2.0TSi (190) - Lumpy Running and Poor MPG

Oct 16, 2019
4
3
My five cents.

Engine 2.0TSi (190) Seat FR ST , DSG gearbox. About 4000 miles counted without problems.
Symptoms from yesterday:
- change in exhaust note
- Sluggish / hesitant engine performance
- increased fuel consumption +1/3 off average
- burning smell
- cooling fun running even if drive was in quite slow mode

Seems to be some regeneration process started.
Official answer: drive to service/dealer if symptoms not stop in a week.

hope it will stop today, as it started yesterday :)
 
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Mr_G

Active Member
Oct 23, 2019
27
8
Official answer is somewhat unhelpful lol Ours is running fine again, never did get a chance to go for a decent drive so had to live with it regening over a series of very short journeys combined with one last trip of around 6 miles which seemed to be the one that did the trick.
 
Oct 16, 2019
4
3
Official answer is somewhat unhelpful lol Ours is running fine again, never did get a chance to go for a decent drive so had to live with it regening over a series of very short journeys combined with one last trip of around 6 miles which seemed to be the one that did the trick.
Official answer = local dealer answer ;)
 

The Daily Meme

Insta: @thatredcupra
Jan 3, 2018
912
466
Cambridge
Anyone run the 2.0tsi on both 95 and 99 Ron and noticed and difference in smoothness, performance or fuel economy?
I've run my 1.8 TSI (184ps) on Shell VPower, BP Ultimte and Tesco Momentum fuels.

The only difference i notice is using Shell Vpower having used normal 95 ron fuel for a prolonged period of time. There is a notable increase in fuel economy after a full tank of Vpower and subsequent fill ups of any other fuel. Presumably due to the cleansing additives contained within the Vpower fuel.
For the last couple of months i have been using tesco Momentum because its cheaper than standard... (logic?) but don't notice any significant diffrence in power output and id go as far as to say my fuel economy is actually maringally down. ~30 miles less over a full tank. (range of ~420 miles instead of ~450 miles)

For the most part, I dont think anything that is not really cosndiered a "performance" car to see any real difference in output from a premium fuel.

A point to consider is that in some locations, the bog standard fuel option contains 10% ethanol. Water likes to dissolve in ethanol so if you don't do a lot of driving, and dont go through a full tank of fuel a month. The quality of the fuel will degrade over time as more water dissolves into the ethanol. (This has no efect on me as i fill my car up once a week, sometimes more)
 

Eskilation

Active Member
Dec 3, 2017
99
25
Bucks
At 12k now noticed fan on at odd times normally when not hot and not expecting but nothing else.

Run on BP 95 mostly as en route will stick a tank of 98 in next although I have heard BP is the worse higher octane so need to find a Tesco or Shell as there 98-99 seems to be more highly recommend.

So looks like the 190 was the test bed for the mk4 release as see that has the 2.0 190bhp now.
 

Stringer95

Active Member
Dec 29, 2017
1
1
Hi

Had a similar issue with my '19 plate 2.0TSI 190 DSG.

Running like a dog, juddering through 2nd, inconsistent power delivery in 4th and half the usual MPG! My commute is approx. 6 miles, but pre-covid I would also have a few long journeys each month. I first experienced this in Feb and after a couple of days with the dealer, they re-mapped the DSG ECU which seemed to get rid of the problem.

Problem came back last week, but worse. Took it in again and Seat said it was a characteristic of the car reacting to the change in 'atmospheric temperature'. I read this thread, and my situation sounded similar to what @SRGTD mentioned. Took it out for a good run and it's now running like new, with MPG up to late 30's and no juddering :)
 
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Phil th Barrow

Active Member
Mar 10, 2021
10
4
Hi

Had a similar issue with my '19 plate 2.0TSI 190 DSG.

Running like a dog, juddering through 2nd, inconsistent power delivery in 4th and half the usual MPG! My commute is approx. 6 miles, but pre-covid I would also have a few long journeys each month. I first experienced this in Feb and after a couple of days with the dealer, they re-mapped the DSG ECU which seemed to get rid of the problem.

Problem came back last week, but worse. Took it in again and Seat said it was a characteristic of the car reacting to the change in 'atmospheric temperature'. I read this thread, and my situation sounded similar to what @SRGTD mentioned. Took it out for a good run and it's now running like new, with MPG up to late 30's and no juddering :)
Hi Steve.

