MOT FAIL - Reverse Light Switch

[everson38]

Hey guys

Car: Seat Ibiza 1.4 SC SE 2009

So had MOT today and failed . Like a noob I forgot the reverse light to check and it is not working.

They tried a new bulb but still not working so hoping for a fuse issue.

1) Does anyone know the which fuse is the reverse one? As now seemed to have lost manual

2) If it's not the fuse / bulb what else could it be / do I need to check next?

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[Bedlam]

This may help https://fuse-box.info/seat/seat-ibiza-mk4-6j-2008-2015-fuses#2009

 

[everson38]

Well to anyone who maybe reading this. Turns out the council MOT test centre mad a mistake they thought that my car had 2 reverse lights as I guess from the back the seat ibiza do look like they have two matching reverse light. But after checking manual and also remove the lights and comparing the two bulb assemblies the drivers side does not have a physical location to put a bulb in , hence no lighting up of the bulb.

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[kanyewest]

Well to anyone who maybe reading this. Turns out the council MOT test centre mad a mistake they thought that my car had 2 reverse lights as I guess from the back the seat ibiza do look like they have two matching reverse light. But after checking manual and also remove the lights and comparing the two bulb assemblies the drivers side does not have a physical location to put a bulb in , hence no lighting up of the bulb.

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my 6L has two white spots, one is the fog light and one is the reverse light. do you not have a rear fog?

 

[everson38]

my 6L has two white spots, one is the fog light and one is the reverse light. do you not have a rear fog?

Hey Kanye. Well I took the lights apart and had a look. If you look at the green areas. There is a bulb which is the reverse light (left) but look on the right there is no means if even putting a reverse bulb. Then if u look in the red section there dies appear to be a bulb missing but upon trying to put a bulb there it is just an empty hole it has no electrical switch underneath compare to other red side so it wouldn't turn on anyway. So if u put a bulb in there it is just loosely rattling around

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[RUM4MO]

Strange - maybe!

So from memory/logic, on the RHS and LHS side you should have an indicator bulb and a tail/stop bulb or maybe a tail/stop and another smaller tail bulb, then on the RHS a rear fog bulb and on the LHS a reversing bulb.

Does that sound logical and correct?

 

[RUM4MO]

My previous posting assumes that you have an SC and not 5 door, though if it was a 5 door, some of the bulbs I mentioned would be in the hatch mounted light cluster, if 5 door Ibizas have that, I have forgotten as never worked on a 5 door. Seems quite a difference between the RHS and LHS though.

 

[everson38]

My previous posting assumes that you have an SC and not 5 door, though if it was a 5 door, some of the bulbs I mentioned would be in the hatch mounted light cluster, if 5 door Ibizas have that, I have forgotten as never worked on a 5 door. Seems quite a difference between the RHS and LHS though.

Now bare with me as I say it's. My car but it is actually moms car so only look when I can. But yes the car is a 3 door 1.4 SC mk5. Upon removal the RHS and LHS BOTH have an indicator / Brake light and there is another bulb they both have buy cannot remember what it controls. Now where they differ. When looking from the back of the car - the left side has a white reverse light but no Fog light. And the right has no reverse light but a fog light. I've checked this against my sister 1.2 TSI 62 Plate and she only has one reverse light (Left side also) but she don't have front fog lights so not sure if she has a rear fog light either to check that.

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[RUM4MO]

Sorry, okay you made the 3 or 5 door bit clear in your opening post.

In general, and with all these cars for sure, the offside will always have a high intensity rear fog light and the nearside will always have a reversing light, and means only one of each on each car, some other cars might still have 2 reversing lights and even 2 rear high intensity fog lights.

So having one of each is considered the norm and so for your mum's car to be fit for use in UK it must have a single reversing light it seems according to your MOT failure.

So, what to do now, well it looks like the rear high intensity fog light is fitted and working as if not it would have failed the MOT, which just proves that the reversing light bulb and the rear high intensity fog bulb are not located in the same point in the opposite bulb holder - which they did tend to be in past where rear cluster design demanded that be so due to lack of space.

You should rightly or wrongly assume that if the reversing light bulb is okay and its fuse is okay, from a list that I made up for my daughter's late 2009 Ibiza 1.4 SC, fuse 05 which is a mini fuse red 10.0Amp is the fuse for the reversing light. That means, when you pull off the fuse/OBDE trim/cover, the fuse you need to check is the 5th fuse in from the LHS and on the top row, you will see that the layout of that fuse box is - on the LHS, 3 rows of mini fuses namely 1>8, 9>16, 17>24 from top row to bottom row. Then 25>41 and 42>58 for the RHS group of ATO sized fuses - all numbering read from left to right it seems!

