Audi S3 GT3582R stroker Build (previously GT3071r)

[tufftybloke]

Long day.... absolutely knackered... I'll be glad to get back to work next week just to sit on my arse all day... lol

Anyhoo...

Fitted the turbo and manifold to my head after cleaning the face... fitted all the water pipes, oil feed and oil drain...

...making sure the turbo bolts don't work loose this time by using Nord Lock washers and M10 bolts...

I blew out the head bolt threads in the block with an airline then fitted the head... I am pretty sure I can do this blindfold now the number of times I have lifted a head on and off this week... fitted the timing belt and fitted the wrapped downpipe connecting up the lambda and EGT sensors...

I added some extra heat shielding and of course re fitted the inner CV shield... spent the rest of the day just fitting everything back together and filled her full of fluids...

...turned her over with the injectors unplugged a couple of times to get the oil circulated and she fired up next turn of the key once I had reconnected them... result!!! happy as larry.. first start is always a worry when the engine has had this much done but there is no rattles and she was idling nicely...

Phew!!... will be checking for leaks, topping up the fluids and refitting the driveshaft tomorrow then hopefully onto the dyno for a quick run in process (useful guide here Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power) and a base set of runs on actuator pressure before I do a few miles on her... once I have a few miles under the belt I'll drop the oil and put some fresh fully synth in and then we can start tuning properly

<tuffty/>

 

[tufftybloke]

Well.. mixed bag today... got to the unit early to run the car to temp and see what leaks... good news... nothing was leaking... topped up all the fluids and finished the engine bay..

Refitted the drive shaft and drove her up the road... turns out the spring in the TIAL puts actuator pressure at a tad over 0.5bar... humm... not sure thats going to be enough tbh but will roll with it for now..

Parked the car up and went off to get the Badgerwagon started up... Bill sorted a base map running std boost and flashed that in... went out and did a logging run and was getting a bar of boost tailing off a tad at the end...

Logging showed just over 246g/s (307hp) on 14ish psi with no timing pull... not really looked at the logs in full yet but Bill is going to look through them and look to add a bit more boost to the map..

However... on my return to the unit I noticed a bit of oil on the workshop floor where the car was stood from the mornings test drive.... booo... got her back on the ramp and there is oil around the back of the engine... thought it was the oil drain and where we joined the two bits together but Bill noticed it was wet with oil further up... turns out that its the oil feed pipe!!!... not the actual banjo joint (which would have been the obvious place) but where the braided hose screws to the banjo... double boooooo!!! just so you know where this is located its on the top of the turbo cartridge between the manifold and turbo around the back of the engine...

I should be able to get to it by removing the TIP etc and the water pipe to remove it and tighten up but not feeling the love all things considered.. thats the last place I expected a leak and hasn't been moved in all the times I have done work on the car... lesson of course is to check EVERY nut, bolt and connection...

It could have been worse of course but still a pain regardless... gotta love cars!!

Other than that she drives fine

Happy New Year!!

<tuffty/>

 

[rsrich]

lovely looking downpipe!
Just one question, with very poor timing seeing it is all back together now... would there be significant benefit in feeding the wastegate pipe into the downpipe at an angle rather than square on, to help the wastegate entry "go with the flow" of the main exhaust?

 

[tufftybloke]

lovely looking downpipe!
Just one question, with very poor timing seeing it is all back together now... would there be significant benefit in feeding the wastegate pipe into the downpipe at an angle rather than square on, to help the wastegate entry "go with the flow" of the main exhaust?

In an ideal world then yeah going with the flow etc is more desirable but it was more ease of fitting/measuring at the time than anything else and tight angles can be a pain to weld in the tight bit..