Mine is th same car and year as yours.. Ex Lux.

Last 3 days its power on and off whilst constant pressure on accelerator. (feels like poor fueling) Iv had it nearly a year. Only dose 3 1/2 mile journey's to work and 3 1/2 on th way back.. Not bin on a good run since October. Fan still runs after stopping on both occasions. Ambient temperature below 8. Burning smell and a huge 30% loss in fuel consumption. Put it in sport yesterday up a hill to see if it would clear. It didn't... 18.4 MPG.!!!!! Normally does between 32 and 36 MPG on these runs. Its going in to Seat on next Friday. Ill mention "re gen" to tech and report on what he says. Fuel wise. Its always had Tesco momentum 98 Ron

Cheers Phil
 

SRGTD

Active Member
May 26, 2014
2,414
1,298
I’m waiting for my first OPF regen in my VW Polo GTI+ (2.0 EA888 gen 3b engine).

The procedure for my Polo GTI to help burn off soot the in the OPF is to get the engine warm and up to speed (I drop down a couple of gears to get the engine rpm up to 3,500-4,000) and then come off the throttle, and then repeat a few times. The engine deceleration helps to pull air back into the exhaust system, adding oxygen to the mix in the OPF to help burn off any accumulation of soot. So, a different procedure to a DPF equipped diesel where ‘taking it for a good blast’ and keeping the engine rpm’s high for a 20-25 minute run will help to clear the soot if the DPF has become clogged up.

I do very few very short (sub 3 mile) journeys; I’ll walk, which will also please the tree huggers and the polar bears. I don’t know if absence of short journeys has delayed (it‘s unlikely to have eliminated completely) the OPF regens or if the above procedure has helped delay them. Whether it’s either of these or something else, I’m still waiting for the first.
 
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Eskilation

Active Member
Dec 3, 2017
99
25
Bucks
Watching thread with interest not had anything so far on my 190. But cannot help but think short journeys and COVID restrictions are not helping. I am doing a fractions of the mileage I used to but the wife gives it a good boot full once a week to the office so maybe that is keeping the filters clean. I am just hoping the petrol filters are as I am told longer living and less problematic than diesel ones.

Do notice odd times fan is on (if been in sport mode) or gearbox put in S and runs a a while after switching off even in cold weather. But that’s about it.

Hope the dealers pinpoint the issue for you both.
 
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Phil th Barrow

Active Member
Mar 10, 2021
10
4
Watching thread with interest not had anything so far on my 190. But cannot help but think short journeys and COVID restrictions are not helping. I am doing a fractions of the mileage I used to but the wife gives it a good boot full once a week to the office so maybe that is keeping the filters clean. I am just hoping the petrol filters are as I am told longer living and less problematic than diesel ones.

Do notice odd times fan is on (if been in sport mode) or gearbox put in S and runs a a while after switching off even in cold weather. But that’s about it.

Hope the dealers pinpoint the issue for you both.
Hi.

Thank you for your replies.

SRGTD got me looking at regen for petrol and i found this. 1g of carbon fills GRF...!!!!! So im going to go down a long hill today at around 4000 RPM to see if i carnt burn it off. Still going Seat next Fri to see what they say too....

Here is what iv found.

Like it or not, emissions regulations will tighten significantly for all fossil fuelled vehicles. This means more technology, more costs and much much more to go wrong.

With the fall out of dieselgate, many motorists are now opting for petrol. In fact record numbers are switching to petrol and alternatively fueled vehicles as the demonisation of diesel powered vehicles continues to gain momentum.

Unfortunately petrol engines haven’t escaped the emissions crack down. The latest advance in petrol emissions control technology is the GPF or gasoline particulate filter.

What is a GPF Gasoline Particulate Filter

A GPF (Gasoline Particulate Filter) is an inline exhaust filter designed to capture soot particulates in direct injection petrol engines (GDI). Much like a DPF, it comprises of a honeycomb like filter structure made from a synthetic ceramic material.

As exhaust gasses pass through the filter, soot particles are captured. These filters are highly efficient, capturing in excess of 90% of airborne particulates which would otherwise be released into the atmosphere.

