Battery charging where there's an electronic sensor

Crossthreaded

Active Member
Apr 16, 2019
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I started getting into this a wee while ago and I think I remember RUM4MO giving me an answer. Unfortunately I can't remember all of it and anyway I've been reading some more on google in the meantime. I also have some more specific knowledge of applying this to my 2016 Ibiza 1.0 3 cylinder 95hp. - which has one of these sensors.
For anyone who's not too sure what I'm talking about here's quite a good wee introduction: https://www.samarins.com/glossary/battery-sensor.html

We are old so pretty much observing lock down. However we are both fit and as healthy as most of our age so we go walks etc all observing the proper distancing. Don't use the car for any of it though. Once a week we drive for half an hour across the city to a small town just outside the city limits to give support - observing strict distancing - to a family member who is recovering from a psychotic illness. An hour chatting over the garden gate is helping a lot. Then we drive back. All very safe, no contact with anyone. I accept that if the car breaks down things will be more difficult but it's quite a new car and, being a retired mechanic, I keep it in good nick - couple of friends own garages too so help would be easily available. My immediate concern is that I think my battery is suffering due to lack of use with all this lock down nonsense. In total it's getting about an hour's running a week. The car has never failed to start and cranks enthusiastically each time. The battery is an Enhanced Flooded type and I've been monitoring battery voltage for the last few weeks. Typically it will read around 12.5 to 12.6 volts if checked a few hours after returning home (so any surface charge effect will have dissipated) This, whilst not fantastic, is probably reasonable for a four+ year old battery but by the end of the week - might be 8 or 9 days sometimes - it's dropped to around 12.1 volts which is not so great at all. - Still spins up nice and fast and starts well though. The indicator window on top of the cells is staying black too. There is probably current drain going on with the alarm and all the other electronic nonsense in the car and I don't want to delve too deeply whilst our local auto sparks is closed so I would like to be able to leave it on the charger (which can do maintenance charging) when I'm not using it.

I'm going to try to post a picture when I'm finished, so let's assume that works? then the first thing to say is you can see that my battery charger is a "smart" charger which is suitable for connecting to batteries which are still in circuit with the car (says so in it's brochure/instructions.) I seem to remember in the previous post that a recommendation was made to connect the negative charger lead to that domed nut you can see just above the negative crock clip and I've come across a pdf for the Ateca which actually tells you to connect the negative charger lead here (positive clip to pos battery terminal).

The big question is though, has anyone tried doing this. I'm an "old school" mechanic so modern electronics are all a bit "smoke and mirrors" to me and, despite having read the Ateca manual I don't feel all that confident. - of course my car is not an Ateca, it's an Ibiza, but the setup looks visually the same. I noticed that my Ibiza manual says to connect the negative lead here if jump starting as does the Ateca, so I think they are the same. By the way, for those not "in the know", (and assuming I manage to post the picture!) if you look at the right battery terminal - which is the earth - can you see a black plastic thingy which is part of the cable terminal ? it's got a wee connector coming out of it's top. That's the sensor. Worth knowing too that if you try a jump start by connecting to both battery terminals (as you could, but would be best not too, on the old cars) you'll almost certainly be shelling out for a new one! The general info on jump starts now - if you dare? - is to go pos to pos on the two batteries but then chassis to chassis with the negative lead (I go engine block to engine block - when I'm feeling brave enough to try it, which isn't often) I believe this ensures that the sensor is not subject to a reverse current.

So, after all that, will I be Ok to connect my charger's pos crock to the battery pos and charger neg crock to that big domed earth nut on the inner wing - you can see it in the picture just above the charger's neg crock connector. Thanks in advance for any help.
 

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RUM4MO

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Jun 4, 2008
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South Scotland
In short, yes, that is what I do when topping up my wife's 2015 VW Polo, also on my Audi S4 which tends to spend most of its time asleep in the garage, I'm effectively doing the same thing, I'm saying that as with car that have the battery in the boot, jumping postings are supplied under the bonnet and the +VE is a heavy lead taken from the battery +VE and the -VE is screwed to a stud on the chassis.

I like using CTEK products as it seems most luxury or "toy" car makers buy that brand and still their own name on them as these sorts of cars some models anyway, including Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, etc either include a rebranded CTEK smart charger with the car as it might spend a lot of its life out of use in a garage, or sell these smart chargers rebranded I their own name as a handy extra.

