1.4 TDI Standard Vs. Digital Tuning Box Vs. Remap Vs. Both Mods!

Discussion in 'TDi Tuning' started by pietch, Feb 12, 2008.

  1. pietch

    pietch Guest

    Follows this TDI remap post:

    1.4 TDI 50-70mph times in various states of tune:

    Standard Vs. Digital Tuning Box Vs. Remap Vs. Both Mods!

    Folows this post: http://www.briskoda.net/forums/fabia/pd-td...ods-once/95789/

    Some info people might find intresting:

    Standard 1.4 TDI:
    50-70 in 4th > 7.3 sec
    50-70 in 5th > 9.3 sec

    Digital Tuning Box Only (On Auto Calibration Setting - Made by Powerklick):
    50-70 in 4th > 5.4 sec
    50-70 in 5th > 7.4 sec

    111bhp Remap Only:
    50-70 in 4th > 4.7 sec
    50-70 in 5th > 7.6 sec

    111bhp Remap + Digital Tuning Box (On lowest setting 1 (7 being the highest): * Lots of soot!!
    50-70 in 4th > 4.4 sec
    50-70 in 5th > 6.0 sec

    For reference a remapped Fabia 1.9 TDI (not vRS) has:
    50-70 in 4th > 4.2 sec
    50-70 in 5th > 6.5 sec

    As you can see from the above results the off boost perfomance very good with just a digital tuning box... I would not recommend using both mods together due to the masses of soot produced, you will soon be pulled over!

    Perhaps a solution would be an RPM cut at 2-3k to turn the digital box off as it is not needed after this point?

    It really does show there is masses of potential for the little engine!
     
  2. devonmikeyboy

    devonmikeyboy Senior Member

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    I am not having a go at you personally but..
    The above proves nothing.
    Was the times recorded using a GPS system like Performance Box or using a stop watch?
    Anyone who runs a remap and a tuning box together is a muppet. Period
    It`s the bhp and torque power curve you need to look at not peak figures or 50-70 times.
    There is no reason why you shouldn`t get the same percentage performance increase from a small 3 cylinder diesel engine then a larger 1.9/2.0 four cylinder diesel engine. It`s just that a 50% increase on top of your 75bhp totals 112.5bhp. If you tune a 1.9 PD160 for 50% more power you end up with 240bhp. Which do you think you will notice more...
     
  3. watkins4378

    watkins4378 john2017

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    Hi both,

    I agree:
    There is no reason why you shouldn`t get the same percentage performance increase from a small 3 cylinder diesel engine then a larger 1.9/2.0 four cylinder diesel engine......It`s just that a 50% increase on top of your 75bhp totals 112.5bhp

    However, these engines come in various states of tune - the pd160 is towards the high end. The 3 cyl pd75 at the low end and comparable with the 1.9 tdi pd100 and it's possible to get 200 bhp and 320 lb ft from this with fmic, remap, pd150 injectors and turbo and bloody big brakes - lol.
    My question is do you think it's possible to get 100% improvement on 3 cyl pd75 or 150 bhp

    Cheers
     
  4. devonmikeyboy

    devonmikeyboy Senior Member

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    Yes easy all comes down to how much money you want to spend. bigger turbo and propane injection will easily get you 150 bhp from your engine.
     
  5. bbewekim

    bbewekim Senior Member

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    Would be awsome to say you own a 1.4 which can give a can of woop ass to most other average cars, however due to cost of parts, fitting and then finally INSURANCE declaration of parts your better off getting a pd 160 or pd130 and just getting a remap or keeping it standard.
     
  6. watkins4378

    watkins4378 john2017

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    Options

    Hi, well it would be like owning a lupo gti but with more torque and 40mpg.
    Just a reminder Iam looking to eventually create a Talon metro like this.

    If you look at autotrader there are no pd160's near 5 grand and a pd130 plus a remap takes it close to 1/ overheating due to smic and going into limp mode 2/ and to afford a fmic takes me over budget.
    My other thoughts were getting bms 325 tds + remap for around 3 grand.

    Cheers

     
  7. watkins4378

    watkins4378 john2017

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    Lastly, the cost of parts is relatively low. If you take a pd160 and want to flow more fuel then there is no option but race injectors. However, a pd75 would ony need pd150 inectors at 100- 150 pounds.
    Turbo is similar'ish

    Cheers
     
  8. g-man

    g-man Guest

    With all my mods declared (basically running an unlimited mod policy with a power cap of 120hp) its still cheaper than getting something bigger like a Golf 150PD.

    But parts for the 1.4 TDI are a pain due to it being a 3 pot so unlike the 1.9's there's very few parts to interchange.
     
  9. bbewekim

    bbewekim Senior Member

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    you can get pd 130 sports for 5k and that has rough 10bhp more as standard. Thing with modding once you start, you'l want to keep going, ive jumped from 74bhp car to my 130bhp and i cant wait to get more power. brakes, suspension and other little bits which need to be uprated for more power is the only downfall.

    I can understand all the above points of view mind you insurance is defiantely dependant on age or if your using mummy and daddy.
     
  10. muddyboots

    muddyboots Still hanging around

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    I think I'm right in saying that you can generally get upto around 220bhp on standard 130/150/160 injectors, before they are maxed out. Then you either need different injectors, or start injecting funny gases :)
     
  11. muddyboots

    muddyboots Still hanging around

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    Going back to the tuning box & remap issue.