In Germany, theses filters are referred to as Otto particle filter (Ottopartikelfilter or OPF)



How is it different to a DPF

Unlike a DPF, a GPF has a very small capacity for captured soot particulate, 1g compared to around 8g for a typical DPF. In contrast, a GDI engine emits around 30 times less particulate than a diesel engine.

How does a GPF regenerate?

GPF regeneration can only be performed in “non power” conditions, meaning that regeneration is normally achieved under deceleration. Deceleration increases the amount of oxygen following through the engine and exhaust system. This in turn raises the temperature of the GPF to around 400c – 700c, igniting the soot contained within the filter.

In conditions where this is not possible, the vehicles engine management systems alters timing causing it to run lean. This “lean” burn increases oxygen and therefore GPF operating temperatures, allowing a regeneration to occur.

Ford Owners –Exhaust filter limit reached. drive to clean now“.

As per the comments below – we’ve been made aware of issues with Ford owners experiencing issues with their GPF.

We have put together a new article regarding this issue here – https://www.hypermiler.co.uk/gasoli...it-reached-drive-to-clean-now-ford-gpf-filter

Do I need to use a GPF additive?

Due to the nature of GPF regeneration, an fuel additive it not required to assist in the cleaning / regeneration of the filter.

How much is a replacement unit?

It’s still very early days for GPFs. We’re hoping that due to the nature of regeneration, failure due to the unit reaching its soot capacity should be relatively rare. However, it is noted that GPF are much more delicate and prone to damage compared to a diesel particulate filter.

Which cars will be fitted with a GPF

So far, the uptake on GPF technology has been rather slow. Mercedes and the VW Group are noted to have rolled out the technology for use in a number of their turbo charged engines. It’s expected that a mass rollout will begin in the next 5 – 7 years.

GPF and Euro 6

With the introduction of euro 6c emissions controls, vehicles will be subject to “real world” driving conditions in order to record realistic emissions results. The particulate limits for petrol engines will also tighten significantly.

It’s hoped that this will force manufacturers into employing new innovative ways in reducing emissions outside of “lab” conditions. A GPF will be just another tool in their arsenal to ensure they meet these new limits. We really don’t want another emissions scandal!

https://www.hypermiler.co.uk/emissions/the-gasoline-particulate-filter-faq

Cheers Phil
 
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Eskilation

Active Member
Dec 3, 2017
99
25
Bucks
Hi.

Thank you for your replies.

SRGTD got me looking at regen for petrol and i found this. 1g of carbon fills GRF...!!!!! So im going to go down a long hill today at around 4000 RPM to see if i carnt burn it off. Still going Seat next Fri to see what they say too....

Here is what iv found.

Like it or not, emissions regulations will tighten significantly for all fossil fuelled vehicles. This means more technology, more costs and much much more to go wrong.

With the fall out of dieselgate, many motorists are now opting for petrol. In fact record numbers are switching to petrol and alternatively fueled vehicles as the demonisation of diesel powered vehicles continues to gain momentum.

Unfortunately petrol engines haven’t escaped the emissions crack down. The latest advance in petrol emissions control technology is the GPF or gasoline particulate filter.

What is a GPF Gasoline Particulate Filter

A GPF (Gasoline Particulate Filter) is an inline exhaust filter designed to capture soot particulates in direct injection petrol engines (GDI). Much like a DPF, it comprises of a honeycomb like filter structure made from a synthetic ceramic material.

As exhaust gasses pass through the filter, soot particles are captured. These filters are highly efficient, capturing in excess of 90% of airborne particulates which would otherwise be released into the atmosphere.

In Germany, theses filters are referred to as Otto particle filter (Ottopartikelfilter or OPF)



How is it different to a DPF

Unlike a DPF, a GPF has a very small capacity for captured soot particulate, 1g compared to around 8g for a typical DPF. In contrast, a GDI engine emits around 30 times less particulate than a diesel engine.

How does a GPF regenerate?

GPF regeneration can only be performed in “non power” conditions, meaning that regeneration is normally achieved under deceleration. Deceleration increases the amount of oxygen following through the engine and exhaust system. This in turn raises the temperature of the GPF to around 400c – 700c, igniting the soot contained within the filter.

In conditions where this is not possible, the vehicles engine management systems alters timing causing it to run lean. This “lean” burn increases oxygen and therefore GPF operating temperatures, allowing a regeneration to occur.