After maybe 4.5 years of perfect behaviour from my CTEK MXS 5.0 Test and Charge, I finally got round to checking the health of that Audi S4's AGM battery which hides under the skinny spare wheel in the boot, the results that I got from my CTEK battery analyser were:- 12.3V - battery GOOD, recharge - 825A CCA (EN). Everything being reported was okay except for the present battery voltage, that car has been connected to my charger for 3 weeks since I last used that car and I had only removed that charger 4 hours before checking that batterie's health, so I had expected its voltage to be more like 12.9V - just a guess. So, after reloading the boot again I connected that charger back up to my car but connected a DVM across the connected crock clips and kept an eye on the DVM when I switched the charger's mains supply back on, it started at 12.58, the charger moved up through the steps in its charging program which should mean that the voltage changes as does the current both of which remain fixed at times, the next day the charger was at the fully charged point in the charging program and the measured voltage was still 12.58V! Investigating further, the safe starting charging voltage level after the initial peaky de-sulphating stage is 12.6V, so it seemed like this charger was not altering the voltage level as intended. I then connected it to a jump pack GEL battery which is just a HillBilly golf buggy battery, and it behaved the same way! I recharged my Audi S4 battery using another CTEK charger and support unit and it took a reasonable time to reach the fully charged stage and it held its charge well over the next couple of days after removing this other charger. So once this S4 battery had dropped back a bit I reconnected my CTEK MXS 5.0 and tried to perform a re-boot by holding the Mode switch down while power cycling its mains supply, after a few attempts, this charger returned to operating as it used to and a few days later, it is still at the fully charged stage and at the correct voltage for that point which is 13.6V.

Only thing is, looking back, I possibly did get a warning that something had happened, as a week or so after connected it to that car, ie after having used that car last, I went into the garage, and as always check the status of that running charger by looking at its LEDs, and its "error" red LED was on, I power cycled that charger's mains supply and it started to look like it was now running okay with no faults - but now I think that it probably was not!
So, my top tip here is for anyone using a smart battery charger over a long period in time, is to actually check the voltage every week to avoid being a bit disappointed when you next go to use that car.
It could be that this only ever happens to 1 in 1000 smart chargers or CTEK charger and it only happens once in 5 years, but it has now happened to me, so for a time, I'll be keeping an eye on these chargers while they are in use.
That charger is still under its initial 5 years limited warranty and I'm not sure that I'd get my money back from Halfords, but it has 6 months left to prove it really is okay or I'll be forced to try to get Halfords to fix or replace it, luckily I still have my receipt!
 

Crossthreaded

Active Member
Apr 16, 2019
536
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In short, yes, that is what I do when topping up my wife's 2015 VW Polo, also on my Audi S4 which tends to spend most of its time asleep in the garage, I'm effectively doing the same thing, I'm saying that as with car that have the battery in the boot, jumping postings are supplied under the bonnet and the +VE is a heavy lead taken from the battery +VE and the -VE is screwed to a stud on the chassis.

I like using CTEK products as it seems most luxury or "toy" car makers buy that brand and still their own name on them as these sorts of cars some models anyway, including Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, etc either include a rebranded CTEK smart charger with the car as it might spend a lot of its life out of use in a garage, or sell these smart chargers rebranded I their own name as a handy extra.

After maybe 4.5 years of perfect behaviour from my CTEK MXS 5.0 Test and Charge, I finally got round to checking the health of that Audi S4's AGM battery which hides under the skinny spare wheel in the boot, the results that I got from my CTEK battery analyser were:- 12.3V - battery GOOD, recharge - 825A CCA (EN). Everything being reported was okay except for the present battery voltage, that car has been connected to my charger for 3 weeks since I last used that car and I had only removed that charger 4 hours before checking that batterie's health, so I had expected its voltage to be more like 12.9V - just a guess. So, after reloading the boot again I connected that charger back up to my car but connected a DVM across the connected crock clips and kept an eye on the DVM when I switched the charger's mains supply back on, it started at 12.58, the charger moved up through the steps in its charging program which should mean that the voltage changes as does the current both of which remain fixed at times, the next day the charger was at the fully charged point in the charging program and the measured voltage was still 12.58V! Investigating further, the safe starting charging voltage level after the initial peaky de-sulphating stage is 12.6V, so it seemed like this charger was not altering the voltage level as intended. I then connected it to a jump pack GEL battery which is just a HillBilly golf buggy battery, and it behaved the same way! I recharged my Audi S4 battery using another CTEK charger and support unit and it took a reasonable time to reach the fully charged stage and it held its charge well over the next couple of days after removing this other charger. So once this S4 battery had dropped back a bit I reconnected my CTEK MXS 5.0 and tried to perform a re-boot by holding the Mode switch down while power cycling its mains supply, after a few attempts, this charger returned to operating as it used to and a few days later, it is still at the fully charged stage and at the correct voltage for that point which is 13.6V.

