Bye bye Leon, Hello Golf

RUM4MO

Active Member
Jun 4, 2008
7,784
983
South Scotland
Unit price is the same, that's what @Maypack is saying but dependent on which badge you buy it from the price differs:yes:
I have been buying common usage VW Group parts for about 20 years, the price charged is the price listed against that individual part number, regardless if it is bought from an Audi or VW or SEAT or Skoda dealership.

Some one is telling silly stories!

Edit:- all these parts come with all the same branding on the packaging, ie standard VW Group branding.
 

RUM4MO

Active Member
Jun 4, 2008
7,784
983
South Scotland
It’s called Markup. Unit cost to make may be the same but price to customer is very different depending on who sells it.

You may think it’s BS and that’s your opinion but I disagree and I’m sure others will agree with me.


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If that is genuinely what you are finding, and not just a message you found written on a toilet wall, then you should name and shame that outlet as that should not be happening.
 

Jaco2k

AWD FTW
Mar 11, 2018
1,037
633
Tampere, Finland
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When I was earlier this year at the ice track, there was a guy with an Audi S3 - I jokingly said "We have the same car!" and he stared long and blankly at me and said "no, it's not"
After I did a few laps running circles around him he changed his mind ;)
...second day he came to me and said "you know... We have the nicest cars here!"
I felt that was as far as he could go ;)

Gotta give him that his exhaust note was miles away better than mine!
 

Jaco2k

AWD FTW
Mar 11, 2018
1,037
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Tampere, Finland
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...and just to add another line of thought here, cars engineering and parts might be the same, but I am sure the production tolerances aren't...
Meaning that parts that don't pass the Audi criteria and have minor flaws might be demoted to be Seat/Skoda parts and might have lower life expectancy or performance.
Same goes for engines, turbos, etc.
 

Tara

Active Member
Jan 21, 2008
591
215
Bournemouth
I love my Cupra but to say it's built just the same as a new audi or the same as an S3 is crazy even though it's as quick , S3 feels much more Premium inside using better materials and even the doors sound nice when they close plus they are 4 wheel drive so you cant really compare them and on a wet British country road the Audi wins the same as a Golf R would , Cupra is a great car and can easily hold it's own in the dry but off the line and in the wet it's second best along with Build but that's just me.
 

Jaco2k

AWD FTW
Mar 11, 2018
1,037
633
Tampere, Finland
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I love my Cupra but to say it's built just the same as a new audi or the same as an S3 is crazy even though it's as quick , S3 feels much more Premium inside using better materials and even the doors sound nice when they close plus they are 4 wheel drive so you cant really compare them and on a wet British country road the Audi wins the same as a Golf R would , Cupra is a great car and can easily hold it's own in the dry but off the line and in the wet it's second best along with Build but that's just me.

Not all Cupras are FWD ;)
 
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bgb

Active Member
Jan 22, 2019
600
316
I love my Cupra but to say it's built just the same as a new audi or the same as an S3 is crazy even though it's as quick , S3 feels much more Premium inside using better materials and even the doors sound nice when they close plus they are 4 wheel drive so you cant really compare them and on a wet British country road the Audi wins the same as a Golf R would , Cupra is a great car and can easily hold it's own in the dry but off the line and in the wet it's second best along with Build but that's just me.

S3 to a Leon Cupra the build quality will be substantial, its more so Golf>Leon.

The only noticeable difference i had was sound deadening in wheel arches (stone flicks are like meteors) and felt linings. Other than that my Cupra has blown me away with the quality of a 'lower in food chain' car..

One thing though, S3 to have ANY mod con is a substantial price increase, it's eye watering! The other half's sister got a TT Quattro and no cheapo one, basically a TTS without the tune and it's wing mirrors don't even fold!! £250 for that liberty!
 

Tara

Active Member
Jan 21, 2008
591
215
Bournemouth
S3 to a Leon Cupra the build quality will be substantial, its more so Golf>Leon.

The only noticeable difference i had was sound deadening in wheel arches (stone flicks are like meteors) and felt linings. Other than that my Cupra has blown me away with the quality of a 'lower in food chain' car..