It was just more practical for me to do it this way at the time... it does work though... unlike the oil feed pipe lol

<tuffty/>

 

[ibizacupra]

lovely looking downpipe!
Just one question, with very poor timing seeing it is all back together now... would there be significant benefit in feeding the wastegate pipe into the downpipe at an angle rather than square on, to help the wastegate entry "go with the flow" of the main exhaust?

i think given its distance from the turbine angles of incidence are going to be immeasurable in performance terms.. mine also feeds into the downpipe at 90' to the flow, but over 2 feet away from the turbine. ideally, for purist sake it would look nicer i agree. it was tricky enough as it was.

 

[tufftybloke]

What a fun day!!! (sarcasm is a free service I offer)....

After a lot of swearing and removing of stuff and contorting myself into various shapes I managed to undo the oil feed from the top of the turbo... I think I can see what the problem is...

Thankfully Bill had a spare on the shelf (he's good like that...)

...but after spending what seemed like forever trying to get the thread started I managed to screw it in only to find the banjo bolt was too long... the old banjo was deeper than the new one and it bottomed out before it sealed so I took it off again

Started modifying the banjo (as it had the reducer in it) and managed to bugger that up royally!! not having a good start to the new year at all.... quick hunt around and found a different type of reducer and fitted that...

Put the car back together and all was good... took her out for a quick test drive and parked her up inside the unit to see if any fluids escape.... there was a little oil puddle!!! FFS!!!

Put the car back on to the ramp and had a look bearing in mind the engine was hot... doesn't appear to be coming from the oil feed at least but looks like the oil drain could be suspect... jeez!!

Left her on the ramp so I can take a look in the morning... cleaned stuff up so hopefully any freshly dropped oil will now be obvious where its from...

Nearly there!!!

<tuffty/>

 

[Damoegan]

Not having much luch are you mate

 

[tufftybloke]

Not having much luch are you mate

Shite happens... always the same on a build like this really... just a pain it didn't show straight away and waits for me to 'test drive' her... meh... will sort it out... its how I roll ;P

<tuffty/>

 

[ibiza_95]

dayumm, it should all be worth it in the long run maybe... haha
its the joys of doing it that make you do it again and again i hear...

Just fitted my new turbo and the oil return doesnt fit so im having to re do that :/
And suspect the oil feed might not be tight enough because it was ridiculous to get to...

I live in hope

 

[tufftybloke]

Yet another 'fun' day... keyhole surgery should be a doddle after working on my car lol...

Found the oil leak.... it was the oil drain but not where we thought!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkVb0-VuCzI

Access to remove it was as usual very tight!! had to remove the drive shaft (again!), transfer box bracket and inner cv heatshield... access to the two bolts holding the drain on is better than on the previous turbo configuration but still a PITA!!

Once off we smoke tested it and as you can from the video it was pouring smoke out not from the welded join but the OEM join!! tbh I think I must have crushed it at some point when having the head assembly on and off the engine while sorting clearances and stuff which of course is yet another lesson learned but in fairness I at least didn't have to take the head off this time to do it LOL..

Bill welded the new oil drain (its part of a K03 oil drain with part of my K04 oil drain welded to it)... smoke tested that and all was good..

Fitting it back to the turbo was of course more 'fun'... but... I got it on there, filled up with oil again and ran the car up the road...

Apart from a moment where I thought it was leaking again (turned out to be an old stain from yesterday I hadn't cleaned up) all was good... got her back on the ramp and she was dry... Phew!!!

Drove her home tonight and all is well so far... will spend the week running her in then on the dyno next weekend

<tuffty/>

 

[wild willy]

Brilliant tuffty, pleased for you that shes finally running sweet. Lucky Bill is on hand to help out also.
I'm looking forward to this dyno graph.
Well done.

 

[Feel]

Did you mean this weekend, or next weekend.

Interested in the results

 

[tufftybloke]

Did you mean this weekend, or next weekend.

Interested in the results

Tomorrow

<tuffty/>

 

[tufftybloke]

Ok... got onto the dyno today...

