Bilstein B6 question

[Mancseat]

Hiya all, I've been doing a bit of research into upgrading the suspension on my 1M2 Toledo without lowering.

I'd been considering B4 bilstein shocks and standard springs and upgrading the front ARB and fitting a rear ARB, my insurance company however will not accept the rear ARB mod thus voiding my insurance if fitted, so I started looking around.

The B6 shock absorbers and standard springs seemed a reasonable potential solution and would cost a similar sum altogether. Some reviews mentioned this can result in a much harsher ride though.

On further reading and a bit of investigation it would seem the front B6 recommended for my car by Bilstein was intended for use with standard 15" wheels. The recommendation for the LCR is a slightly different shock based on the standard 17" wheels. The result being a smoother ride as a result of different valving to compensate for wheel size/ tyre profile.

The question I have not been able to answer, so far, is will the LCR shocks fit the Toledo i.e. same diameter bottom tube and top mount/bearing assembly.

The other Leon variants have the same codes recommended as the Toledo.

I'd like to find out beforehand as I run 17" in summer and obviously do more miles on them. Given the LCR front shocks are only a tenner more each would prefer to fit them as they are closer to my running spec.

Cheers in advance for any help.

 

[Slimy]

I don't think it's just the shock you have to deal with. The LCR came with a slightly different set up (different mounting for the ARB drop links, cast arm rather than pressed, etc). So I'm not sure they will fit. As you have seen, up to the LC the set up is the same, just different spring and damper rates depending on the engine size and fuel type.

If you want to stiffen things up, then you will get a harsher ride. I don't think you will get much of a compromise. Having said that, I put B4's on my car and it's come alive. Don't forget at best your suspension will be seven years old and have thousands of miles on it, just replacing old for new will improve things no end. I have 17's with the B4's, and I consider it to be 'tight' rather than 'harsh'.

 

[Mancseat]

Cheers Slimy, just wrote a long reply and lost it

I've checked and my rear springs are only 2 years old. About 15k if the mots are to be believed. Looking at the dampers they are B4s a similar age. The front may well be original.

This set up doesn't work to my liking.
The B6 seems like the route to go down given I will be penalised for fitting an uprated front and a rear ARB.

The insurance co are happy as long as the car remains stock height, if I can take the body roll out somehow then I'd prefer to do that.

Fyi someone has fitted LCR dampers to a Toledo. There's a thread on here somewhere, stating you can use them together with the pressed standard wishbones and standard ARB, leaving the ARB mount on the damper unused.

Idiot here forgot to bookmark the thread. It wasn't clear if the front top mounts had to be changed though. The rears for all models I checked were the same code.

 

[Slimy]

I'm fairly sure the top mounts are standard across the range, so you should be ok there. And yes, I do expect the rears to be the same as the rear of the car doesn't change that much between models. Even between the Leon and Toledo there's not that much difference in rear axle weight.

 

[Mancseat]

Cheers again for the info Slimy.

I was wondering if you had a rear ARB fitted as you seem very pleased with the way your Toledo handles after you fitted the B4s and also did you renew the wishbone and rear beam bushes at the same time?

 

[Slimy]

I replaced the wishbone bushes with powerflex at the same time, so potentially that would have tightened things up as well. I did buy the rear beam bushes but didn't fit them. That's a job to be done!! I also had to go back in a few months later to replace the top mounts, should have done those the first time and I recommend you do the same. I don't think they improved things, its just that they were pretty much destroyed by the new suspension.

About six months later I had a go with a rear ARB, but that actually changes the behaviour of the car rather than stiffening it up. I enjoyed it, but I'm not convinced it suits my driving.

 

[Mario]

Hello there I fitted Bilstein shocks to my LCR about 6 years ago kept the standard springs and rubbers.
Car drives nice.
I cant remember what model numer they were, so I cant help answer your question, sorry about that.
I bought them from Demon tweaks and asked them a few questions, they were quite helpful.
This was a while ago though.

Good luck.

 

[Mancseat]

Top mounts were on the shopping list, thanks for the tip though. It's good to get an opinion that reinforces your own.

I was intending using TT rear wishbone bushes, OEM fronts and LCR rear beam bushes, seems a tried and tested formula that's a bit softer than poly but much stiffer than standard.

I'm going to do the ARB bushes and drop links too, am considering using poly bushes there.



Cheers Mario, good to hear your experience.
Will give Demon Tweaks a look, find out what they suggest, hopefully get as good a service as you remember.

 

[Slimy]

My next job is ARB bushes, steering rack and rear engine mount bushes, all powerflex. I'll probably just replace the drop links with new ones, as they're likely to be the original ones.

I don't find powerflex that hard, granted I do get a few 'clunks' on rough surfaces from them but they're not what I would call uncomfortable. I don't know whether they've got that reputation because they're normally associated with dropped-to-the-floor coilovers, and it's the lack of suspension travel that makes things stiffer.

The one thing to consider is that the rear wishbone bush can be fiddly to fit if you get a certain type. The powerflex bushes are all flexible material, they can simply be pressed in with a few garage tools and a bit of swearing. The OEM (and potentially the TT) bushes come with a metal casing round the bush, that looks like it requires some sort of hydraulic press to fit them.

 

[Mancseat]

I've got access to a press, so that's not a problem but you've got me reconsidering poly bushes.

The overall cost for the wishbone and rear beam bushes are very similar as a combined package but I don't really like the highly noticeable colour of the powerflex ones, although the lifetime guarantee, whatever that means, is very appealing.

Iirc, I read on the Powerflex site they will produce any colour bushes you like (black personally) although how much extra they will charge for that service is not readily available.

I think the other point to consider here is, if I do go down the B6 route, the combination of stiffer dampers and poly bushes may be a little too much.

 

[Slimy]

Noticeable? LOL, that's really made me laugh! Firstly, only a tiny amount of the rubber is actually visible once you've put it together. Then you're putting a wheel in front of it which hides it more. Finally UK roads are so filthy that they'll turn black pretty soon anyway!

I really wouldn't worry about it, yes they are bright purple but you can't see them that much. And they're not even the worst, Superpro are bright yellow as standard!

If you're anywhere near Wolverhampton or Derby I can take you for a drive if you want to see what B4's + Powerflex + 17's feels like.

 

[Mancseat]

Glad I made someone laugh. The devil is in the detail so they say.

Thanks for the very generous offer.
I'm around Shrewsbury quite regularly so pm me your number and I'll give you a bell and arrange something.