Only thing is, looking back, I possibly did get a warning that something had happened, as a week or so after connected it to that car, ie after having used that car last, I went into the garage, and as always check the status of that running charger by looking at its LEDs, and its "error" red LED was on, I power cycled that charger's mains supply and it started to look like it was now running okay with no faults - but now I think that it probably was not!
So, my top tip here is for anyone using a smart battery charger over a long period in time, is to actually check the voltage every week to avoid being a bit disappointed when you next go to use that car.
It could be that this only ever happens to 1 in 1000 smart chargers or CTEK charger and it only happens once in 5 years, but it has now happened to me, so for a time, I'll be keeping an eye on these chargers while they are in use.
That charger is still under its initial 5 years limited warranty and I'm not sure that I'd get my money back from Halfords, but it has 6 months left to prove it really is okay or I'll be forced to try to get Halfords to fix or replace it, luckily I still have my receipt!
Thanks for all that RUM - much appreciated. Today I emailed both SEAT and CTEK for their specific recommendation for my car. SEAT replied immediately with a message that they are forwarding my query to their technical people, nothing from CTEK yet. If I get anything of consequence back I'll be sure to update you all. I'm beginning to feel a little more confident about connecting the charger pos to the battery pos and charger neg to that domed nut, especially as it's actually detailed in the Ateca owners manual. I just always feel so nervous where I perceive the possibility of an electronic disaster!
While I'm here, I'm used to the idea, if you disconnect the battery, of loosing the radio and maybe other functions - for instance the windows have to be cycled on my boy's Astra. Do you know specifically what problems arise with these newer cars - especially my 2016 Ibiza - if the battery power is interrupted?
Kind regards - stay safe.
 

RUM4MO

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Jun 4, 2008
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I think, only think, that the windows re no longer an issue on these cars, nor the radio, you will lose saved fuel computer data for the present tank full and the final thing is the electric steering will lose its acquired data and so I believe that the dash might light up like a Christmas tree - well slightly, until you have driven a short distance and the electric steering system has relearned things.

One thing on the issue of where to connect any -VE side of charging or jump leads, is the -VE battery post should have a "don't connect to this point!" notice on the cover for the -VE battery post, and the +VW post should also have a plain cover with nothing on it other than a + my wife's 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI had no covers on the battery posts - which in my mind is not on, so I bought suitable ones,, these cars should come with these posts covered, the +VE one because it is not at metal work potential and the -VE to bring to everyone's attention that no charging or jumping leads should be connected to that battery post.
Stay safe - keep happy!
 

Crossthreaded

Active Member
Apr 16, 2019
536
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I think, only think, that the windows re no longer an issue on these cars, nor the radio, you will lose saved fuel computer data for the present tank full and the final thing is the electric steering will lose its acquired data and so I believe that the dash might light up like a Christmas tree - well slightly, until you have driven a short distance and the electric steering system has relearned things.

One thing on the issue of where to connect any -VE side of charging or jump leads, is the -VE battery post should have a "don't connect to this point!" notice on the cover for the -VE battery post, and the +VW post should also have a plain cover with nothing on it other than a + my wife's 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI had no covers on the battery posts - which in my mind is not on, so I bought suitable ones,, these cars should come with these posts covered, the +VE one because it is not at metal work potential and the -VE to bring to everyone's attention that no charging or jumping leads should be connected to that battery post.
Stay safe - keep happy!
I intend to have a word with the lads at AVW, once they are open for business again, specifically to ask about what happens if I disconnect the battery and what the procedure is if a new battery ever needs to be fitted. I believe I could do this with my VCDS but, given a reasonable price, I'd probably just let them do it.