Started off with a few baseline runs to see where we were... worked out at 14ish psi she was putting out 280hp... not that it felt like that on the road... BT has the advantage of pulling to the redline of course over say a K04 that kinda runs out so feels must faster to drive as peak power was at pretty much redline not between 5 and 6k as is the case of a normal K04..

Anyhoo... as it turns out it would appear there is yet more work to do!! the mapping is not finished yet.. Bill is looking to smooth the boost out and get it all started sooner (if possible)... I plan to do a bit of logging with my MBC fitted and see where she starts coming on boost as a baseline for tweaking the N75 requests...

Upshot of all this is I didn't hit 400hp like I was hoping for however on reviewing previous runs of my car with its previous states of hardware and tune, its actually progress...

When I was running the same turbo as Lee and Andy123 is using I was struggling to get to 340hp... they both got just over 370hp but both cars have after market inlet manifolds, better designed exhaust manifolds than mine and are now running WMI...

I was using a std small port inlet, small port head and std TB

I then rebuilt the turbo using the full size GT3071r turbine wheel but on the same internally gated hotside... changed to the R32 TB and I was getting 350hp as a one off best run but 345hp more consistently...

Trial fitted an SEM inlet with my R32 TB and a couple of tweaks to the map got 374hp (similar power to Lee and Andy)

Current setup is back on the std small port inlet, std 60mm TB but with the external wastegate and better flowing hotside... this netted me 384hp...

What does this mean in reality and looking at the previous graphs...

First results are the baseline... std small port inlet, R32 TB, full size GT3071r, T25 internally gated
Second results... SEM large port inlet, R32 TB, full size GT3071r, T25 internally gated
Third results... std small port inlet, std 60mm TB, full size GT3071r, T3 externally gated

Based on these kind of results fitting an SEM would get me the 400hp I am looking for it would appear...

As I said though... mapping is not finished, once done it should see the spool getting started a little earlier and torque holding a bit longer while tweaking the top end power a bit too...

To put a bit more perspective on this... here are some graphs comparing mine to the Ibiza we built a little while back.. the Ibiza did make a bit more power than the graph I am using but it had everything turned up to 11 so this one is a bit more realistic as a comparison...

The spec of the Ibiza was a bit better than mine... 83mm overbore, ported small port head (larger exhaust ports than mine), SEM and tubular exhaust manifold...

As you can see though it makes better use of the boost top end which has to be the SEM helping top end flow... low end torque etc could well be just mapping and I have some work to do there but it at least shows that mine is not too far away and where my current limitations are...

A little more to do then... was initially cheesed off not to hit 400hp but when I had thought it through and compared to other cars we have done then I am a lot happier..

Fact of the matter is the way she drives is so much more different to what I remember... power delivery is smooth and the way she pulls in third is actual scary...

I have a few other odds and sods to try... I still have WMI to fit at some point too...

This pretty much concludes this round of modifications but I will of course update the thread once we have sorted the mapping out and of course if there any further developments such as inlet manifolds etc...

<tuffty/>

 

[paul-murphys]

Hi mate ive got a 70mm throttle body and sem manifold to fit. Where did you get the gasket for the adaptor plate to manifold and what size hose fits over the end of the throttle body going back to intercooler? Thankyou

 

[tufftybloke]

Hi mate ive got a 70mm throttle body and sem manifold to fit. Where did you get the gasket for the adaptor plate to manifold and what size hose fits over the end of the throttle body going back to intercooler? Thankyou

I used silicon sealant and you just need to measure the throttle body and the connecting pipe and get a reducing joiner or something to suit... I didn't use a 70mm TB...

<tuffty/>

 

[tufftybloke]

Casual weekend (I say casual... there was of course some Ibiza dynoing to do ... nothing to report on that yet though as she is still being run in)

After driving the car for a couple of weeks now she is feeling much better than before and nearly due an oil change to proper stuff which I might do next weekend if I get 5 mins..

