2009 SEAT Bolero

v5er

Active Member
Feb 18, 2007
166
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Lancs.
The key point for me is the similarity to the previous A4. Why should I fork out for an Exeo when I can get a used A4 for less?
 

justsean

Active Member
Apr 4, 2008
202
0
Cumbria
i feel it also reinforces the sigma SEAT already have of being a poor mans audi...bit difficult to defend the brand when they use the chassis from a 4 year old audi and dont change the shape of the car at all. its not good enough for audi anymore so lets use it for seats new segment?
 

v5er

Active Member
Feb 18, 2007
166
0
Lancs.
Sean I agree, but then nobody really expects a Seat saloon to be as good as an Audi. The interior and ride quality of my V5 is probably the major visibile difference to an Audi. That seems to have been addressed with the Exeo.

I can see why Seat have done what they have done and good luck to them. These days belting out a new model as cheap as possible for maxiumum margins must be very tough, especially for a struggling brand like Seat. It's also a new market segment for them so why not go with the best available successful formula from VAG? I can't see many private buyers, but fleets might go for it as a Passat/Accord/Mondeo alternative.
 

INA

Garrett Super STAR!
Dec 8, 2007
0
0
www.inaengineering.com
Sean I agree, but then nobody really expects a Seat saloon to be as good as an Audi.
It is just VAG's way of "recycling".Keeping the body panels in production for years to come.The MKII Jetta is still available in China just with a face lift.

The issue with VAG has always been developing cars and engines that the market does not demand.Seat wont ever be seen as a luxury saloon and I think the Exeo will be a flop similar to how the Phaeton was a flop.

After 75,000US it is no longer about the car you are buying but the BRAND.Thats why people will always buy a Mercedes-Benz S-Class over an Audi A8/S8 and why a BMW 5 series will always sell more than an Audi A6.
 

v5er

Active Member
Feb 18, 2007
166
0
Lancs.
It is just VAG's way of "recycling".Keeping the body panels in production for years to come.The MKII Jetta is still available in China just with a face lift.

The issue with VAG has always been developing cars and engines that the market does not demand.Seat wont ever be seen as a luxury saloon and I think the Exeo will be a flop similar to how the Phaeton was a flop.

After 75,000US it is no longer about the car you are buying but the BRAND.Thats why people will always buy a Mercedes-Benz S-Class over an Audi A8/S8 and why a BMW 5 series will always sell more than an Audi A6.

In todays economic climate and with SEAT looking to enter a new segment given their current instability, it makes sense to use a successful Audi platform. I agree that some VAG experiments are expensive flops, but I can see Exeo selling the 3000 or so units they expect IF they get the pricing right versus Mondeo/Passat/Accord etc. It will be a fleet choice - I can't see many private buyers going for new Exeo's when they can get a low mileage A4 for a similar price.

As for $75K cars, thats a whole different matter altogether and I am sure SEAT would be the first to admit they don't even sell a car in this price range.
 

RUM4MO

Active Member
Jun 4, 2008
7,784
983
South Scotland
Ok I just checked out the Exeo website. So this won't replace the Mk3 Toledo. What a shame! Whilst the Exeo isn't differentiating itself from the old A4 as much as Skoda's new Superb seems to have, why change a winning formula so much? I actually like the look of the new Exeo and will certainly be test driving one as soon as I can. I couldn't say the same for a Superb, because no matter how good it is, it is after all a Skoda. If Seat throw in the integral umbrella a la Superb they are on to a winner!

From what I can see, what Seat are doing is offering is a "luxury" alternative to Mondeo, Vectra, Accord etc. It certainly looks a lot better than the Passat. If it is as good to drive as my current Mk2 Toledo V5(170) I will certainly be interested when it comes round to reluctantly changing her.

As for the emerging markets potential, Skoda seem to have the lions share of that one already in E Europe and India from my own experience. I wonder if Seat's have that market in South America. It certainly won't do Seat any harm at all if ship loads of Seats are sold in emerging markets too.

BTW, if you were meaning that the new Superb is also based on this older A4 - it is not, its based on the "inflated" Golf ie the Passat so has the transverse mounted engine - unlike this car. I'm a Passat B5 person and I'd rather have an older A4 or A6 than the new "Golf" Passat - and I've driven it!
 

v5er

Active Member
Feb 18, 2007
166
0
Lancs.
From industry reviews of the old A4, it seems that the engine position ahead of the front wheels was seen as a weakness. As you have driven both this and the newer Golf/Passat and prefer the Audi, can you say that it makes much difference in terms of handling and balance/poise? What else made you prefer an old A4/A6 to a newer Golf/Passat. I have driven the Mk5 Golf (only a 1.6) but I didnt like it. The interior feels cheap compared to previous Golfs I have owned and the drive wasn't all that great. My 10 year old Honda Civic 1.6 had more power too. I dont think the engines and interior will be an issue with the Exeo.
 