One thing though, S3 to have ANY mod con is a substantial price increase, it's eye watering! The other half's sister got a TT Quattro and no cheapo one, basically a TTS without the tune and it's wing mirrors don't even fold!! £250 for that liberty!

Totally agree with cost and bang for buck the Cupra wins hands down .
 

Deleted member 103408

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Well I am sure the op is happy we all agree on something.

Enjoy your new car it looks very nice.
 
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KXL

KXL
Dec 15, 2016
1,581
197
London, UK
When I was earlier this year at the ice track, there was a guy with an Audi S3 - I jokingly said "We have the same car!" and he stared long and blankly at me and said "no, it's not"
After I did a few laps running circles around him he changed his mind ;)
...second day he came to me and said "you know... We have the nicest cars here!"
I felt that was as far as he could go ;)

Gotta give him that his exhaust note was miles away better than mine!

You have the ST 4drive isn't it? Else was wondering how can a FWD do better than a 4wd on an ice track...were u guys using studded tyres or just regular winters?
 

RUM4MO

Active Member
Jun 4, 2008
7,784
983
South Scotland
...and just to add another line of thought here, cars engineering and parts might be the same, but I am sure the production tolerances aren't...
Meaning that parts that don't pass the Audi criteria and have minor flaws might be demoted to be Seat/Skoda parts and might have lower life expectancy or performance.
Same goes for engines, turbos, etc.

If you look on a proper VW Group parts listing, you will see that where possible common parts are being used, so no reduction in tolerance or quality between the top and bottom marques. One issue can be where common components are being manufactured in different countries, that should not but can change the quality of the final assembly - but where a few different marques are having similar platforms assembled in that "other" countries, all the marques cars produced will suffer that quality change in these locally assembled parts.

At times, Audi will be the lead marque to bring a new or revised part to market, and yes in that case, for a short time, the Audi version will have superior component(s) fitted, but the other marques will catch up.

I have been lucky so far when buying my cars as both my cars have had engines that where initially Audi only used engines, what I can not quite understand is where people buy an Audi thinking it is a superior brand - then spec it up with a commonly used VW engine - then complain when they suffer frequent engine issues, which Audi tend to just shrug off and charge a fortune to repair without trying to challenge the "VW Group Mothership" for some redress.

Where Audi only used parts exist, they are quite pricy, for instance, taking a front grill assembly as an example, the Audi part will be made up of maybe 11 parts, each part can be bought by itself if damaged, so repairs can be a lot cheaper, the similar VW part will be made up of 5 parts so repair could be slightly more expensive, the SEAT part will be made up of 2 parts, and the Skoda part will be 1 part, so most expensive is only slight damage has occurred and cheapest if that part is completely wrecked. That is logical in this set up as it is the initial price to complete a car that is important - which is why people still are complaining about the 3 pistol windscreen sprayers and small issues like that.

Edit:- or anyone interested in minor things, I found that the wiring harness for the rear hatch in my wife's 2015 SA built Polo was manufactured by VW Boswana, I did not expect that!
 

SRGTD

Active Member
May 26, 2014
2,388
1,279
...and just to add another line of thought here, cars engineering and parts might be the same, but I am sure the production tolerances aren't...
Meaning that parts that don't pass the Audi criteria and have minor flaws might be demoted to be Seat/Skoda parts and might have lower life expectancy or performance.
Same goes for engines, turbos, etc.

It would be interesting to see VAG warranty claim statistics by brand to see if they support your line of thought.

Warranty Direct’s reliability index for the Audi A3, Seat Leon, Skoda Octavia and VW Golf paints an interesting picture. The higher the reliability index, the less reliable the car;

Audi A3; ave age 5.27 years, ave mileage 56.899, reliability index 139
Seat Leon; ave age 5.04 years, ave mileage 53,333, reliability index 166
Skoda Octavia; ave age 5.12 years, ave mileage 55,059, reliability index 95
VW Golf; ave age 3.82 years, ave mileage 46,838, reliability index 91

The average age and mileage of vehicles in the Warranty Direct stats for the Audi, Seat and Skoda are very similar so comparing these three against each other is probably a valid comparison. The average age of the Golf is lower, with a lower average mileage, which probably explains the higher reliability index, as cars generally become less reliable as they get older.