I'll attach a picture, maybe 2 if I can figure out how to do more than one, at the end of this post showing the guards installed on my battery. I removed them to show the negative terminal sensor in my previous post. The illustration is very clear to me that you must not connect to the battery negative terminal and it shows the connection is to be made to the domed earthing nut. However it shows a, very recognizable, jump lead type clamp - don't you think? So it left me feeling very uncertain if it applies to the likes of a charger. Reading the owners manual, if you look in the index at the back - Page 236, - it actually lists "charging the battery" and tells you to look at page 52 where it gives very detailed, and welcome, instructions as to how to connect for a jump start (different depending on whether you have stop/start or not) but not a word (either here or elsewhere in the manual) about charging. You could make an educated guess that connecting the negative charger lead to the domed nut and positive to battery positive is probably the way to go (and that's actually what I saw in the Ateca manual PDF I found on the internet) but I'd feel more confident to see it in print in the Ibiza's manual.

It'll be very interesting to see what the reply from SEAT's tech people is. will they give a detailed recommendation or will they "fudge it" like our politicians, when asked an "awkward" question and push me to the dealer? Bets anyone?

On that subject, Anyone else on here who's as thoroughly fed up as me with the way our politicians evade so many of the, very important, questions they are asked? Presumably they are intelligent people? Can't they see how this evasion destroys our respect and trust in them? Although I'm not a "political animal" I have to say I've found listening to "our Nicola" much more satisfactory - she tends to "call a spade a spade" and utters very few eeers and uuums.
 

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Seastormer

Cupra Leon VZ2 300/CBF1000
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I still use the Optimate charger/maintainer, never ever had any problems, been connected to all my bikes for years and the battery was still ok at 7 years. My current 2014 Cupra 280 has still the original battery and is showing full green, like it did when the car was brand new. Currently the car is on Opt 6 and the bike on Opt 4, still have my original Opt 1 and 3 as well as an Accumate that I used on my ice cream van, and all still work, only changed to the 4 and 6 as they are easier to read what is going on, and will recover an old battery that would otherwise be fit for the bin. Great brand imo.
 

RUM4MO

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Yes I seem to remember that Optimate was the brand to head for - until CTEK came along and made themselves high profile, so that is what lots of people now buy.

Politicians, just take these higher level jobs on as vanity projects for later life, ie until they have been caught out, what is the relevant saying "fake it until you know it" or get fed to the wolves to act as cover ups. There will be some genuinely good people taking on these jobs but mainly they get pushed to one side to let the donkeys through.

At work, I remember a time when most people trusted their equals and superiors, that seemed to work okay, then the fresh breeze of "progress" blew through then shiny suits and pointy shoes were the important attributes - and nothing was written down, don't use emails or you get into trouble, ie accountability went out the window, same with most of those that rise to the top in politics.

It is said we get the politicians that we deserve, I for one am not interested in representing my area in government - but I think that all the current political parties need to be challenged by a new breed/range of parties and UK parliament get set up for power sharing as the norm, but who really cares, though we will continue to complain a very British trait - and these established political parties know that.
 

RUM4MO

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Sorry, I forgot about the question about what/how you sort things out after replacing a battery, well to start with I always plan to connect a support supply to the car while swopping batteries, and I can do that in many ways:- either connect a small 12V battery in parallel with the fitted battery, or connect a support unit, ie a 12V vehicle power supply, or connect a charged 12 battery to the car via the OBD2 port. I think that the last option is the one that I will use if I need to replace a battery as I have all the options to hand but that one seems like the easiest one to use.

Reg'ng the fact that you have replaced the battery with the car's battery charge management system is easy when he have VCDS, and soon even with Carista it seems - you can find the details for the present battery in module 19 which is the CAN Gateway which is where the Battery Monitoring Control Module exists. Then select Advanced Measuring Values - then you can view everything relating to the battery - these entries are well down the list so you will need to scroll waaaay down to find them, they are in a group and mainly come with "Battery" as the first word of their description. To modify things when fitting a new battery you probably need to go to another heading in that area, I've forgotten probably Adaptions and just change the battery serial number, even by one digit is enough to tell the system that a new battery has been fitted
 
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Crossthreaded

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Sorry, I forgot about the question about what/how you sort things out after replacing a battery, well to start with I always plan to connect a support supply to the car while swopping batteries, and I can do that in many ways:- either connect a small 12V battery in parallel with the fitted battery, or connect a support unit, ie a 12V vehicle power supply, or connect a charged 12 battery to the car via the OBD2 port. I think that the last option is the one that I will use if I need to replace a battery as I have all the options to hand but that one seems like the easiest one to use.