RUM4MO

Active Member
Jun 4, 2008
7,784
983
South Scotland
From industry reviews of the old A4, it seems that the engine position ahead of the front wheels was seen as a weakness. As you have driven both this and the newer Golf/Passat and prefer the Audi, can you say that it makes much difference in terms of handling and balance/poise? What else made you prefer an old A4/A6 to a newer Golf/Passat. I have driven the Mk5 Golf (only a 1.6) but I didnt like it. The interior feels cheap compared to previous Golfs I have owned and the drive wasn't all that great. My 10 year old Honda Civic 1.6 had more power too. I dont think the engines and interior will be an issue with the Exeo.

To start with, I think that it was the harsh reality that I liked my Passat B5 (2000MY) not because it was a VW but because it was (an old) Audi designed car - that means that it accidentally has higher design integrety and higher build standard than should be expected from a VW. These are the very reasons that VW had to dump this platform as it had won over a lot of customers, so had achieved what was required of it but was far too expensive to produce in Germany - the way forward was always going to be to launch next model but one that was a lot cheaper to build > hence grab a Golf platform and take it from there. Skoda managed to do the same thing with this (B5) platform and for the same reasons have moved on to the cheaper Golf platform. Balance/poise, well I only had this car for four days as my Passat was in to get a new rear bumper (slight shunt from car behind after being stationary in a queue along with car behind for 15 minutes?!!!), the model was 2.0TDI and I had asked for just a Golf as I knew that I would not like the electric handbrake but insurance needed to give me as close to mine (2.8 V6 4Motion) as they could!! First impression, when you shut the boot lid it clangs like a tin box (springs not struts so that the lid can pop open when the fob button is pressed - progress??!!!). Next interior trim - vile hard cheap plastics, next electric handbrake - good idea but a completely flawed way of ingetrating it into car - especially as this cheap heap did not have the hill start add-on. Once moving the car was fine, getting it up my steep driveway when cold only took 6 attempts - might have been me + TDI + DBW. All in all a very bad experience and I only used it twice, opting to use the bus where possible! Don't get me wrong, I'd love to walked away from that experience thinking that I'd get one A.S.A.P. - but the reality is that I will probably just get a secondhand Audi A6 or consider this new Seat. I think a lot of poo is talked about what the press call balance and poise, but no one can deny that moving the engine out beyond the front wheels is every going to be a good thing, I've got four wheel drive so its not so bad - but that problem will always be worst with the TDI engine as its heavier - but that engine is what people need with fuel prices - so maybe Audi is taking a risk by sticking with Norh/South engine installations - for exteme handling comments I would listen to the "FAST Audi" owners - they surely would not buy the RS's and the S's if they were fatally flawed in the balance and poise department - mind you, I hear that the latest Audis (A4,A6) have the battery in the boot - and that means no chance of ever carrying a full sized spare wheel!!!

A final comment on badge engineering, my wife has a VW Polo 9N (ie same as Skoda Fabia and Seat Ibiza) - it was her choice as I'd rather she'd stuck with Ford Fiesta (cheap and useful and sort of honest!), her Polo has cost me dearly in replacement parts that should not fail during its early life - the usual ARB + front Springs + Coils + TCA bushes + Lambda probe + Exhaust(flexi torn ) - all that from a quality car manufacturer and in the first 4 years of use - not a cheap car to buy, not a tough little car as advertised and not a cheap car to run = in my real life scoring 0/3!! (a true modern VW)
 
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v5er

Active Member
Feb 18, 2007
166
0
Lancs.
To start with, I think that it was the harsh reality that I liked my Passat B5 (2000MY) not because it was a VW but because it was (an old) Audi designed car - that means that it accidentally has higher design integrety and higher build standard than should be expected from a VW. These are the very reasons that VW had to dump this platform as it had won over a lot of customers, so had achieved what was required of it but was far too expensive to produce in Germany - the way forward was always going to be to launch next model but one that was a lot cheaper to build > hence grab a Golf platform and take it from there.

Well thats pretty much the rationale behind Exeo's origins.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to walked away from that experience thinking that I'd get one A.S.A.P. - but the reality is that I will probably just get a secondhand Audi A6 or consider this new Seat.

I think that could be the Exeo's downfall outside the fleet market.
 

Poverty

Guest
It is just VAG's way of "recycling".Keeping the body panels in production for years to come.The MKII Jetta is still available in China just with a face lift.

The issue with VAG has always been developing cars and engines that the market does not demand.Seat wont ever be seen as a luxury saloon and I think the Exeo will be a flop similar to how the Phaeton was a flop.

After 75,000US it is no longer about the car you are buying but the BRAND.Thats why people will always buy a Mercedes-Benz S-Class over an Audi A8/S8 and why a BMW 5 series will always sell more than an Audi A6.