Next if need be, from Haynes 6R Polo repair manual, the reversing light switch is screwed into the front of the casing on the 02T gearbox (5 speed petrol models). From the picture shown, it appears to have 2 wires, so maybe unplug that lead and short these 2 wires together to see if that switches the reversing light on when the ignition is switched on, if it does then replacing that switch should sort things out - when you look under the bonnet make sure that there is no wiring damage showing.

 

['& Son' managed]

The fitting of rear fog lights have been UK/EU law from about 1981, so all UK-market cars
have had to have them ever since. Front fogs are optional.
In most cases rear fogs are integral with the main rear light cluster, apart from some 1980's
models and some later Jap-built cars, (Lexus, Daihatsu) that had to add them as extras in
the bootlid or rear bumper.

 

[RUM4MO]

Correct!

I did just happen to own 2 Ford Escort MK2 Ghia 1600 and both had the horrible add on rear fog light, probably complete with an equally horrible add on switch! Possibly a 1977 and 1979 model.

 

[everson38]

Sorry, okay you made the 3 or 5 door bit clear in your opening post.

In general, and with all these cars for sure, the offside will always have a high intensity rear fog light and the nearside will always have a reversing light, and means only one of each on each car, some other cars might still have 2 reversing lights and even 2 rear high intensity fog lights.

So having one of each is considered the norm and so for your mum's car to be fit for use in UK it must have a single reversing light it seems according to your MOT failure.

So, what to do now, well it looks like the rear high intensity fog light is fitted and working as if not it would have failed the MOT, which just proves that the reversing light bulb and the rear high intensity fog bulb are not located in the same point in the opposite bulb holder - which they did tend to be in past where rear cluster design demanded that be so due to lack of space.

You should rightly or wrongly assume that if the reversing light bulb is okay and its fuse is okay, from a list that I made up for my daughter's late 2009 Ibiza 1.4 SC, fuse 05 which is a mini fuse red 10.0Amp is the fuse for the reversing light. That means, when you pull off the fuse/OBDE trim/cover, the fuse you need to check is the 5th fuse in from the LHS and on the top row, you will see that the layout of that fuse box is - on the LHS, 3 rows of mini fuses namely 1>8, 9>16, 17>24 from top row to bottom row. Then 25>41 and 42>58 for the RHS group of ATO sized fuses - all numbering read from left to right it seems!

Next if need be, from Haynes 6R Polo repair manual, the reversing light switch is screwed into the front of the casing on the 02T gearbox (5 speed petrol models). From the picture shown, it appears to have 2 wires, so maybe unplug that lead and short these 2 wires together to see if that switches the reversing light on when the ignition is switched on, if it does then replacing that switch should sort things out - when you look under the bonnet make sure that there is no wiring damage showing.

Hey Rum, thanks for this. So to clarify you believe that they are correct and the car should have a reserve light on both sides?

Ive found a picture of a seat from behind to try illustrate clearly what is going on, its an fr but i believe the rear lights are the same on my mom mk5 1.4 (see pics attached). Pic 1: Is jus so you can see things clearly, Pic 2: is what is working and not working & what i tested (sort of).

1) I tested all the fuses and they all are fine and working.
2) If you look at pic 2: The green areas are the "Reverse lights" what are illuminating and not illuminating marked with a Tick for working and a Cross for not working. The same has been done in red for the rear fog light - showing the side that is working and not working.

3) The yellow shows something i remember i did - i took the Left hand side light cluster circuit board and attached it onto the right hand sides electrical connector, now obvious it would sit into the hight area properly due to being on wrong side but the reverse light did light up when i went into reverse gear. so isnt this confirming that the wiring / electricals are working fine sine it lit up the other side?

4) i have uploaded the orignal picture of the bulb clusters, matching to the side / colour coding of the rear of the seat. and again it seems to me that the reverse light cannot illuinate on the RHS due to not having a means to do so, the same with the LHS rear fog light, again no means to do so?

Hope this helps, and please share thoughts, as mom has to take it back on friday, not for a re-test just the tester wants to look himself. We did also call seat and it is 1 reverse light and the manual also confirms this.


I forgot also - i cant remeber is i tested the RHS cluster on the left hand side electrical connector but that is surely irrelevant no??

 

[RUM4MO]

The clusters would need to be connected to their correct side connectors as there will be unused pins in both.

So your picture confirms that the reversing and fog light positions are not the same, so that ties in with what you are seeing looking at the bulb side of the two clusters.

My only other issue with the cluster pictures is, there seems to be one bulb missing from the RHS cluster, ie both should have the same number of bulbs, just one side has one missing for the unused reversing light and the other side one missing for the unused fog side, what I am seeing is one bulb missing in the middle roughly on the side that has the indicator and the stop/tail + extra tail light, that is probably completely irrelevant but still not right as these cars probably pass an MOT with only one tail light working in each cluster.

