but with improved damping.

I'm near stirling in Scotland, but since I've never changed suspension on any car from stock so not sure if there are decent places nearby who could advise without making it go--kart stiff - which is not what I'm looking for.

I've seen a place in Larbert called pro-grip who offer 4-wheel alignment so might try there whilst I get it aligned.

Again, thanks for any inputs/thoughts.

Neil.

 

[Mr Pig]

For me, I just feel it is underdamped - in terms of the high speed rebound damping is inadequate in a way that is disconcerting when hitting cats eyes on the motorway and on poor surfaces.

I live in Scotland and our minor roads are superb, in the right car. It's not about 'racing' or ultimate speed. It's about the feelings of connection, confidence and control the car gives you. A car can be comfortable and still be a pleasure to drive down a back road. The frustrating thing is that the Seat cars I've driven are fundamentally well-balanced but let down by poor choice of suspension set up.

 

[kazand]

Could it not be said that current Seats in general aren't huge fun to drive?

The front-back balance is very good. They do actually have quite high levels of grip and react predictably and progressively when pushed to the edge. Steering is accurate at all speeds but....

There is nowhere near enough feedback from the wheel or chassis to allow the grip to be fully exploited. The suspension balance is often wrong, depending on model, with poor composure at high speed.

Puts trotters over head and runs for cover....

I've found the current 300 a lot more '''twitchy" than previous 280/290, although it is currently on Contis, that said the 290 came on the same. I've found all the MK3 versions 'different' to the MK2, previous R seemed a lot more rock solid . Have taken all versions round the same set route in Wales , and whilst the diff in the MK3 certainly improves things , the Mk2R was more 'fun'.