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Cupra r 225 or fr tdi 150???

Discussion in 'Leon Mk1 (2000-2006)' started by LiamMoore, Jun 1, 2012.

  1. LiamMoore

    LiamMoore Guest

    Hello all, this Is my first post so I hope this is the right place:) I'm looking at either getting a Cupra r 225 or an fr 150. I do around 80-150 miles a week. What do you guys think?:) and also is the difference in performance between the 2 that much?

    Thanks
     
  2. x24sevenbikerx

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    id say the LCR 225 , i do about 200 miles a week , and dosnt hurt the bank too much and id never have a desiel unless i had some monster weekend car (which is unlikly) :p
     
  3. putridmocha

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    Yes quite a big difference standard but with a few mods not a lot of difference.
    Running costs are a lot lower though and worth doing if you are keeping it for a few years. Bear in mind looks like there's a bonfire in the rear view when u boot it!
     
  4. hyphon12

    hyphon12 Daft Member

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    LCR 225. I do about 200mi a week and still get a decent MPG when I don't give it a bit of beans :p plus it won't sound like a tractor. :D
     
  5. LiamMoore

    LiamMoore Guest

    Thanks forthw replies! I'm swaying towards the LRC 225 to be honest. If I remapped the 225 which other parts would I need to change if any? The only thing keeping me interested in the fr is the mpg and the torque? Is there much difference in terms of torque with the 225 being turbo charged?
     
  6. hyphon12

    hyphon12 Daft Member

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    You can get a stage 1 map and have the car standard. Some people even map them just to get a better MPG. Torque wise it is less as expected but as soon as you hit boost it pulls effortlessly.
     
  7. aaronipswich

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    I average 34mpg as I take my gf to work and most of that is dual carridge way
    It's all depends what ur after u can map the fr to give u good power but still retain good mpg
    If u have a heavy right foot I say fr if not and can afford the fuel go for the lcr
     
  8. Muttley

    Muttley Catch that diesel!

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    The LCR is the choice if you want maximum power, top speed and best handling from standard. And, of course, if you are put off by the sound of the diesel engine at tickover (once you get moving, the sounds aren't all that different).

    Power and torque: well, I won't go into my long rant about how they are two sides of the same coin, but I'll note that the TDI 150 has more torque than the LCR at 2000 rpm, where you are likely to be in town traffic, and in fact matches or exceeds the LCR up to 4000 rpm. So your performance off the line is going to be better in the TDI (I've never been disappointed).

    At 4000 rpm, the TDI power curve turns downwards and you have to shift up. The LCR will carry on to 6000 rpm, making more power as it speeds up and keeping the torque figure high all the way (one advantage of forced induction).

    So the LCR will develop more power, provided you are happy to make a lot of high-revving engine noise: I don't think you'll find this a problem, although it does turn heads, not all of whom approve.

    The TDI gearbox has taller gears than the LCR, due to the restricted rev range of the diesel, which means that over any reasonable distance the LCR will win out in pure drag-race terms.

    Handling is better in the LCR as it has specially engineered suspension that is unique to the car. The TDI 150 has the Sport suspension package which is lower and firmer than the standard Comfort package. Still, weight will tell against the diesel as well as the less-exotic suspension.

    Around town, on urban roads and in slow-speed commuting, the low-end torque of the diesel is a great advantage. On motorways it cruises effortlessly at the limit and I'm never at a loss for power to complete overtaking manoeuvres quickly and safely.

    The diesel will also cost less to run: better mpg, lower tax and insurance. I get 40mpg around town and 50-55 on long steady runs.

    To be honest, if you're tempted by the LCR, you should go for it now and review things after a year or so. If you're hit too hard by the running costs, trade it in: but at least you'll know what it is you're missing. I used to run a Golf GTI Mk.1, and although it doesn't have the same power as an LCR, it's incredibly light (830kg) and the power-to-weight is fantastic. The original silly-grin hot hatch.

    I like my Toledo TDI 150 Sport (the FR in Toledo form). It has the advantage of looking almost exactly the same as any other Toledo (you need eagle eyes to spot that the little TDI letters are all red) and attracts no attention on the road, but will deliver a silly grin to the face when asked :)
     
    #8 Muttley, Jun 1, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
  9. chichee

    chichee Active Member

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    I completely agree!

    Having owned a Nissan 200SX (S14a), the power delivery is sustained for longer, which, for some people, is what they are after. However, with the diesel, you really can maximise the torque/power and use it effortlessly for in-town and longer drives.
     
  10. LiamMoore

    LiamMoore Guest

    Thanks for all the info! What type of gains should I expect from a stage 1 on both cars? And are both cars reliable? Any common faults with either?
     
  11. Double-6s

    Double-6s Active Member

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    I have a breathed-on LCR and not once have I wanted for more torque! lol

    The thing is absolutely bursting with the stuff!

    Basically there is one advantage to the smelly smokey thing - money. If your wallet is the most important thing, go for the diesel. If the driving experience is most important to you, go for the LCR.

    Personally, I think they are worlds apart and not really comparible. Different tools for different purposes.

    Get the LCR :)







    (unless you're tight ;) )
     
  12. BenG

    BenG Ben

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    Have to say I've not been that impressed with my FR TDI, despite a remap to 175hp/300lb ft. (rolling road showed car was making the power) and the additon of a free flow stainless exhaust.:shrug:

    It feels pretty sluggish below 2000rpm and is quite laggy generally, a noisy at low speeds. Works best as a motorway cruiser where the turbo can be kept on boost and pulls well, but not much use in 'point and squirt' situations such as B-roads where a hot hatch is supposed to excel.:(

    Bear in mind also that I owned a succession of pretty dull cars previously (Fiat Uno 1.1, Rover 214, Mazda 323F, Ford Focus TDCI) and I think that reflects badly on the Leon, so I'd be inclined to point you in the direction of the Cupra, asuming you can afford the extra fuel/VED/insurance, even though I've not driven one(!)...
     
