Cupra - Deciding on gearbox

alper

Active Member
Feb 28, 2016
108
7
So which one it is? Good old manual or DSG? I currently drive a car with a DSG7 dry clutch gearbox and in short I pretty much love it. Not to an extent that I would not go back to a manual, love those as well but I have become familiar with the ease and comfort these boxes offer on almost every condition. However this is not without complaints. I drive 90% on manual mode and I still get :censored: off when I have to slow down for a speed bump and it will just go ahead and stick 1st gear un-necessarily, when it could/should have kept 2nd. I also don't like how sometimes I can't shift early If I like, no, the box wants me to rev at least up to 2K before granting me the right of up-shifting. Auto-shifting up near the limiter (when I just would have kept at those high revs without exceeding them for that little more before braking) is also annoying but with merely 2-3 track days per year I can leave with it.

I don't know if the DSG6 behaves any similar to what I just described so that's one thing to find out.

Then there's the failure and repair cost when out of warranty and that is a concern if you plan to keep the car some years after the warranty is over. What's the DSG6 record so far? Is it common to have failures? What kind of and at what mileage? Last but not least, what's the torque limit the DSG6 can handle? I plan to at least throw a stage 1 map on so would be good to know there's some margin to play with.

On the other hand, have people had issues with the manual box the Cupra comes with and if so what kind of?

Looking forward to your replies.
 
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P0LKR

Full Member
Nov 13, 2005
929
2
Newton Mortgage, Glasgow
I have the Cupra DSG and love the car to bits. In 90% of my driving I know I have made the correct choice. however when I want to really enjoy the performance i would like to have had the manual. Nothing beats a manual gearbox for spirited driving but if you are doing a commute every day the DSG is the winner.

My car is standard but Im not sure if I would want to remap a car with DSG. Too much to go wrong.
 

alper

Active Member
Feb 28, 2016
108
7
Well I actually think the whole "manual or you don't feel it" argument is more psychological. If anything, my DSG shifts quicker than I could ever shift using a stick, and in addition, the fact that I keep both cars firmly on the wheel all the time allows me to gain a few extra tenths per lap which I would normally lose by micro-corrections on gripping of the wheel. Not to mention situations when you're against cars of similar or more horsepower and they seem to be lacking in acceleration simply because the can't shift as efficiently.Of course, as you say, on a spirited drive when you're not up against anyone and times don't matter the feeling of shifting gears manually is great but then it's more of a luxury, rather than an technically better alternative over a modern semi-automatic.

Does your DSG6 behave any similar to mine on the conditions I described above? (switching to 1st, blocking upshift before 2k etc.)

Regarding mapping, if it's anything like the DSG7 than can well handle almost 40% more torque than the theoretically max allowed value of 25Nm it should be fine with a simple stage 1.
 
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Wings988

Active Member
Oct 27, 2011
509
59
Derbyshire
The Nurburgring lap records were both set using manual gearboxes, it's the only choice for enthusiasts and clearly why did a race driver choose manual for the lap record if it's slower?

For most road driving and commutes I reckon dsg is easier but then if you choose easy then are you actually an enthusiast or just want to be? It doesn't matter, everyone has there own reasons and imo the best choice is your own not other people's. Try both and decide and be glad that you have the choice.
 

Alex_280

Active Member
Dec 31, 2015
42
1
Weighing in on the DSG side here, I love the lightning fast changes and downshiftblips (yeah you can easily do it in a manual but this is consistent, great downshifts everytime). Also love the parps between upshifts. When you're not in 100% hard ******* attack mode, it's also great, especially in traffic.

Also it's much lighter due to the lack of third pedal...this may be a lie.
 
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alper

Active Member
Feb 28, 2016
108
7
The Nurburgring lap records were both set using manual gearboxes, it's the only choice for enthusiasts and clearly why did a race driver choose manual for the lap record if it's slower?

For most road driving and commutes I reckon dsg is easier but then if you choose easy then are you actually an enthusiast or just want to be? It doesn't matter, everyone has there own reasons and imo the best choice is your own not other people's. Try both and decide and be glad that you have the choice.