Reg'ng the fact that you have replaced the battery with the car's battery charge management system is easy when he have VCDS, and soon even with Carista it seems - you can find the details for the present battery in module 19 which is the CAN Gateway which is where the Battery Monitoring Control Module exists. Then select Advanced Measuring Values - then you can view everything relating to the battery - these entries are well down the list so you will need to scroll waaaay down to find them, they are in a group and mainly come with "Battery" as the first word of their description. To modify things when fitting a new battery you probably need to go to another heading in that area, I've forgotten probably Adaptions and just change the battery serial number, even by one digit is enough to tell the system that a new battery has been fitted
Thanks RUM. I've tried doing continuity of power supply with another battery connected in parallel across the terminals but it can be a bit dodgy as I've, more than once, made extra work for myself by dislodging one of the clips! luckily without any shorts! I also have a cigar lighter adapter which works well but I've seen those OBD port connectors and I agree with you they look like the best option so I'll be buying one soon. I've had a reply back from SEAT simply saying to connect the charger directly across the battery posts. I'm feeling a little unhappy about this, especially when that sticker on the post guard seems to specifically forbid it? So I've included a picture of it and contacted them again to request clarification. It'll be interesting to see what comes back. Nothing from CTEK yet.
 

Crossthreaded

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Apr 16, 2019
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Thanks RUM. I've tried doing continuity of power supply with another battery connected in parallel across the terminals but it can be a bit dodgy as I've, more than once, made extra work for myself by dislodging one of the clips! luckily without any shorts! I also have a cigar lighter adapter which works well but I've seen those OBD port connectors and I agree with you they look like the best option so I'll be buying one soon. I've had a reply back from SEAT simply saying to connect the charger directly across the battery posts. I'm feeling a little unhappy about this, especially when that sticker on the post guard seems to specifically forbid it? So I've included a picture of it and contacted them again to request clarification. It'll be interesting to see what comes back. Nothing from CTEK yet.
By the way, whilst we are on the subject of batteries and dealing with them when they are "flat". If I have to jump start I have a big old 12 volt battery which was new in my diesel Cordoba just before I had to scrap it (isn't that always the way of it) which I use.- I avoid, almost at any expense, jumping one vehicle with another to avoid the well known problems. With several older vehicles belonging to younger family members It sees use on a depressingly regular basis (last time was when my granddaughter learned how to switch on the interior light in their old Jazz which rendered it a non starter next morning!) but it's not something you carry around every day in the boot though so I've been thinking about a jump pack. I don't really want a battery driven pack because you've got to remember to keep them charged and, after a number of years, the batteries will themselves fail. So I'm intrigued by these new Super Capacitor jobbies. Anyone got any thoughts on them or experience with them? The only draw backs I can see is that you won't get an extended cranking time and perhaps wouldn't work so well on a cold diesel where the preheat on the glow plugs will likely deplete the pack so that it won't have enough left to crank. However for petrol engines it looks very promising.
 

RUM4MO

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I'm a bit too much old school and a retired test engineer to jump into buying one of these "super capacitor" compact jump packs - from a retired test engineer friend, who I persuaded to buy a battery based jump pack the day his car eventually failed to start - a mutual friend drove round with a battery and long leads t get it going, this friend then as part of his shopping outing parked outside Halfords and collected his jump pack, well now he has used it again once and used it on neighbours cars a couple of times, as you might expect during this period of lockdown. Although now he seems to think that having it in back of the car steals space - only two people and shopping in a C3 but there you go, and has ordered a capacitor based jump pack, and while going through the pros and cons, it seems that you can only use them to top up a slight "too low to start car" battery - and you MUST remove it before cranking the car over and a few other limitations. I have been using a small tyre compressor for years, or a few of them for years as they only last a few years, and so my battery based jump pack gets used to power that so get recharged regularly and even kept in the house in winter. I have had to replace its battery once over the past 20 years, they tend to have a golf buggy - HillyBilly battery in them roughly 17>20AH so easy and cheap to buy online.

