Rust

[robby71]

Picked up a 2017 67 plate FR today which is in excellent condition - apart from some rust under the paint on the front wheel arch
I know this used to be a problem on Golfs where VW fitted a small piece of foam to stop the plastic arch touching the metal panel and this held loisture which then started the corrosion process but i didn't expect it still to be happening many years later (thought VAG would have stopped fitting the foam by now?).
Has anyone else had this?
It should be covered by the corrosion warranty so i'll call into the dealers on monday

 

[Brimfull]

A two year old car with rust

Sounds like a very bad repair job in the area where the rust is. Possibly a stone chip repair or similar.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[robby71]

Nope - not even a tiny chip in sight

 

[Compo1]

Corrosion warranty take it to a dealer mate should not happen.

If it has had a repair there dealer will wriggle out of it unless you purchased it like that from a Seat Dealer.

 

[SRGTD]

Picked up a 2017 67 plate FR today which is in excellent condition - apart from some rust under the paint on the front wheel arch

@robby71; Corrosion shouldn’t be happening on a car that new. The body shell and panels are fully galvanised during the car’s build process, so it does sound like that part of the wheel arch may have had a substandard repair if it’s rusting so early on in the car’s life. On the mk4 and mk5 Golfs that suffered from the front wheel arch corrosion problem (not all of them did), it didn’t usually appear until cars were around 5 years old or older. VW Passats built around the same time as the mk4 and mk5 Golf also suffered from this problem.

Could it be that it is dirt under the paint rather than a corrosion issue? I had a VW with dirt under the paint on one of the sills - attributed to the body shell not being cleansed fully between the galvanisation process and painting in the factory. At first glance it looked like rust, but it wasn’t. Are you able to post a picture of the affected area on your car?

Be aware that;

• if it is rust that originated from stone chip damage, Seat may maintain the corrosion has been caused by an ‘external influence’ so it may not be covered under the corrosion warranty, which if it’s like VW’s corrosion warranty (and I suspect it will be), the warranty only covers rusting through from the inside to the outside of a panel and not as a result of painted surfaces being damaged by an external object such as a stones.
• for a warranty claim, the Seat dealer is likely to take paint depth readings to check for differences in paint thickness between the affected area and surrounding paintwork. Any differences in paint thickness would indicate a repair, and if there’s no evidence the repair was undertaken by a Seat approved repairer, then Seat may not entertain a warranty claim.

However, if you’ve only just got the car today and if you bought it from a Seat dealer as an approved used vehicle, then even if it’s not covered under the corrosion warranty, hopefully they’ll put it right for you.

Keep us updated on how you get on.

 

[robby71]

Car was bought from Motorpoint a lot cheaper than a dealers, they agreed to do the repair saying they need it for 3 days? but i'd prefer to have it done at an authorised bodyshop which is why i'm going to the dealers next week to see if they'll agree to it under warranty (motorpoint would probably do a smart repair).

I'll get some pics up tommorow after it's been washed - properly

Their specialized guy had a look when i pointed it out and came up with all excuses -
might be some overspray from another car that got caught?
should buff out?
will come out with wet/dry?

Looks to me it'll need sanding back to bare metal, primer, paint, lacquer - definately under paint

 

[Yern]

will come out with wet/dry?

Course it will, rubs all the lacquer and paint off!

 

[robby71]

Course it will, rubs all the lacquer and paint off!

LOL - these so called experts think all customers are thick - i told him it was under the paint and lacquer but he still tried to blag it )

 

[robby71]

Pics taken - can't see any chip in the paint so it's definatelt from behind

 

[Rooster]

The pictures a bit grainy on my PC, but that looks possibly like whats called "dirt inclusion" under the paint surface. That should have been easy to spot though before it left the factory? or pdi? so maybe it's had some paintwork repairs in that area.

 

[SRGTD]

The pictures a bit grainy on my PC, but that looks possibly like whats called "dirt inclusion" under the paint surface. That should have been easy to spot though before it left the factory? or pdi? so maybe it's had some paintwork repairs in that area.

Yes, it does look as if it might be dirt under the paint rather than rust. The front wings shouldn’t really be that susceptible to ‘through corrosion’ from behind, unless the plastic wheel arch liner is missing or damaged, allowing road dirt and debris to accumulate under the wing. However, even without a wheel arch liner, I wouldn’t expect a 67 reg car that’s less than two years old with a galvanised body to be rusting.