A6 sells more than the bmw 5 series in germany actually, and audi sells more cars in the UK than BMW does. Infact audi seems to be the only mainstream manufacturer in the world right now that continues to grow.
 

v5er

Active Member
Feb 18, 2007
166
0
Lancs.
A6 sells more than the bmw 5 series in germany actually, and audi sells more cars in the UK than BMW does. Infact audi seems to be the only mainstream manufacturer in the world right now that continues to grow.

What's your source for this data? Are you referring to VAG vs BMW in the UK or just Audi?
 

Poverty

Guest
What's your source for this data? Are you referring to VAG vs BMW in the UK or just Audi?

Slightly confused what you are asking but I will explain it more clearly.

Audi A6 outsells the bmw 5 series and merc e class in germany.

In the UK audi sells more cars some months than bmw and mercedes combined.

Worldwide for 2008 audi will have grown whilst BMW and Mercedes contract. Audi taking away mercedes and bmws market share worldwide.


BMW Group


BMW: 81,357 (-26.2%) ... YTD 1,105,112 (-3.5%)

MINI: 15,103 (-20.8%) ... YTD 217,405 (+7.6%)
Rolls-Royce: 110 (-18.5%) ... YTD 1,055 (+28.5%)
BMW Group Automobile: 96,570 (-25.4%) ... YTD 1,323,572 (-1.8%)


Interesting remark: in November 2008 the 100,000th E63/64 6er was sold.

Report: BMW Group PressClub



MERCEDES - BENZ


MB: 74,400 (-27.6%) ... YTD 1,034,700 (-4.1%)
smart: 10,100 (-1.2%) ... YTD 123,500 (+36.5%)
Mercedes-Benz Cars: 84,500 (-25.2%) ... YTD 1,158,200 (-1.0%)

Report: Daimler Global Media Site - Mercedes-Benz Cars - Mercedes-Benz P. Cars - Special Topics - Mercedes-Benz Cars Sells 1,158,200 Vehicles Since the Beginning of the Year

Audi: 75,950 (+0.4%) ... YTD 920,700 (+3.0%)


[URL="http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g5YWZh7RSBeLd7FUNzJbpwe7hV9wD94UIIQO0"]The Associated Press: Carmaker Audi's Nov. sales up 0.4 percent on 2007
 

v5er

Active Member
Feb 18, 2007
166
0
Lancs.
In the UK audi sells more cars some months than bmw and mercedes combined.

This is the statement that I am having a hard time believing. When you say Audi do u mean just Audi branded cars or are you including VW? If it is indeed just Audi, as I suspect after reading the Associated Press article you kindly linked, then that is really surprising and very impressive.

"For the first 11 months of 2008, the maker of the sports and luxury cars Q7, R8, and the TT, said it delivered some 920,700 vehicles, up 3 percent on the 893,628 sold in the first 11 months of 2007." (Worldwide sales)

Source - AP article.

"BMW, which was already having a rough time in the United States this year, now concedes there’s no way it will top last year’s worldwide record sales of just over 1.3 million BMWs for the full year of 2008."

Source: http://industry.bnet.com/auto/1000362/no-worldwide-sales-record-for-bmw/

So Audi is finally catching up. I still prefer BMW's and Mercs :shrug:
 

Poverty

Guest
This is the statement that I am having a hard time believing. When you say Audi do u mean just Audi branded cars or are you including VW? If it is indeed just Audi, as I suspect after reading the Associated Press article you kindly linked, then that is really surprising and very impressive.

"For the first 11 months of 2008, the maker of the sports and luxury cars Q7, R8, and the TT, said it delivered some 920,700 vehicles, up 3 percent on the 893,628 sold in the first 11 months of 2007." (Worldwide sales)

Source - AP article.

"BMW, which was already having a rough time in the United States this year, now concedes there’s no way it will top last year’s worldwide record sales of just over 1.3 million BMWs for the full year of 2008."

Source: http://industry.bnet.com/auto/1000362/no-worldwide-sales-record-for-bmw/

So Audi is finally catching up. I still prefer BMW's and Mercs :shrug:

nope just audi alone. In november audi car sales fell 13% in the UK whilst BMW's fell over 40 %.
 

FrostsSeat

Guest
Ifa nyone is actually interested in the pricing now it's avaliable it is:

S (143ps) - £17,740
SE (143ps) - £18,345
Sport (143ps) - £19,230
SE LUX (143ps)- £20,410
Sport (170ps) - £20,160
SE LUX (170ps) - £21,340
Sport (200ps Petrol) - £19410

The details became avaliable this morning on www.club-seat.co.uk
 

Ibiza 130 tdi

Black Magic
Jan 15, 2007
6,275
1
Somerset
berlina_d_segment_seat-01.jpg

I like that alot! :thumbup:
 

v5er

Active Member
Feb 18, 2007
166
0
Lancs.
Sport (170ps) - £20,160
SE LUX (170ps) - £21,340
Sport (200ps Petrol) - £19410

Strange that the 200ps Sport is £750 LESS than the 170ps Sport.... The spec sheets would make an interesting read.
 
Adrian Flux insurance services - discount for forum members.