So there you have my old fashioned or cautious or smart view on these compact jump packs, I don't mind being proved wrong about them though.
 

Crossthreaded

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Apr 16, 2019
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Thank
I'm a bit too much old school and a retired test engineer to jump into buying one of these "super capacitor" compact jump packs - from a retired test engineer friend, who I persuaded to buy a battery based jump pack the day his car eventually failed to start - a mutual friend drove round with a battery and long leads t get it going, this friend then as part of his shopping outing parked outside Halfords and collected his jump pack, well now he has used it again once and used it on neighbours cars a couple of times, as you might expect during this period of lockdown. Although now he seems to think that having it in back of the car steals space - only two people and shopping in a C3 but there you go, and has ordered a capacitor based jump pack, and while going through the pros and cons, it seems that you can only use them to top up a slight "too low to start car" battery - and you MUST remove it before cranking the car over and a few other limitations. I have been using a small tyre compressor for years, or a few of them for years as they only last a few years, and so my battery based jump pack gets used to power that so get recharged regularly and even kept in the house in winter. I have had to replace its battery once over the past 20 years, they tend to have a golf buggy - HillyBilly battery in them roughly 17>20AH so easy and cheap to buy online.

So there you have my old fashioned or cautious or smart view on these compact jump packs, I don't mind being proved wrong about them though.
Thanks for the input RUM. I get on well with my big battery and it gives a lot of reserve for cranking if needed (like pumping fuel through on older cars) It's just such a Phaf if I'm out at one of my boy's house, need it and have to come all the way back into town to pick it up.

Regarding "too low to start" situations. these small Li ion packs seem to suffer that problem because they just don't have any real "teeth". The super capacitor seem to be a different idea all together an can easily cope with batteries in a very low state of charge. Their big drawback seems to be a limited storage capacity so potentially quite a short cranking duration. I've been looking into them and if I understand correctly they consist of an array of (typically 5 or 6 I think) super capacitors which can be configured either in parallel or series with electronics to control the charging process. It would seem that a typical super capacitor can be charged up to somewhere around 2.5 to 2.7 volts without damaging it and somewhat higher if component life is not important. So by arranging the connection in parallel for charging, even a severely discharged 12 volt battery (say 5 volts or so, where no possibility of cranking would be seen) can charge the capacitors. Then by switching to a series connection the, now fully charged capacitors, can be used to crank the engine.

Here's a couple of links to examples:

 
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RUM4MO

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Ah well, I've learned something about them now, handy there was an old Land Rover around to charge it!

The sort of faded yellow jump pack is exactly what I have though it is now minus its built in tyre compressor so a bit slimmer!
 
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Crossthreaded

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Ah well, I've learned something about them now, handy there was an old Land Rover around to charge it!
Right enough, That rocker cover would be difficult to miss - but I did - Don't make air filters like that any more either!
 

Crossthreaded

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Yes, no "remove and bin element" involved there! It was the air cleaner that I noticed first!
Love that heater control valve too, even when new, guaranteed to leak before too long! Wonder why it took so long for a bright spark to come up with the idea of running hot water though the matrix all the time and using a simple flap to modulate air supply. Of course that worked too well didn't it? so some "clever clogs" decided to make it pneumatically (or electrically) activated. Then they were happy because it could develop expensive faults again!
 

RUM4MO

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I'm not sure how far we got on the "do you fit the charger -VE to the battery or to the body bonding point" but I have just re-read a thread on the Skoda forum, where someone included a picture taken from their Superb handbook that not only clarified what exactly to do when jump starting, but also, in a far away section clarified what tp do wrt charging an installed battery and the advice from Skoda was, if the car is Stop/Start then always connect the -VE to the body earth bonding point, if the car does not have Stop/Start then just connect to the battery -VE post. Obviously in all cases the +VE connects to the battery +VE post.

Normally I'd expect, from previous contact with VW UK, that any written enquiry would result in a letter requesting that you contact your local dealership - which might be better than useless because most enquiries will not get passed onto technical staff at HQ if they are actually technical at all.
 

Crossthreaded

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Apr 16, 2019
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I'm not sure how far we got on the "do you fit the charger -VE to the battery or to the body bonding point" but I have just re-read a thread on the Skoda forum, where someone included a picture taken from their Superb handbook that not only clarified what exactly to do when jump starting, but also, in a far away section clarified what tp do wrt charging an installed battery and the advice from Skoda was, if the car is Stop/Start then always connect the -VE to the body earth bonding point, if the car does not have Stop/Start then just connect to the battery -VE post. Obviously in all cases the +VE connects to the battery +VE post.