Ford Owners –Exhaust filter limit reached. drive to clean now“.

As per the comments below – we’ve been made aware of issues with Ford owners experiencing issues with their GPF.

We have put together a new article regarding this issue here – https://www.hypermiler.co.uk/gasoli...it-reached-drive-to-clean-now-ford-gpf-filter

Do I need to use a GPF additive?

Due to the nature of GPF regeneration, an fuel additive it not required to assist in the cleaning / regeneration of the filter.

How much is a replacement unit?

It’s still very early days for GPFs. We’re hoping that due to the nature of regeneration, failure due to the unit reaching its soot capacity should be relatively rare. However, it is noted that GPF are much more delicate and prone to damage compared to a diesel particulate filter.

Which cars will be fitted with a GPF

So far, the uptake on GPF technology has been rather slow. Mercedes and the VW Group are noted to have rolled out the technology for use in a number of their turbo charged engines. It’s expected that a mass rollout will begin in the next 5 – 7 years.

GPF and Euro 6

With the introduction of euro 6c emissions controls, vehicles will be subject to “real world” driving conditions in order to record realistic emissions results. The particulate limits for petrol engines will also tighten significantly.

It’s hoped that this will force manufacturers into employing new innovative ways in reducing emissions outside of “lab” conditions. A GPF will be just another tool in their arsenal to ensure they meet these new limits. We really don’t want another emissions scandal!

https://www.hypermiler.co.uk/emissions/the-gasoline-particulate-filter-faq

Cheers Phil

Nice article - lots of good info....

Reading the details above, would that mean the re-gen would not really happen if in Eco mode on the mode section as it disengages the gearbox and the engine effectively idles until it re engages so lots of coasting

I can honestly say mine has only been in eco mode for 5 mins since purchase, hated it, its in sport or normal (mostly sport unless I forget to reset it) and this does tend to down shift for slowing down.

also don't like this statement : "it is noted that GPF are much more delicate and prone to damage compared to a diesel particulate filter."

Just my thoughts for the day, any of the problem vehicles using ECO mode.....
 
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Mr Mustard

Active Member
Jan 24, 2015
154
32
South East
A point to consider is that in some locations, the bog standard fuel option contains 10% ethanol. Water likes to dissolve in ethanol so if you don't do a lot of driving, and dont go through a full tank of fuel a month. The quality of the fuel will degrade over time as more water dissolves into the ethanol.
We only do about 150 miles a month in our 2.0tsi so this could be a problem.

Esso 99 ron petrol is ethanol free (not in all parts of the country though) so might be worth a try.
 

Phil th Barrow

Active Member
Mar 10, 2021
10
4
Ok... Today iv done some long down hill runs with closed throttle at around or above 4000 RPM. I got it all toasty on th up hills too. Out come. Better engine response than when i bought it. :cool: Im pleased .... But. ill see how it goes on th crawl to work and back for a few days and report then.

Iv requested a phone of th tech at Seat and he asn't rung yet. Ill still have it on there computer next Fri and report that too.

Thank all for your help

Phil
 
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SRGTD

Active Member
May 26, 2014
2,414
1,298
Ok... Today iv done some long down hill runs with closed throttle at around or above 4000 RPM. I got it all toasty on th up hills too. Out come. Better engine response than when i bought it. :cool: Im pleased .... But. ill see how it goes on th crawl to work and back for a few days and report then.

Iv requested a phone of th tech at Seat and he asn't rung yet. Ill still have it on there computer next Fri and report that too.

Thank all for your help

Phil
Good to hear the process I use on my VW seems to have had a positive effect. If you are doing quite a few ‘crawling’ journeys during the week, then it might be worth doing the higher rpm / closed throttle deceleration process every one or two weekends.

When you buy the car, this isn’t something the dealer tells you you might need to do, depending on the types of journeys you drive, and the owner’s manual isn’t particularly informative in this respect either.
 
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Phil th Barrow

Active Member
Mar 10, 2021
10
4
Good to hear the process I use on my VW seems to have had a positive effect. If you are doing quite a few ‘crawling’ journeys during the week, then it might be worth doing the higher rpm / closed throttle deceleration process every one or two weekends.

