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Coilover obession - Why do you really want coilovers???

Discussion in 'Modifications and Styling' started by warren_cox, Jan 9, 2009.

  1. james.g

    james.g Active Member

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    I apologise unreservedly if it came across that way. It certainly wasn't my intention.

    It does concern me that all too many people change their suspension without any thought as to the consequences. Unless you get the kit installed at a trustworthy and knowledgeable workshop you can have all manner of odd quirks in the handling.

    I'd be more than happy to advise anyone on what modifications have what impacts and how different settings have effects on the handling.

    I would also endorse what Willie has said above regarding driver training. I found this really useful not only for going fast on a track, but understanding what your car is doing and why.
     
  2. Aimez

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    lol handbags boys calm down! Glad AmD fitted my coilovers for me last week then lol!
     
  3. itfben

    itfben DsignVinyl.com

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    sorry to bring up an old thread but i have just spent hours reading it so i feel well within my right to a 02.13 in the morning! lol :lol:


    I have to agree with Aimez last post there haha handbags! brilliant. :)


    I do see what everyone is saying, and definitely can see what Willie is saying, Iv just read the whole thread and boy there are so many (technical) things that have gone WAY over my head.

    Iv got a feeling my requirements are going to be very similar to a large proportion of people on the forum as I feel I am in a common situation. So here goes

    I would like to lower my car for aesthetical reasons as the wheel to arch size is too big for my liking, seems that I am definitely not alone on this one. The thing is I am not in a huge rush to buy new suspension (haha typical isnt it, i was sooo close to typing "coilovers" then:p) as I have some god awful body kit on my car at the moment as some of you may know. The problem this body kit has faced me with is it has left my car with a gap of 12cm!!! between the lowest part of my car / bumpers (the skirts) to the tarmac. Now this has lead to some scrapping much done by the previous owner :p but I experienced this horrible and painful sound every time i went over the freshly installed college speed bumps (hence why I signed up to the CRASH partition @ www.joincrash.com - check it out!) but this has got a bit better now the speed humps have worn down slightly in size due to use and the fact peoples cars have been scrapping off the top layers :( so the reason Im not in a rush is because Im still waiting on my new LCR bumpers to get all sorted out. Anyway, when they are sorted out i would like to lower the car to close up that big gap between my wheels are my arches. Im not thinking anyting tooo drastic 30-60mm i think. I heard 35mm was a perfect number to avoid any problems (source for this info: http://www.torquecars.com/tuning/suspension.php) I also (dont wana sound cheap here) but dont have a huge budget for this. the cheap £150-£200 coilovers on eBay seem like the perfect price to me, but after seeing and reading this thread got me thinking, and my question is could I get a quality quality set of shocks / springs for that? Im not going to be going on any track days, and if i do then my cars only a 1.6 so I will not be taking it too seriously and will just be for the experience and fun so adjusting my coilovers probably isnt going to be happening so from what has been said one here, leads me to believe shocks and springs would be my best bet, also my ride is a bit crashy at the moment (something i need to get checked out) and i HATE IT, its driving me mad so I would also like a nice soft ride too, so is shocks & springs my best route and have to got some recommendations for my budget? I have considered raising my budget a bit after thought to maybe £350 MAX but I would really want to justify this. maybe suggestions on both budgets?

    One more thing, my mate had his mk4 golf with the same 18" rs4s Iv got now but lowered 90mm on Jamex coilovers from eBay (i think) and I hated how noisy and horrible that ride was.



    (Sorry for the LONG post)
     
  4. CupraDaveG

    CupraDaveG Active Member

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    When i read this, all i could think was "this guy needs to stop worrying what other people spend there money on"

    does it really bother you if you see someone fitting coilovers to a 1.4? Obviously it bothers you so much that you need to write about it on here. Oh well, i wouldnt worry about what people do to there cars so much, its not you who has to drive it.

    The way ive always looked at coilovers is simple. I used to run an e36 m3, it was a daily driver, but i tracked it a few times a year. if there was a race suspsension setup specifically designed for my car, id go for it. As it would have been tried a tested specifically for my setup. But there isnt. Coilovers have "adjustment" i dont mean just the height, its the dampening, its the top mounts with Camber etc etc. With these adjusted by a professional who knows what they are doing, great results can be achieved. Results that wouldnt be capable of getting from replacing springs or normal fixed rate shocks.

    Ive always been so pleased with the coilovers i have purchased, and ive been through a few brands now. I

    But seriously, dont get upset if someone buys £1500 coils for there fiesta, or wether someone buys £200 jom's for there M3. Let them get on with it : )

    PS - i havent read the rest of the replys yet, and please dont take my post as anything negative towards you.
     
