Jb1 Dyno only 320bhp, lots of timing pull

[arronleeds]

installed a jb1 yesterday, weather is pretty hot around 20c, took it for a drive felt noticeably faster, logged via obd11 and my car was pulling more than 4 degrees on every cylinder, cylinder 1 was pulling 7, 2 was pulling 5, 3 was pulling 6 and 4 was pulling 4.5.

Had it dynod today in map 1 and it only made 320bhp and 325ibft. Tuner said it was running really lean, but from what I’ve seen the stock afr levels are 14.7:1 which mine did.

Any advice on why I’m getting so much timing pull

 

[LouG]

14.7 is not optimum for good power. The tuners is right. Usually engines run 13:1 or richer at full load.
The timing is being retarded because of that lean mixture.

 

[Nora2004]

14.7 is not optimum for good power. The tuners is right. Usually engines run 13:1 or richer at full load.
The timing is being retarded because of that lean mixture.

Gotta remember this are direct injection, they will naturally run leaner than traditional port injection!

 

[Butty]

Tuner said it was running really lean, but from what I’ve seen the stock afr levels are 14.7:1 which mine did.

Did you try a run with the JB1 disconnected?
What were you looking at to see the 14.7 AFR? Do you have a log to post? Was the 14.7 AFR under full throttle/ part throttle/ entire dyno run?
Much more info is needed to help diagnose the problem.
Why didn't the tuner look into the problem more for you?

 

[arronleeds]

I didn’t no because I would hve had to get under the car, I only paid for a Dyno run, my printout says it’s running 14.7:1 from 2500rpm to around 4500rpm then at the top end drops to around 14:3.1

 

[arronleeds]

That’s whp in the graph, was 320 on the other graph, 325ibft.

I’m getting high timing pull il send another image

 

[arronleeds]

This was logged yesterday when it was around 20-22c

 

[Butty]

That’s whp in the graph, was 320 on the other graph, 325ibft.

I’m getting high timing pull il send another image

That AFR is too lean certainly above 3.5K rpm and especially at the top end for a moddified tune.
The std tune keeps to around 14.5 AFR until 5k rpm and then drops to IRO 13.5 AFR.
Check that the JB1 fuel pressure rail connectors are fully engaged.
If OK then try disconnecting the JB1, go for a drive to let timing recover and then log the timing again to see if it has changed.
You can then either blame the JB1 (not increasing fuel pressure?) or have to look at a fault with the car e.g faulty O2 sensor, fuel system issue.

 

[arronleeds]

That AFR is too lean certainly above 3.5K rpm and especially at the top end for a moddified tune.
The std tune keeps to around 14.5 AFR until 5k rpm and then drops to IRO 13.5 AFR.
Check that the JB1 fuel pressure rail connectors are fully engaged.
If OK then try disconnecting the JB1, go for a drive to let timing recover and then log the timing again to see if it has changed.
You can then either blame the JB1 (not increasing fuel pressure?) or have to look at a fault with the car e.g faulty O2 sensor, fuel system issue.

If I have a faulty O2 sensor would it flag on my obd11? Thanks for the info too

 

[arronleeds]

If I have a faulty O2 sensor would it flag on my obd11? Thanks for the info too

Also from what I can gather only the jb4 allows for the afr ratio to be changed

 

[arronleeds]

Got some more logs tonight, colder weather timing pull is a lot less, I even did a couple 100-200 runs and managed a 9.7 and a 10.1, so for a cupra only making an apparent 320bhp I’m happy.

 

[Nora2004]

I'm going to assume those afr readings are from a bung up the back of the exhaust on the Dyno?

 

[arronleeds]

I'm going to assume those afr readings are from a bung up the back of the exhaust on the Dyno?

Correct

 

[Nora2004]

Correct

Then I wouldn't read into the Afrs to much, the Dyno sniffer should show leaner readings as it's waaay after the cat! Not sure if OBDEleven can show the afr's, should do as we run a wideband sensor! One if the nice things of the jb4, realtime wideband readings!

 

[arronleeds]

What about the bad timing pull, air intake temp was around 40, could be the reason? This jb1 is on a stock map 1 according to the previous owner, said he never touched it, maybe my open fuel loop isn’t set correctly.

 

[Janusz]

Got some more logs tonight, colder weather timing pull is a lot less, I even did a couple 100-200 runs and managed a 9.7 and a 10.1, so for a cupra only making an apparent 320bhp I’m happy.

There is no chance to make 9.7 on 100-200 run with just 320bhp.
Stock cars make around 12 and most have around 290bhp.
How did you measure those times?

 

[arronleeds]

There is no chance to make 9.7 on 100-200 run with just 320bhp.
Stock cars make around 12 and most have around 290bhp.
How did you measure those times?

I used the lap timer, I deffo didn’t do 9.7, I must have stopped it too soon, I did a 10.1 too, I need to use my mates dragy and get a time, I managed a verified 5.9 60-100, my mates saying it must be more than 320bhp to make 5.9 60-100. I’m selling my r600 intake and getting rid of the jb1 and off to r tech for a custom map

 

[LouG]

Gotta remember this are direct injection, they will naturally run leaner than traditional port injection!

It makes little or no difference. Peak power is a function of volumetric and thermal efficiency. Ram as much fuel as the engine can efficiently burn for a given volume of air. Plus extra fuel to act as charge cooling to run maximum advance.
then spin it as fast as it can go, and you have maximum power output.
The advantage of direct injection is efficient burning of lean mixtures for emission control. It doesn't magically make extra power from those lean AFR's.

 

[arronleeds]

The jb1 is getting sold and I’m going to r tech for a stage 1 custom map, sort this crap timing out

 

[AndrewJB]

The jb1 is getting sold and I’m going to r tech for a stage 1 custom map, sort this crap timing out

Pretty sure R-Tech arent really touching the EA888 at the moment