When you buy the car, this isn’t something the dealer tells you you might need to do, depending on the types of journeys you drive, and the owner’s manual isn’t particularly informative in this respect either.
Yes... Its a problem when legislation doesn't work in reality. Leaving th poor customer to paye th price. I didn't want a diesel for my next car when i bought this. One reason been DPF problems. Then i find this.... When its right though it is a great car.
 

SRGTD

Active Member
May 26, 2014
2,414
1,298
I suppose at least that’s one positive of EV’s; no DPF or OPF issues, although in the early days of mass EV ownership these issues will probably be replaced by range anxiety, lack of public EV charging points and time taken to fully charge the battery!
 
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Phil th Barrow

Active Member
Mar 10, 2021
10
4
I suppose at least that’s one positive of EV’s; no DPF or OPF issues, although in the early days of mass EV ownership these issues will probably be replaced by range anxiety, lack of public EV charging points and time taken to fully charge the battery!
Hi,

Yes my next car will be a EV. Apparently this is affordable now. MG from China.


Curb side charging by Trojan. https://www.electrive.com/2020/08/27/hidden-kerbside-ev-charging-by-trojan-energy-in-london/

Interconnects to keep supply/demand moving. https://www.nationalgrid.com/our-bu...res/interconnectors-connecting-cleaner-future

OVO half price EV charging. https://amp.theguardian.com/money/2...h-half-price-electric-vehicle-charging-tariff.

Like it or not. Its th future.
 

SRGTD

Active Member
May 26, 2014
2,414
1,298
Hi,

Yes my next car will be a EV. Apparently this is affordable now. MG from China.


Curb side charging by Trojan. https://www.electrive.com/2020/08/27/hidden-kerbside-ev-charging-by-trojan-energy-in-london/

Interconnects to keep supply/demand moving. https://www.nationalgrid.com/our-bu...res/interconnectors-connecting-cleaner-future

OVO half price EV charging. https://amp.theguardian.com/money/2...h-half-price-electric-vehicle-charging-tariff.

Like it or not. Its th future.
Yes, it is the future whether we like it or not.

I’ll be holding off for a few years before I make the switch as I think there’ll be quite a few advances in EV technology over the next few years (e.g. smaller, lighter and cheaper batteries, increased range, faster charging), along a wider choice of electric cars as more manufacturers ramp up EV development and production. Hopefully, this’ll mean EV’s will also be more affordable for the masses. Important that the infrastructure network is rolled out sufficiently quick enough and is in place to support EV ownership though.

Something that’s occurred to me in relation to EV ownership - I think there might be a fairly high demand for replacement charge point flaps (effectively the fuel filler flap) for EV owners who don’t have a driveway or garage and will need to use overnight pavement side charging facilities. How tempting will it be for drunken late night revellers to snap off open filler flaps ‘just for fun’ as they stagger home from a night out? Hopefully I’m wrong..........🤔
 

Phil th Barrow

Active Member
Mar 10, 2021
10
4
Yes, it is the future whether we like it or not.

I’ll be holding off for a few years before I make the switch as I think there’ll be quite a few advances in EV technology over the next few years (e.g. smaller, lighter and cheaper batteries, increased range, faster charging), along a wider choice of electric cars as more manufacturers ramp up EV development and production. Hopefully, this’ll mean EV’s will also be more affordable for the masses. Important that the infrastructure network is rolled out sufficiently quick enough and is in place to support EV ownership though.

Something that’s occurred to me in relation to EV ownership - I think there might be a fairly high demand for replacement charge point flaps (effectively the fuel filler flap) for EV owners who don’t have a driveway or garage and will need to use overnight pavement side charging facilities. How tempting will it be for drunken late night revellers to snap off open filler flaps ‘just for fun’ as they stagger home from a night out? Hopefully I’m wrong..........🤔
Infrastructure and forward thinking can be a problem. But th bean counters know that over supply can be a costly investment. Great for th buyer though. Wheel see.... I heard that we are going to be making batteries in th north east soon which will be great news for th consumer and th country. Its a shame we carnt have a car manufacture here again. We are to far behind for investment to catch up. So i think its a no. Its annoying when... Lets say th new Vauxhall Mocka is 10 grand dearer than its exactly th same petrol version. I suppose they av got to get through there engines lined up and (R&D) payed for.

Iv driven a Kuga petrol/EV and it was very adequate. In spring ill be having a go of a IPace too. According to th blurb they are very good.
 
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