    #124 CupraDaveG, Oct 10, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2010
  5. suj

    suj Wheel Connoisseur

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    hahaha funny thread, love it :)

    remember kids, always get ya camber done when you lower the car, and try and get corner weighted (if funds allow) or do the measure each arch way (counting threads never worked for me lol)

    if I wanted wishbone angles right etc, I wouldn't be into dubbing
    do like my car to have decent geometry (like camber castor etc) but don't really care about wishbone angles etc, do I look like a trackday my car? most people don't if you do want to then do get it set properly

    the guy who tracked/cambered my car commented on how it had very good geometry (minus the camber as i knew this was out), my rear toe was out a bit (inevitable being dropped 100+mm) but said it wasn't even that bad, could do the camber shim method if I really was concerned :)

    my 2 pence :)
     
  6. Juhuts

    Juhuts No Pokemon Shit

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    Well. I didn´t even think other options than Coils, because I wanted set that i can easily mod lower or higher.
    And one thing was that those -60mm suspenssion kits wouldn´t be enough low for me :p

    And most of all i wanted to get rid of that Cordobas old jumpstick suspensions. I hated it so much! :censored:
     
  7. AlexGSi2000

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    Just read through the thread - very interesting read.

    I have a MK3 Ibiza Cupra and have had the car with a few different setups.

    When I purchased the car, it had the "Seat Sport" Billstien suspension.
    I had nothing to compare the car with previously (i.e- standard suspension) - but bearing in mind the Billstien setup was still aimed for the every day driver (as it was found on the Cupra R as standard)
    With this setup, I found the road hold good, but the body roll was evident.
    Handling wasn't superb, into fast corners, the front used to nosedive, which resulted in the cocking of a wheel at the rear - didn't like that!

    During the period I had the car off the road last year - the rear shocks started leaking (whoever fitted them didnt fit the bloody bumpstop/ dust cover).
    As I had just spent a small fortune on other bits (the reason why the car was off the road) I had to buy something that would "make do" until I could either replace the Billstien rear shocks or change the setup completely.

    I purchased a G-Max kit online for £275 (I had previously fitted G-Max shocks and springs to my Fiesta Zetec-S and found them to be good) - The G-Max kit stiffened the ride & reduced body roll to a noticeable point - in my eyes the car handled ever so slightly better.
    My problem with the G-Max kit was the fact that I do a lot of camping throughout the summer - it was a nightmare - having the car fully laden meant the wheels would scrape on the arches when confronted with pieces of gravel in the road - I found the suspension sank down too much with added weight. - great with 2 or 3 people in the car, but just not practical for what I use the car for.

    So - last month - before the weather starts getting better, I decided it was about time to do something about the suspension setup. I started looking at coilover kits for the following reasons;

    1 - Will allow me to keep the car at the same ride height or lower without the suspension "sinking" down as much.

    2 - I like the idea of being able to higher the suspension easily if needs be.

    3 - I am aiming to take part in a few track-days before the end of the year.

    Now, bearing in mind the car is my daily driver (and a tight budget) I went for the Weitec Hicon GT kit.
    I chose Weitec as I have had friends use them in the past without issues & they are made by KW.
    I did have FK Highsports on the shortlist, but after reading reviews & waching videos on youtube, I was put off (apparently leaky shocks is a common issue).

    I fitted the coilovers last weekend (haven't had it tracked/aligned yet - going to Awesome on Tuesday) - all I can say so far is that I am mightily impressed with them.
    Yes, the suspension has been stiffened again (almost to the point where I have been thinking that I fitted cylindrical tubes of concrete at the rear) - but I must admit I quite like it.
    I have lowered the car all round by a further 15mm than previously & it coped very well when I tested it out (had the car fully laden and only had the slightest scrape on the arches going down a pothole!)
    As for the handling - its pretty much eliminated body roll & the car feels more composed when cornering.

    All in all, I think im a convinced man - because of the ease of height adjustment and handling improvements im pretty convinced I would always consider coilovers for my future cars.
     
    #127 AlexGSi2000, Feb 25, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2011
  8. andycupra

    andycupra status subject to change

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    so back to the thread titloe question - why do you really want coilovers..

    well today i found a potential new reason:
    I wanted to buy a set of spring /shocks from KW and they would not sell me them saying for an LCR they would not advise a spring shock setup and would only supply me coilovers.

    I tried to enquire if it was a case that the ARB mounting was the issue. but they stuck to indicate that was not the issue.
     
  9. Aimez

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    Just had someone tell me I need to grease and check my coilovers every 3 months and maybe I should not have bought them if I cannot fit them myself! Er yeh okay I am not a track girl! I posted a thread about this before I bought them and was told twice a year is fine!

    Yeh alot of people advice against shock and spring as they damage the rest of the suspension set up or something?
     
  10. andycupra

    andycupra status subject to change

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    why?
    the stock suspension is shocks and springs...
    coilovers are also shocks with springs.. (just with an adjustable base for the spring to sit on and thus adjust the hight). They also tend to be a harsher than spring/shock set ups as they have to take into account people that set the coilovers low. So if you set coilovers to the same height as a spring/shock set up they tend be the harsh in comparison.