High level summary stats don’t tell the whole story, so should always be taken with a pinch of salt as there will be other factors that could have a bearing on reliability. However, with the Octavia having a better reliability index than a similar age and mileage A3, this suggests there isn’t a pecking order for components and parts within VAG, based on the manufacturing quality of those components and parts, otherwise the Octavia would have a poorer reliability index than the A3.
 

Tara

Active Member
Jan 21, 2008
591
215
Bournemouth
Reliability is another story but at the beginning of the thread he said it's just a better built more refined car than the Leon and I pretty much agree on that , like I said I'm happy with my Cupra but there is no getting away from the fact that they have their fair share of plastic inside.
 

LouG

Active Member
Dec 1, 2017
1,319
481
Nelson, New Zealand
...and just to add another line of thought here, cars engineering and parts might be the same, but I am sure the production tolerances aren't...
Meaning that parts that don't pass the Audi criteria and have minor flaws might be demoted to be Seat/Skoda parts and might have lower life expectancy or performance.
Same goes for engines, turbos, etc.
I greatly doubt that. For instance, a turbo manufacturer makes two types of the same turbo, one for Audi and one for SEAT? Or QC rejects an Audi unit and it then goes to SEAT?
Then extend that to all the thousands of parts in a car? Suppliers would suggest that VAG make love elsewhere.
The reason they use the same parts is cost amortisation. Buy more parts, pay less unit cost.
 

LouG

Active Member
Dec 1, 2017
1,319
481
Nelson, New Zealand
It would be interesting to see VAG warranty claim statistics by brand to see if they support your line of thought.

Warranty Direct’s reliability index for the Audi A3, Seat Leon, Skoda Octavia and VW Golf paints an interesting picture. The higher the reliability index, the less reliable the car;

Audi A3; ave age 5.27 years, ave mileage 56.899, reliability index 139
Seat Leon; ave age 5.04 years, ave mileage 53,333, reliability index 166
Skoda Octavia; ave age 5.12 years, ave mileage 55,059, reliability index 95
VW Golf; ave age 3.82 years, ave mileage 46,838, reliability index 91

The average age and mileage of vehicles in the Warranty Direct stats for the Audi, Seat and Skoda are very similar so comparing these three against each other is probably a valid comparison. The average age of the Golf is lower, with a lower average mileage, which probably explains the higher reliability index, as cars generally become less reliable as they get older.

High level summary stats don’t tell the whole story, so should always be taken with a pinch of salt as there will be other factors that could have a bearing on reliability. However, with the Octavia having a better reliability index than a similar age and mileage A3, this suggests there isn’t a pecking order for components and parts within VAG, based on the manufacturing quality of those components and parts, otherwise the Octavia would have a poorer reliability index than the A3.
One issue I've seen is what is defined as reliability, and owners perception of quality and tolerance of small failures.
I don't consider a bulb failing to be an indicator of unreliability, but some owners do. Possibly because many owners are totally incapable of even changing a bulb, so get hit by dealer charges.
 

Mr Pig

Active Member
Jun 17, 2015
2,614
906
There is no way they'll use reject or lower tolerance parts on Seat/Skoda cars, parts production simply doesn't work that way. Parts are good or fail, that's it.

What does happen is that the different brands will use parts from different suppliers. While 60% of the car might be the same that still leaves 40% that's different. The Golf and Leon might share exactly the same chassis, suspension arms, engine etc but Seat might buy dampers, springs, switches and lots of other parts from different suppliers and this is one of the places they can save money.
 
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Kirky

Copper Cupra Advocate
Apr 10, 2019
1,042
497
...and just to add another line of thought here, cars engineering and parts might be the same, but I am sure the production tolerances aren't...
Meaning that parts that don't pass the Audi criteria and have minor flaws might be demoted to be Seat/Skoda parts and might have lower life expectancy or performance.
Same goes for engines, turbos, etc.

Mercedes do this so wouldn't surprise me if VAG do it too.
 

Tara

Active Member
Jan 21, 2008
591
215
Bournemouth
I dont think its the parts but a load of Spaniards coming back for the afternoon shift after i nice siesta with a belly full of sangria lol.
 
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