Well maybe, given the fact he's a professional race driver he can be almost as fast with a manual if he can "control" the changes better? Doesn't really deny the fact that the DSG will shift faster than any human and that for most non racing professionals out there it will still be the quickest choice. Even If I like to consider myself an enthusiast I can't go as far as claiming I've mastered a manual gearbox to the extent that real professionals have done. Every DSG car is by (gearbox) design faster than its manual equivalent on a straight line and I can only imagine this deficit can be reduced on a track because of better planned downshifts when you have to drop down many gears at once.

Anyway I was not into a which is faster debate :) I am just asking for known issues with either box, if any, that can affect my decision. I also wanted to know if the DSG7 habbits I described are present on the DSG6 as well.
 

P0LKR

Full Member
Nov 13, 2005
929
2
Newton Mortgage, Glasgow
Well maybe, given the fact he's a professional race driver he can be almost as fast with a manual if he can "control" the changes better? Doesn't really deny the fact that the DSG will shift faster than any human and that for most non racing professionals out there it will still be the quickest choice. Even If I like to consider myself an enthusiast I can't go as far as claiming I've mastered a manual gearbox to the extent that real professionals have done. Every DSG car is by (gearbox) design faster than its manual equivalent on a straight line and I can only imagine this deficit can be reduced on a track because of better planned downshifts when you have to drop down many gears at once.

Anyway I was not into a which is faster debate :) I am just asking for known issues with either box, if any, that can affect my decision. I also wanted to know if the DSG7 habbits I described are present on the DSG6 as well.

The DSG6 has the same quirks I am afraid.
 

Boj27

Active Member
Dec 15, 2015
122
0
London
I know that remappers offer remaps for the DQ250 gearboxes (6 speed) as the plates are submerged in fluid to dissipate the heat produced whereas the 7 speed dry clutch is not. Obviously manufacturers had a higher level of performance in mind when developing these boxes, and from what I've read they can take a lot more torque than the 7 speed dry clutch. I used to own a Polo GTI with a 7 speed dry clutch, I had a stage 1 remap on the car which developed a clutch error which showed up with vagcom as "clutch plate tolerance limit reached". The gearbox would not change when needed and would get stuck in forth gear until put into manual mode and then taken back out of manual mode.

If you have more money than brains, the mk6 golf which uses the manual and 6 speed dsg as options has options to remap to stage 4+; I'm pretty sure once you get to above stage 2, the recommendation is that any manual cars require a high performance clutch upgrade whereas the DSG is good for at least 500bhp+.

I now have the DSG Cupra 280 and plan on remapping to stage 1 soon pushing it from 280lbft/PS to 380LBFT/PS. A lot of golf R's friends own are solid on stage one after thousands of miles.

Overall the 6 speed is a much stronger unit, it is personal preference whether you'd like the ease of an auto in rush hour traffic or if the pro's of an involving drive outweighs that with a manual for yourself :)
 

alper

Active Member
Feb 28, 2016
108
7
I know that remappers offer remaps for the DQ250 gearboxes (6 speed) as the plates are submerged in fluid to dissipate the heat produced whereas the 7 speed dry clutch is not. Obviously manufacturers had a higher level of performance in mind when developing these boxes, and from what I've read they can take a lot more torque than the 7 speed dry clutch. I used to own a Polo GTI with a 7 speed dry clutch, I had a stage 1 remap on the car which developed a clutch error which showed up with vagcom as "clutch plate tolerance limit reached". The gearbox would not change when needed and would get stuck in forth gear until put into manual mode and then taken back out of manual mode.

If you have more money than brains, the mk6 golf which uses the manual and 6 speed dsg as options has options to remap to stage 4+; I'm pretty sure once you get to above stage 2, the recommendation is that any manual cars require a high performance clutch upgrade whereas the DSG is good for at least 500bhp+.

I now have the DSG Cupra 280 and plan on remapping to stage 1 soon pushing it from 280lbft/PS to 380LBFT/PS. A lot of golf R's friends own are solid on stage one after thousands of miles.

Overall the 6 speed is a much stronger unit, it is personal preference whether you'd like the ease of an auto in rush hour traffic or if the pro's of an involving drive outweighs that with a manual for yourself :)

Absolutely agree that they are stronger units than the DSG7 DQ200 dry clutch ones with hopefully enough torque reserves for up to stage 2 which is already above what I'm willing to go on my next car. I'll google the max torque value on paper out if interest. So they have in general been trouble-free so far? DSG7 for example, although not that common had mechatronic or clutch pack failing in certain cases.