  13. Muttley

    Muttley Catch that diesel!

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    Gains from mapping will be comparable on both engines - for actual figures, you'd best look at some of the tuner's sites, or search the readers rides in this forum.

    The Leon/Toledo is based on the Mk.4 Golf and is very reliable in general. Of course, it suffers from the faults common to that platform.

    Door card seals are the most annoying: rain leaks into the car through the inner side of the door card at the bottom, and fills up the wells in the floorpan. Drivers door is usually the first (gets opened and closed more) but the squelch is often first felt in the drivers side rear seat - the water runs down the floorpan.

    The pollen filter cover is hard to get on properly, but leaks rainwater into the passenger footwell if not done correctly.

    Water pumps can fail, the plastic impeller breaks up and stops circulating the coolant. Replace with metal-bladed pump (or some say the new improved plastic part from VW) when first changing the cambelt. LCR's seem to suffer from this more than others.

    Radiator fans can fail to come on at the lower of their two speeds, resulting in higher temperatures in the engine and eventual fan failure. Again LCR's seem to be more prone to this than other models in the range. Test by starting the engine with the aircon off; no fans should spin. Now put the aircon on, so the compressor is engaged: both fans should spin at their lower speed (which is still pretty fast). If the fans eventually come on at high speed (very noisy) spin for a short time then go off again, the low speed has failed. Replacement fans are up to £300 the pair although there are cheaper fixes.

    The PD diesel engines are particular about the oil they are given, and must have a full service history showing names of Seat/VAG dealers or independent specialists. Using the wrong oil will result in exhaust cam and follower failure. Tell-tale is a tappety noise at start-up, especially when cold.

    None of these faults is widespread, with the door seal problem being the most common. Engine failures are very rare: They seem common when reading a site like this because only the failures get reported, the vast majority of us who've had fault-free motoring don't write in and say so.

    Let's put it this way. I had a TDI 110 Toledo until last November, when a white-van-man turned across in front of me without looking. I replaced it with another diesel Toledo.
     
    #13 Muttley, Jun 1, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
  14. BenG

    BenG Ben

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    Why didn't they make the Leon with the funky-sounding V5 motor? Could have been more interesting than a diesel to me!

    If this thread is turning into a buying guide, then so far my 54 plate FR TDI has had the following faults:

    i) AC fans low-speed mode failed - two new fans cost £440! Check they're working OK!
    ii) Front lower wishbone suspension bushes were cracking up
    iii) Paint on alloys is bubbling behind the spokes - will need doing this year
    iv) Alternator pulley failed (has a one-way clutch in it - failure causes a noisy chattering under the bonnet as the drive belt flaps about).
    v) AC no longer chills.
    vi) Rear window washer not working. Reconnected a detached pipe joint but still not spraying properly.
    vii) Very loud turbo whistling - thought it was a boost leak but car made 150hp so apparently normal(?)
    viii) Light in bottom of driver's door on the blink - probably chafed wiring.
    ix) Plants growing in acccumulated muck behind front wheels (wheelarch liners) - not a fault but worth checking and cleaning out / waxoyling to avoid rust in the arches!

    HTH.

    Ben
     
  15. BenG

    BenG Ben

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    Oh aye, don't buy a yellow Leon - my paint's unnevenly faded and looks cr@p. Yellow cars are known for it!
     
  16. MrBen2k7

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    I thoroughly enjoy my 150 FR, its a sad shame I have to sell it though.

    Going into hospital for a wrist reconstruction (Rugby Injury) and will be in a cast for 3 months, so that and I need the funds for a house will be one very reluctant sale.

    Its an excellent compromise of power/economy. It'll averge 45 MPG but will still put a smile on your face when you plant it. 0-60 in 8.9 seconds I think Parkers has it clocked at.
     
  17. JamesL

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    Have you checked for fault codes and logged anything? 175bhp with an exhaust is pants, sorry dude. If I were to get mine remapped I'd be looking for 190, give or take.

    Also, as you have rightly pointed out, keep it on boost and you will be laughing on the twisties. Much more fun than a NA engine as you can just stick it in the right rev range and boot it about all over the shop.

    It is a shame the V5 is only in the tolly.

    v) Snap - booked in for a regas tomorrow, touch wood this will resolve this.
    vi) Basically happens to every Leon out there
    vii) The PD 150's seem to just have noisy turbos. Concerned me as well at first, but doesn't appear to be much to worry about?

    I have a 150pd, and I do enjoy it. Its not the quickest, but day to day will surprise a lot of cars out there. I do a fair amount of miles, so it makes sense to have a derv - most of the time I'm driving in traffic anyway, so I don't get chance to use it properly. Those occasions when it isn't in traffic and it will let me have a good laugh and put a smile on my face.

    Having said that, if it wasn't for the fact I've got a new car on the way, I'd be remapping it. Only issue then is how long the clutch lasts.
     
  18. billyhas

    billyhas Full Member

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    Have to agree, worlds apart. Totally different cars so no way to really compare one with the other.
    Test drive both and you will see for yourself
     
  19. LiamMoore

    LiamMoore Guest

    Thanks so much for all your opinion and info:) I'm still kinda swaying to the LCR. I think i will have to test drive the 2 and make my mind up.
     
  20. Raks

    Raks Active Member

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    Agree with the boys, very difficult to compare the cars really.

    LCR all the way still but make sure its a minter!!
     

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