Cupra r 225 or fr tdi 150???

[Double-6s]

fair enough, they are indeed slightly different (but different nonetheless) statements. but the 3.0 V6 TDI can sound good, and for a petrol I don't think the 1.8T sounds particularly good/nice anyway.

more comfortable on the motorway is better on the motorway though

if you're going to keep on with this tight thing, why do you drive a SEAT which is the cheapest of all the VAG brands? because you're tight?

if the choice was absolutely nailed down to a PD150 Cupra/FR or an LCR, out of the two and given the OP's circumstances I would have the LCR

Not sure you could call me tight to be fair mate. For 18 months before I bought the lcr I was doing up to 1000 miles a week in an auto V8 5 series BMW, and they aren't fuel efficient believe me! And I pay for fuel myself.

My choice of the lcr to replace it was nothing to do with running costs whatsoever. I was utterly sick of driving around in a (admittedly very nice!) massive car, and was sick of listening to the auto box on kick-down. I wanted something faster, smaller, lighter and way more chuckable.

Don't really want a vw or skoda etc. don't like golfs any more. Don't like skodas at all if I'm honest.

For me the price or status of a car has nothing to do with the enjoyment I get from it. I have way more fun in my budget lcr than I did in the big posh Beemer.

I'll give you the Audi v6 diesel one though although I'd rather listen to an Alfa v6! Can't beat the Busso v6 for aural pleasure. In fact I think my next car may well have to be a 156 gta 3.2 (again). What a car.

( and to be honest I don't think the lcr 4 cylinder sounds great - I prefer 6 or 8 cylinders)

 

[JamesL]

.

Come on people get serious. There really is only one reason isn't there: MONEY

If someone else was paying for your fuel, would you still choose the diesel? You can answer in private so that nobody else knows that secretly you'd choose the LCR

By the way, your reasons for choosing an LCR above, are just plain stupid. I haven't mentioned any of those points. Traffic light grand prix etc? No. My reason for chooisng an LCR over a diesel leon is as follows: it's a better car unless money is the main consideration.

Not true at all. For all intents and purposes, I don't pay for my own fuel. Yet I picked the the diesel. The driving I do makes no sense to have the petrol - it would hardly ever be used to its proper potential, and the ease of using the diesel in busy traffic is a pro to me. Money didn't come into it.

The diesel will make more "lower down" the rev range.

Of course, "lower down" is relative. The useful rev range of the diesel is approx 2000 revs (2k to 4k) maybe starting a bit lower than 2000. The useful rev range of the LCR is twice that, from 2000 to 6000.

Generally the diesel will have a flatter, fatter torque curve, but runs out of puff ridiculously early.

Make up your own mind mate.

I suspect there won't be many LCR owners telling you to choose the diesel.

All my comments obviously EXCLUDE fuel costs as that's my entire point. If money is out of the equation you'd choose the LCR.

Money was out of the question. I didn't choose an LCR. Uh oh!

It doesn't run out of puff 'ridiculously' early either. It runs out of puff earlier than a petrol, yeah. But a petrol isn't the be all and end all of driving, at least not to me anyway. As you have quite rightly said, it's all relative - and relative to way a diesel works, it doesn't run out of puff early at all.

Mine wasn't. My TDi Ibiza was horrible on the motorway. Harsh suspension (standard dampers and springs) and a horrible lateral jiggly movement that isn't present in leons. And anyway, the comparison is between an FR TDi 150 and an LCR - both leons.

Excellent. You have just compared your Ibiza to a Leon, then told us that it's not a fair comparison at all. Cheers for that. So writing off the 150pd vs the LCR on the motorway on the basis that your Ibiza was crap on the motorway is really helpful. Why write that comment at all?! I don't understand what that is going to achieve.

Also, yes the TDi has softer suspension and so is more COMFORTABLE. I'm not convinced that means it's a better drive. It means it's more comfortable. If you're considering an LCR, it's unlikely that comfort is your priority.

I didn't quite say that petrol universally sounds better than diesel actually. I said its universally accepted that petrol sounds better than diesel. Subtlely different statements. I'd say I speak the truth though. Who actually likes the sound of a clattery old tractor? Honestly. Show me a single person who thinks an FR TDi sounds better than an LCR (who doesn't already own a diesel because they're tight).

Again, it's all relative. The diesel is more comfortable. That makes it a better drive TO ME. It all depends on the way you drive and the the of driving you do doesn't it.

I actually quite like the sound of the diesel, particularly when it's running through the revs. Yes I already own a diesel - but not because I'm tight.

Muttley who's taken the jam out of your doughnut pal? Keep your shirt on.

I'd say you're clearly showing more blind predjudice towards diesel than I am toward petrol.