Seat have a 3 year paintwork warranty - from the Leon price list;

Three-year Paint Warranty
The paintwork of all models featured in this price list is covered against manufacturing defects for a period of three years. Naturally, the vehicle must be cared for in compliance with the operating instructions which will be found in your vehicle handbook. Please consult your authorised SEAT Dealer or repairer for full warranty details.

If the wing hasn’t been repaired/repainted then I think @robby71 would stand a greater chance of success getting it rectified under the paintwork warranty. The Seat dealer will take paint depth readings to ensure all the paint is original before submitting a warranty claim to Seat for authorisation. If a repair is authorised, there’s always a risk of the new paint not being a 100% match with the existing paintwork, although if a body shop uses spectrophotometer paint matching technology, the risk of paint mismatch should be pretty much eliminated

With the dirt under the paint on the sill of my VW I never got it repainted, as it was in a location that you wouldn’t notice it if you weren’t aware of it, and I didn’t want to risk the new paint not matching the factory paint.

@robby71; please provide an update to the forum, once you’ve taken your car to the Seat dealer for inspection.

Edit; @robby71; based on what I’ve read on some other forums, VW do seem to be taking a much harder line on warranty claims - presumably a consequence of the cost of Dieselgate and VW now trying to try and reduce costs where they can. I wouldn’t be surprised if a similar approach is being applied by the rest of the VW / Audi group, so be prepared for the dealer to try and fob you off by saying it’s been caused by an ‘external influence’ and isn’t the result of a production defect.

 

[robby71]

Well called into the dealers bodyshop to be told he's 100% certain it's not rust - it's from where there had been a dent and a dentman has worked it out from behind the panel???????
Surely if he'd worked a dent out there wouldn't be this left behind?

 

[SRGTD]

Well called into the dealers bodyshop to be told he's 100% certain it's not rust - it's from where there had been a dent and a dentman has worked it out from behind the panel???????
Surely if he'd worked a dent out there wouldn't be this left behind?

Agree - a skilled PDR technician would never produce a result like that.

If that’s the result of a PDR repair, then it’s a very amateurish attempt. IMO it’s highly unlikely the result of a poor PDR repair though - more likely dirt under the paint.

I’ve had a parking ding removed using the PDR repair method. The guy doing the repair was happy for me to watch him work, and he had a fluorescent light tube adjacent to the repair so he could check that the reflection of the illuminated tube in the bodywork panel showed no irregular distortions once he’d finished the repair. If there were any, then he continued working on the area and when he’d finished, you’d never know there’d been a ding in the panel. No skilled PDR operative would leave a achieve a poor outcome like the area on your wing, and I’d be very surprised if any customer would accept that as the result of a PDR repair.

There’s lots of videos on YouTube of PDR work. If you watch a few of them I doubt any would show an end result like the area on your wing.

If the dealer is 100% certain it’s not rust (and it’s highly unlikely to be a poor PDR repair), provided it’s not a conventional repair where the panel wasn’t cleaned thoroughly before repainting, then it’ll almost certainly be dirt under the original paint. If it is, then it might be worth contacting Seat Customer Services to see if they can help, as you ought to be able to peruse a claim under the 3 year paintwork warranty.

If you know someone with a paint thickness gauge (PTG) it’d be worth getting them to check for differences in paint thickness on and around the affected area so you can be certain it’s not been repainted. If you don’t know anyone with a PTG, then you could get a professional detailer to check for you - it’d only take them a couple of minutes so there’s a good chance they’d not charge you.

Good luck. Please continue to keep us informed of progress and the outcome.

 

[robby71]

Agree - a skilled PDR technician would never produce a result like that.

If that’s the result of a PDR repair, then it’s a very amateurish attempt. IMO it’s highly unlikely the result of a poor PDR repair though - more likely dirt under the paint.

I’ve had a parking ding removed using the PDR repair method. The guy doing the repair was happy for me to watch him work, and he had a fluorescent light tube adjacent to the repair so he could check that the reflection of the illuminated tube in the bodywork panel showed no irregular distortions once he’d finished the repair. If there were any, then he continued working on the area and when he’d finished, you’d never know there’d been a ding in the panel. No skilled PDR operative would leave a achieve a poor outcome like the area on your wing, and I’d be very surprised if any customer would accept that as the result of a PDR repair.