So, back to your problem, you need to get the cables back into the car if possible (I seem to remember just wrapping them up in a poly bag when I was drying out and resealing the rear clusters of that late 2009 Ibiza), fit the clusters to their own connectors, put the car into reverse and switch the ignition on, then check remove the reverse bulb and carefully probe between its earth and +12V contact, if nothing there, check between +12V contact and a good body metalwork point to see if you can get 12V on a meter, doing that will go a long way to finding out what next to look at/for.

 

[everson38]

The clusters would need to be connected to their correct side connectors as there will be unused pins in both.

So your picture confirms that the reversing and fog light positions are not the same, so that ties in with what you are seeing looking at the bulb side of the two clusters.

My only other issue with the cluster pictures is, there seems to be one bulb missing from the RHS cluster, ie both should have the same number of bulbs, just one side has one missing for the unused reversing light and the other side one missing for the unused fog side, what I am seeing is one bulb missing in the middle roughly on the side that has the indicator and the stop/tail + extra tail light, that is probably completely irrelevant but still not right as these cars probably pass an MOT with only one tail light working in each cluster.

So, back to your problem, you need to get the cables back into the car if possible (I seem to remember just wrapping them up in a poly bag when I was drying out and resealing the rear clusters of that late 2009 Ibiza), fit the clusters to their own connectors, put the car into reverse and switch the ignition on, then check remove the reverse bulb and carefully probe between its earth and +12V contact, if nothing there, check between +12V contact and a good body metalwork point to see if you can get 12V on a meter, doing that will go a long way to finding out what next to look at/for.

Thanks again for input. Again I'm a little lost as the two "white" sections on the headlight clusters in RHS AND LHS are surely the reverse lights and when u pull the bulb clusters out of both, they machine up the same. I've looked in manual and the illustration seems to be exactly as mine and there is only one reverse light indicated ( see pic )

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[RUM4MO]

Yes, as said earlier, normally only one reversing light is provided, the bus bar arrangement inside the clusters for RHD and LHD will be slightly different but the actual outside or lens covers will be the same, so that is why you can see 2 white areas when only one side is actually a wired and working reversing light.

Can you also see what I was talking about one bulb missing from the RHS cluster picture of your mum's car's cluster, ie one tail light bulb is missing as far as I can make out.

 

[everson38]

Yes, as said earlier, normally only one reversing light is provided, the bus bar arrangement inside the clusters for RHD and LHD will be slightly different but the actual outside or lens covers will be the same, so that is why you can see 2 white areas when only one side is actually a wired and working reversing light.

Can you also see what I was talking about one bulb missing from the RHS cluster picture of your mum's car's cluster, ie one tail light bulb is missing as far as I can make out.

Hey Rum.

I believe I think I can see what you mean with the bulb. I have another pic with better angles. So if you mean it's. Missing in the green circle - then yes but it seems to be an inoperative anyway as it is literally a plastic emprt hole. If you mean the yellow circle it is there just the previous picture was hiding it some. But if u mean in the red areas those are just empty hollow areas and no bulb can be used there.

Apologies for constant asking from you. Just when it comes to all things Seat you see to know it all and I am a basic DIY at best so if you think somethings wrong I'm likely to think so. So from my point of view should I tell my mom not to bother taking it in as you do in fact think it's a fail or do you see what I'm thinking to why the MOT test centre may have their wires crossed with this reverse light not working.

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['& Son' managed]

Another minor point in case anyone's not aware is that the rear fog light/s are linked with
the main headlight switch, so will only work if the car's headlights are on, they will not work
on their own or with only sidelights - something to remember when testing them.

This was not always the case on 1980's cars that had the crappy under-bumper rear foglights
fitted, in those days they often worked independently. I assume it was later legislation that
made it so they had to be linked to the headlights.

 

[RUM4MO]

That is good that you cleared that up, yes it was the yellow circled one, so that is okay, and I can see it now.

The MOT would not fail that car for only having a single reversing light as that is what it had when SEAT manufactured it, so if you can not get the reversing light, which will be in the LHS cluster to light up, then you still have an issue that needs resolving, either wrong style of bulb fitted, car manual should give descriptions of all the bulbs used plus normally VW Group mould that info onto the bulb holder section of the cluster, or wiring problem or switch problem, that is as you have already checked the fuses.

You need to get this sorted to keep your mum happy!

 

[dm222]

do you ear the beep when you put reverse?

 

[everson38]

do you ear the beep when you put reverse?

No never heard a beep in the car in don't believe

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