Anyhoo... have always had a bit of a hesitancy issue which I believed to be DV related... so decided to take it apart for a clean and service... while I was at it I also relocated it back to the cold side as this is where I had originally fitted it... I moved it a while back to try and fix a cold start issue but since fitting the 60mm TB back on its never been an issue... I also put the white spring back in (was using the red one for a while)... seems much better on part throttle and seems to hold boost a bit better... maybe placebo but certainly feels more urgent now...

Then I cracked on with the earthing mods (as detailed here Waks Wide Web)

Bought the bits from eBay for about a tenner...

Decided all I was going to do was run an earth from the battery then take one to the cam cover earth and one to the throttle body (for no particular reason)

Worth noting that pretty much all the sensors on the engine have their own earth which is common in the loom and runs to underneath the battery tray to an earthing point fed from the battery so earthing the crap out of the engine is a little pointless but its certainly worth doing the cam cover one as I have seem quite a bit of volts drop to the coil packs on some cars...

Cut the cable to length and crimped the terminals using heatshrink to insulate

Used 7mm I/D convoluted trunking to prevent chafing

Main earth coming from the battery..

Attached them to where the engine hoist bracket used to be... in Waks guide you bolt them to the bracket itself but the AEB head I bought didn't have it and I have no real need to fit one back on as yet so I used an M6 bolt to bolt through one of the M8 holes for fixing the bracket too... ran one lead from there to the lower TB fixing bolt...

Ran another lead to the cam cover and bolted it to the existing earth point (keeping the original lead there too)

As for what difference it makes? not sure tbh... not driven the car enough to see but... the car arguably feels smoother part throttle which is good...

Given the theory behind this and providing you buy the parts cheap enough from eBay or somewhere then its a worthwhile thing to do IMO... I certainly would be paying the £40-£60 an 'earthing' kit costs though... the most worthwhile run you can do is one straight from the battery to the cam cover if you do any at all... the rest would give negligible improvements I think... I will have a look at a wiring diagram sometime to check the throttle body one... pretty sure its got its own earths and that its not earthed through the case but if it is earthed back through the case too then the TB earth strap has some merit...

Next on the agenda will be finishing off the mapping once I have changed the oil as I don't fancy doing any more dyno runs with the stuff thats in there really... and of course try and find an AEB inlet manifold from a more trustworthy source

<tuffty/>

 

[GTi T]

Hi Tufty, great thread mate,just read through it, i see you had some bad luck along the way but got there in the end Lovely motor,real wolf in sheeps clothing!

Cheers for all your help last saturday at Badger 5 on my Leon,what a pain in the arse car's are sometimes eh Think everyone was getting cheesed off by the end, will probabaly see you there again when i drop the car off for it's rods and higher boost map as soon as Bill can fit me in

Regards

Tom & dad (pete)

 

[CatB1]

Hi Tufty, great thread mate,just read through it, i see you had some bad luck along the way but got there in the end Lovely motor,real wolf in sheeps clothing!

Cheers for all your help last saturday at Badger 5 on my Leon,what a pain in the arse car's are sometimes eh Think everyone was getting cheesed off by the end, will probabaly see you there again when i drop the car off for it's rods and higher boost map as soon as Bill can fit me in

Regards

Tom & dad (pete)

Dito


Pete & son (Tom) LOL

 

[tufftybloke]

Hi Tufty, great thread mate,just read through it, i see you had some bad luck along the way but got there in the end Lovely motor,real wolf in sheeps clothing!

Cheers for all your help last saturday at Badger 5 on my Leon,what a pain in the arse car's are sometimes eh Think everyone was getting cheesed off by the end, will probabaly see you there again when i drop the car off for it's rods and higher boost map as soon as Bill can fit me in

Regards

Tom & dad (pete)

Dito


Pete & son (Tom) LOL

Thanks and you are welcome.... long day but got there in the end

<tuffty/>