    Ages back I played around with fitting different resistances across the fuel temp sensor, on my already-remapped car, to see what effect the extra fuelling had.

    The main differences I noticed:
    - lots more soot
    - DMF resonance
    - a wildly optimistic MPG on the computer

    Didn't really see any difference in power.

    So I really wouldn't recommend trying to run a tuning box / resistor alongside a remap.
    A well-written remap is 100% the way to go...
     
  12. watkins4378

    watkins4378 john2017

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    5k

    Hi, ok here is an ad on autotrader 5150 pounds Manual, 145,000 miles, Jazz Blue Pearl, Full service history, Taxed and Tested, Motorway milage, 6 speed gearbox, Recaro Colour Concept Leather Pack, Heated seats, Alarm, immobiliser, Climate control, Cruise Control, Trip Computer, 6 Disc CD changer/Cassette, Revo Remap, alloy wheels, extremely economical, very quick, much loved car being sold due to emmigration. Comes with 3 free part worn continental tyres in good condition.

    I guess the golf would weigh around 1420 kg thats 98 bhp per ton plus remap to 160 bhp (as I wouldnt want to go further without fmic) thats 115bhp per ton. Following the same fmic rule and keeping the 1.4 tdi to 150 bhp is 140 bhp per ton (approx). Also, almost no 1.4 tdi's have been tuned more than a remap and so their is a certain amount of exclusivity. Anyway, imagine me in an arosa tdi keeping up with leon cupra's lol

    Cheers



     
  13. watkins4378

    watkins4378 john2017

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    Talon Metro RT

    Did anyone look at the track day talon metro link HERE ???
     
  14. muddyboots

    muddyboots Still hanging around

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    What gearbox does the Arosa use - is it rated up to the torque figures that you might be expecting to produce ?

    Some cars with the PD130 engine (eg the Passat non-Sport models) had a 5-speed box, and had a de-rated map to reduce the torque down to a level the clutch/gearbox could handle. The 6-speed variants (eg Passat Sport) had higher torque output.

    Would be worth investigating what the gearbox on a 1.4 TDI could reliably take.
    Also the gearing might end up being a bit low for higher power outputs, you'd spend your life wheelspinning away from standing starts due to the combination of high torque, low gearing and low weight over the driving wheels, which would limit the useability...

    As for keeping up with Leon Cupras, well the light weight of an Arosa might give it some advantage during initial acceleration (if you actually had any traction due to the high torque/low gearing/low weight...) but beyond that you've no chance :)
    My Ibiza PD130 is running a map in the region of 160bhp, my Passat PD130 was running around 175bhp; now the Ibiza is a noticeably lighter car (prob 2-300kg lighter than the Passat) which means even with the lower power output it's quicker off the mark and generally picks up more quickly, but as speed increases, the advantages of light weight diminish as rate of acceleration/speed increase reduces and outright power to overcome aerodynamic drag becomes more important; if I'd been able to compare the two cars side by side, I'm sure the Passat would have pulled away at higher speeds despite the weight penalty.

    So up to certain speeds you'd have a very responsive and quick off the mark car with a tuned Arosa TDI, but bhp/ton figures don't tell the whole story and I think at speed you'd still get mullered by high powered cars like an LCR.
     
  15. UncleFester

    UncleFester Grumpier by the day!

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    Yes and i'd not have one because under all that it's still a metro, it's still a potential rot box and it's fitted with an engine that is prone to throwing head gaskets ..... i'd not fancy paying £6k even though it's a very tasty spec. The other problem is that with that much power, it will bend its front subframe with consumate ease and eat ball joints like a fat kid scoffs cookies. I could not go back to owning one. All of the above doesn't take into account that spending £6k on a metro is as mad as spending £4k on a private plate - the only metro i'd have is a 6R4 and i've more chance of nobbing kylie than ever owning one of those :)
     
  16. g-man

    g-man Guest

    I cannot confirm this as will need to find the thread, but someone on an Audi A2 forum had the technical specs of the 1.4 TDI gearbox and quoted the maximum torque allowance.

    The results was not looking too good; apparently the gearbox can sustain around 180lb/ft torque.

    So that might need looking into
     
  17. muddyboots

    muddyboots Still hanging around

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    180lb/ft will be nowhere near enough. A standard PD130 puts out 229lb/fr I think, and generally around 300lb/ft when mapped.
    Wonder if there are any uprated clutches available.
     
  18. g-man

    g-man Guest

    Just found an Audi A2 who has rolling roaded 201lb/ft on his A2 TDI. His original remap was chucking out 180lbft torque but Vince at stealth managed to tweak it to 200lb/ft.

    But thats on stealths rollers which I know generally get highish figures...

    Might investigate to what results I reep from mine first.....
     
  19. devonmikeyboy

    devonmikeyboy Senior Member

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    I think you will find VW rate 300lb as max on the PD130/150 box so i wouldn`t take to much notice myself. If Sachs or Helix don`t do up rated clutches there are a few companies now that can coat your drive disc in kevlor to make it stronger.
     
  20. watkins4378

    watkins4378 john2017

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    Gearbox

    Hi, I think the gearbox is the o2j unit also fitted in the 5 speed 1.9 tdi pd100.
    If so, I ran one with 180 bhp and 300 lb ft.
    Can anyone confirm or reject this?

    Cheers


     

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