    If anything if going to damage other parts or put more stress on them its coilovers.
     
  11. Aimez

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    I have no idea I prob worded it wrong but there was a big reason!
     
  12. dholdi

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    Probably refering to springs only ? Go too low with just springs and that can damage the dampers.
     
  13. andycupra

    andycupra status subject to change

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    i suspected this too.. - that it was refering to lowering by simply fitting shorter springs..
    This i agree is not the best route as the shocks are not matches or shortened to take into account the shorter spring.
    (also a potential MOT failure if they are strict)
     
  14. GazEP3

    GazEP3 Missing the vtec yo :(

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    I haven't read the whole topic and don't really need to. I just wanted to say that I wholeheartedly agree, this idea that every car should be decked on coilovers is wrong. If I had a pound for every car I've seen decked on coilovers and the camber is sitting at about 70% to the car I'd be rolling in an R8 by now! A good spring and damper kit is all anyone will ever REALLY need on the road and unless you're a pro at setting up suspension geometry anyone who fits coilovers themselves is likely screwing up the handling of their car. I think half the problem is the younger kids just entering the scene just assuming that they need coilovers to be cool. Best handling car I've owned had a matching spring and damper kit fitted
     
  15. warren_cox

    warren_cox Back from the dead

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    No offense, but I thought internet forums were places for open discussion. Frankly I couldn't give a rats arse what people fit to their cars. The only thing that concerns me is when people fit some of this cheap tat to their cars and do it themselves they may be the car behind me on a wet motorway when the sea of brake lights come on.

    People get overly defensive when others ask 'why', it's nothing personal to anyone. You're right, it's none of my business, but by having a thread that debates pros and cons allows people to make informed choices. The power of the Internet!
     
  16. denMla

    denMla Active Member

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    If I can put a coment!
    Understand why you bring this question out - so many opinions based just on look and without slightest thought about car dynamics. Worldwide on "owners club forums" people lookin' for low ride and don't think about "real" speed driving.
    Those who live in big citys looking for tight corner handling, those who living outside are looking for "autobahn" or B road set ups.
    Got nothing against coilovers or against spring/dumper combo as far as it is quality product. Please, whatever camp you dear readers and participants belong, do your search at least on race forums. You could confirm or revide your opinions. There is different aproaches for autocross, road racing, oval, track use. Learn as much as possible about car dynamics and compare your driving circumstances with those. Maybe you will found out that you need that extra few inches of clearance or not or you just need something different altough everyone in your nearby think oposite.
    Often you can hear matched aftermarked spring/dumper kits does not lower the rear enough. There must be an reason for that. Ingeneers from KW, Bilstein, Eibach etc. concluded that our vehicles gain if you balance the way there is more weight distribution upfront. Then you don't need RARB so badly (rarb is prefered also when you put big spacers on the rear 'cause you have increased rear grip while front is not a match anymore...)
    In my humble opinion, coilovers are great products when you need adjustability. But that adjustability can take you on thin ice if don't have a clue what egsactly are you doing. (i'm not an smartass - got no clue also but trying to read critically).
    Coilovers can ease your life when you use your vehicle for various specific needs cause you can dial it up for just todays use and forget it tomorow.
    Matched spring/dumper sets is specific developed set up and allows you to dial up your car for your specific expectation for a bit less money (regarding similar level of quality), but in that case you are stuck with it.

    Of course, if you are racer, but not ricer, you will certainly choose top of the line coilovers due to their setting variability.
    Me personally choose spring/dumper combo just because of price - similar coilover level of quality will cost me much more and I don't think I need to change set ups more then once in lifetime of my car.

    Just my two cents! NHF to annyone and if I went wrong anywhere feel free to explain - just learning like most of people here.:cheers:
     
  17. bathie92

    bathie92 Active Member

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    I know that when i bought coilovers, I knew that i wanted a car that was Show orientated and my personal taste is for the car to be as low as possible. majority of spring setups over 35mm you need shortened shocks which is MORE money.. Also i seem to chop and change my cars "shoes" all the time so when some new alloy goes on i give it a lil tweak :)
     
  18. Aimez

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    God will someone PLEASE sort out the spelling on the title pisses me off every time this comes up! Love the way they trying to make a serious point and spelled obsession wrong! lol
     
  19. jamesy_m

    jamesy_m Guest

    Bit of a thread revival - but part of the reason that I'm over here posting is due to the coilovers on my current car.

    I can honestly say that for everyday driving, they're horrible to live with. They're set as soft as they'll go but you can still barely move the car if you push it down. They cause everything in the interior to rattle and the pillowball top mounts are harsh and noisy.

    On the open road, they're fantastic and the car feels so planted like a go-kart. But for everyday driving, I can't wait to go back to a set of decent shocks and springs.
     
  20. air121005

    air121005 Active Member

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    what make of coilovers have you got fitted?
     

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