Normally I'd expect, from previous contact with VW UK, that any written enquiry would result in a letter requesting that you contact your local dealership - which might be better than useless because most enquiries will not get passed onto technical staff at HQ if they are actually technical at all.
Thankd again RUM. This is very much what the advice was in the pdf I saw of the Ateca manual - For stop/start, charger pos to battery pos and charger neg to domed nut body earthing point. Didn't see a non stop/start recommendation, but they probably don't make a non stop/start version? So I think this is how I'll be trying it but I want to have a chat with AVW first. I've had another really thorough search of my Ibiza manual and there's definitely no advice on battery charging, only jumping.

The jump starting instruction I find interesting. For vehicles without stop/start connect pos to pos both batteries then neg on "good" battery to chassis/engine block. (pretty standard advice for jumping anything in my experience) However if it has stop/start and you are jumping from another stop/start vehicle then the positive leads are connected as normal (pos to pos) but the negative lead doesn't go anywhere near the battery on either vehicle, it gets connected chassis/engine block on one to chassis/engine block on the other - Connecting to the chassis/block on the "good" (donor) vehicle is new to me.

I've had another email from SEAT and they are sounding quite "nervous" saying they are unable to advise me further as they are not familiar with the charger I'm intending to use. I'm not really surprised by this, can't blame them really, but it would have been refreshing to have received a more "grown up" reply. Still awaiting CTEK to reply.

So, at this point in time, I am feeling moderately confident that connecting that neg lead from the charger to the domed nut will be the way to go.
 

Crossthreaded

Active Member
Apr 16, 2019
536
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Had a reply from CTEK. First off they apologized for not replying more quickly but they have been snowed under by an "enormous increase in mail requiring support due to these extraordinary circumstances" (the use of words is a little amusing so I think it's Sweden who are replying). I have a vision now of droves of immobile vehicles with flat batteries languishing at the side of streets all over the country. Golden opportunity here for the "wide boys" to sell lots of batteries to people who don't need them?

Regarding how to connect the charger, they first advise that connections should be made according to the vehicle manufacturer. That doesn't surprise me at all - it's called covering your back! They could have stopped there but impressed me by going on to say that when "no other recommendations are available connecting the red clamp to the battery positive pol (presume they mean pole) and negative connector to the chassis is not only for common safety reasons" (something slightly lost in translation there I feel?

But they didn't finish at that, going on to say, "Vehicles with BMS system (Battery Monitoring I'm guessing?) can be tricky to place connectors correctly but you will always be on the safe side when you connect to an earth point on the chassis".

I'm quite impressed with their reply, they could so easily have "hid" behind "connect as the vehicle manufacturer says". I'm now feeling that this advice, coupled with what I read regarding connecting to the Ateca, supports connecting that negative charger lead to the domed earth nut - as, I think, you've already recommended RUM? - on the inner wing. and I'm feeling quite confident now that I should do this.

Someone either on here or in another similar conversation I'm having elsewhere, reminded me that these clever "smart" chargers will sometimes hit the battery with a "waking up" voltage spike (can be as high, briefly, as 20 volts) if it ascertains it needs it during the initial diagnostic part of it's procedure. I've read about this before and it worries me quite a bit as I can't see some of the more vulnerable electronics being very happy about it. However I think mine only does that if you specifically select the "recond" program. However as I'm not sure I've requested clarification from CTEK. I'll let you know what comes back.
 

RUM4MO

Active Member
Jun 4, 2008
7,784
983
South Scotland
I missed this posting, so yes BMS is Battery Management System.

There will be some highish voltage applied during de-sulphating but remember a battery is a bit like a capacitor and will quench/drop that initial pulse quite effectively, it would take a beast of a charger to be able to sustain and deliver a 20 volt pulse of much duration into a battery which has miili ohm, typically 4>6milli ohms internal resistance.

I cleared a couple of opposite faces on that domed nut as they all seem to get painted the car's body colour, and applied some petroleum jelly to protect it from corrosion, but I'd think that most crock clips will bite through that paint - but I was not going to rely on it.
 
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