Strange what you say about your Polo GTI though. I've spent a lot of time (and some money with it) on the 1.4 TSI / DSG7 combo and they can generally take up to stage 2 / 350Nm (max theoretical is 250Nm) no problem. Mine runs 330Nm for a year and half now without slippage or any other issues whatsoever.
 
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JACUPRA280

Active Member
Jun 18, 2015
932
55
Somewhere
To reply to a previous comment by Wings988, the DSG-equipped Cupra set the record at the Nürburgring Nordschleife - not the manual. Here's the link to my source:

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/industry-news/seat/seat-leon-cupra-280-breaks-nrburgring-lap-record-2014/ it clearly says there "A paddleshift DSG-equipped three-door example has lapped the 12-mile lap in 7min 58.44sec – smashing the previous record of 8min 7.97sec, held by the Renaultsport Megane Trophy."

Oh, and here's another source: https://recombu.com/cars/article/seat-leon-cupra-280-breaks-nurburgring-front-wheel-drive-record

And another one: http://www.motors.co.uk/news/general/seat-leon-cupra-breaks-nurburgring-lap-record

So I don't understand why you think a manual Cupra set the record when it was a DSG Cupra that did?

That aside, I have a Cupra 280 DSG. I wouldn't have one with a manual gearbox. I prefer the DSG all round and balls out, it's faster than the manual too.
 
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alper

Active Member
Feb 28, 2016
108
7
EVO say it was the DSG as well> "SEAT Leon ST Cupra 280 is the Nurburgring’s fastest estate"
can't post the link but shows up easily. Which I guess is normal as it just is quicker, not much to debate over this really.
 

SiR26

Active Member
Mar 21, 2015
96
3
Manchester
If your a driving purist and like to be in total control of the car then manual. If Your more concerned with shaving a few tenths off the 0-60 time then DSG.

Personally I thought the DSG was more automatic than manual , had it been the other way round I would have moved with the times and gotten a DSG . When going for a spirited drive then nothing beats a manual IMO even if I can't seem to get the car to 60 anywhere near the claimed 5.8s with it!
 

2Stevo2

Active Member
Oct 20, 2015
170
16
North Lanarkshire, Scotland
I have had the pleasure of driving both fairly recently and truely believe that DSG is the way to go. I made a mistake of buying a manual FR150 and then having a shot of a similar car with DSG.

I will regret that for a few years till i get a chance to change it. Go for DSG 100%
 

Alex_280

Active Member
Dec 31, 2015
42
1
If your a driving purist and like to be in total control of the car then manual. If Your more concerned with shaving a few tenths off the 0-60 time then DSG.

Personally I thought the DSG was more automatic than manual , had it been the other way round I would have moved with the times and gotten a DSG . When going for a spirited drive then nothing beats a manual IMO even if I can't seem to get the car to 60 anywhere near the claimed 5.8s with it!

Driving purist is a dangerous phrase, you've got power steering, ABS and options wise the car may even brake for you. Purist motoring isn't really found in many of the (potentially) 5 door commuter/family cars of the past 15 years.

Even the 1.0 VAG engines come with DSG, in heavy traffic/ urban roads between traffic lights, the DSG is a godsend, it's not just for the sprint.
 

Petterii

Active Member
Feb 19, 2016
29
0
I have manual Cupra and love it. Torque band is so wide that i only need to use 4 gears really. 1-->2->4->6 if driving in normal traffic. Gear box is so smooth and you can´t beat heel toeing when driving with some authority.

Mind you that traffic isn´t that bad here in Finlad so your not stading in traffic that much.
 

ESS

Active Member
Jan 11, 2016
194
1
I came from a manual focus RS to a cupra ST estate with DSG and i havent looked back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

kiddo

ST Cupra
May 30, 2015
1,151
99
Lancashire
I've driven manuals all my life and always hated slush boxes. I'm on my first ever dsg and it's an absolute cracker. I've not missed a manual but am not a track day or driving God just a regular driver on Britain's congested roads who enjoys a good turn of speed when I can. I'd say drive both manual and dsg how you would drive in the real world and see which fits best. There are software maps available for dsg to alter the characteristics of the dsg. Drive mode can change up a little too early and sport mode holds onto gears too long. manual mode is great when pressing on and wanting total control and is a manual box without the clutch.
 
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