There’s lots of videos on YouTube of PDR work. If you watch a few of them I doubt any would show an end result like the area on your wing.

If the dealer is 100% certain it’s not rust (and it’s highly unlikely to be a poor PDR repair), provided it’s not a conventional repair where the panel wasn’t cleaned thoroughly before repainting, then it’ll almost certainly be dirt under the original paint. If it is, then it might be worth contacting Seat Customer Services to see if they can help, as you ought to be able to peruse a claim under the 3 year paintwork warranty.

If you know someone with a paint thickness gauge (PTG) it’d be worth getting them to check for differences in paint thickness on and around the affected area so you can be certain it’s not been repainted. If you don’t know anyone with a PTG, then you could get a professional detailer to check for you - it’d only take them a couple of minutes so there’s a good chance they’d not charge you.

Good luck. Please continue to keep us informed of progress and the outcome.

I've had a couple of PDR repairs in the past, 1 used levers from behind the panel and the other used a small hammer and a type of punch to work around the edge of the dent until it sprung out.
This "repair" if it was that i'm sure wouldn't have been accepted by whoever paid the PDR specialist and even an amateur PDR guy wouldn't have left it like this.
I'm going to try another bodyshop to see what they say and if they agree it's something under the paint i'll try another SEAT dealer when i'm off work in a few weeks.

 

[jt20vt]

Looks like rust bubbles and lifting of the paint to me, I no expert but even if you had a body shop do a repair most would make it good and not leave it looking like that.

 

[robby71]

Looks like rust bubbles and lifting of the paint to me, I no expert but even if you had a body shop do a repair most would make it good and not leave it looking like that.

That's what i think - i'd like to be there if they start the repair and scrape the top part off to see if there's any rust under the paint before they sand it down to metal

 

[robby71]

Got an email estimate from the dealer i called at yesterday - rectify defect and blend into rest of wing and door - £531.12 !!!!!!!!

Estimate Information
Area
Damage Type
Cost
L/H/F Wing
Clever Repair
310.60
L/H/F Door
Blend
132.00
VAT (20%)
88.52
TOTAL
531.12

 

[black_sheep]

The easiest way to find out if it’s had a repair in that area previously is to get a body shop to use a paint depth gauge to measure the paint across several areas of the car - if no repairs, should be consistent (albeit, paint is usually thinner on the body work creases).

The photo that you have taken appears to show some holograming of the clear coat and/or some evidence of sanding in the area that has not been fully polished out, indicating that paint correction has taken place in that area.

It might also be worth getting an independent check done by RAC etc, and use this to fight the dealer to repair, either via Seat customer Service Executive Department or small claims court.

 

[robby71]

Well had wheels off today to give them a thorough clean and seal back and front so looked behind the arch liner on the front wing.
On the back of the actual wing there are indeed several scratch, dent marks in the area of what i thought was rust 0 looks like the bodyshop were correct and the defect is from a crap attempt at dent removal - why push the deny out too far and probably make it look worse than it was?
Now to try and find a proper dent guy who can rectify this - good that it doesn't need panels painting but i hope it doesn't cause the paint to chip by knocking it back

 

[SRGTD]

Well had wheels off today to give them a thorough clean and seal back and front so looked behind the arch liner on the front wing.
On the back of the actual wing there are indeed several scratch, dent marks in the area of what i thought was rust 0 looks like the bodyshop were correct and the defect is from a crap attempt at dent removal - why push the deny out too far and probably make it look worse than it was?
Now to try and find a proper dent guy who can rectify this - good that it doesn't need panels painting but i hope it doesn't cause the paint to chip by knocking it back

@robby71; I can only think that the previous owner must’ve been self-taught in the art of PDR after watching a few PDR videos on YouTube. They then bought some PDR tools and thought they’d learned enough to do a decent job of dent / ding removal but unfortunately, the result shows otherwise!

Good luck in finding a good PDR technician; they are out there. The guy I used was an independent with his own PDR business and his work was excellent. He had a contract with many of the main motor dealers in my area to remove parking dings on part exchanges before they were prepared ready for resale. He was very busy when I contacted him, which I think is sign of a good tradesman.

Hope you get it sorted soon.