My little corner of the world? lol. Rather presumptious of you that is. You don't know a thing about me. I'm 41, well educated (eventually), decent job and have travelled all over the world paid for with my own hard work. I'd say I have a fairly good world view on life. Not what you clearly imagine.

No I'm not aping JC or anyone else. I have my own mind thanks very much.

Slinging ****? Nope, just pointing out that I believe the almost exclusive reason for choosing a diesel is fiscal. Do you know that word? In "your little corner of the world".

Golf GTi? I've owned several. Various Mk's and engines. And corrados. And very many other cars in my 24 years of driving. Again, you presume to know me, and know my knowledge of cars. You know nothing about me.

Irony? I'm aware of the meaning of the word, and many 1000s of others. You look it up.

Politeness. YOU are the one slinging almost personal comments around fella, not me. My points are all valid and are perfectly reasonable when answering the question of wether to choose a TDi or an LCR. By the way, my "tight" comments were made in jest. If you choose to interpret them any other way, the issue is with you not me.

Get over yourself fella. If you can't take a bit of anti-diesel banter then again, that's your issue. I'm not making points that I don't believe for the sake of being antagonistic. I happen to believe in what I'm saying, and adding a bit of anti-diesel banter doesn't really harm anyone except you apparently.

The original poster certainly doesn't seem offended by my impolite ways

I have to say I agree with Muttley completely. You have come across as rude, aggressive, and most of all, unable to accept anybody's viewpoint which isn't aligned with your own. Frankly, I couldn't careless whether you are 41, the next Einstein, and had a car ownership history as colourful as a kids attempt at drawing the rainbow. Having a decent job, travelling, paying your own way and being able to write words like 'fiscal' do not make your opinion more important than other peoples. Being an old man and a clever cloggs to boot doesn't give you the right to post like that, or think that it's acceptable. Thats nothing personal - you are right, i dont know you at all, thats just based on what you have told me is justification for saying that things you have said.

I think you need to consider the fact that just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesnt make them wrong. If you can't get over that, then that really is your issue. It doesnt give you the right to dismiss their comments, or ignore their view. Oh, and by the way - YOU think that all YOUR comments are justified and reasonable. Did you ever stop to think that Muttley may think that all HIS points may be justified and reasonable as well? It doesn't read that way to me mate.

To the OP: I equally think that given the circumstances, a diesel is pointless for you. But I would suggest you test drive one anyway, just to confirm it for yourself.

 

[Double-6s]

I don't have to justify a thing I've said fella. I've come across as aggressive? Will you be ok? Can you cope with the nasty aggressive man? Grow a pair dude. Seriously.

Blah blah, you are the exception and all that. Great. Glad that you chose the diesel. Says it all really.

My opinion is just as valid as yours and as your diesel loving friends. It's lucky it's a free world and we can all express our opinions eh? Lol

As for the right to dismiss other peoples comments?! Are you kidding?! I'll dismiss whatever I like. That's life and is the same for everyone. The OP can dismiss my comments as well! Blimey there's a thought! Lol

And yes I'm sure mutely does think all his points are valid. He'd be a bit of a tit if he was arguing something he didn't believe in wouldn't he. It's called having an opinion.

If you don't like my opinion that's fine with me. I don't need your approval thanks

 

[Double-6s]

Got a diesel have you? Lol

Poke it pal.

 

[Double-6s]

My opinion still stands.

The diesel is shite. Get the LCR.

You can bitch all you want about it but it's still my opinion and nothing is gonna change that.

Other people have a different opinion. I'll live

 

[LiamMoore]

Well I'm paying 230 a year in tax on may car ATM so the extra costs of tax and insurance don't really bother me too much. My think is I'm young with no commitments so why not get a fast car while I can afford it, and get a cheaper to run diesel when I get a mortgage ect..

 

[CupraCraig225]

Well I'm paying 230 a year in tax on may car ATM so the extra costs of tax and insurance don't really bother me too much. My think is I'm young with no commitments so why not get a fast car while I can afford it, and get a cheaper to run diesel when I get a mortgage ect..

Mate that was my thinking exactly. I do less than 100 miles a week, was already paying £230 for tax and also have no mortgage yet so the LCR was the better option for me. I'm a farmer so I spend most of my time in trucks or tractors lol. Having something that revs is a nice break. BUT if I had to do a long commute everyday then I'd have picked a diesel to be fair. Not because of money but because imho its a easier car to drive in traffic and on the motorway. More civil for the long journey dare I say!?

For me (and for you by the sounds of it) the LCR would be the better option IMO.

 

[1ns4ne1d10t]

My opinion still stands.

The diesel is shite. Get the LCR.

You can bitch all you want about it but it's still my opinion and nothing is gonna change that.

Other people have a different opinion. I'll live

And whats so 'good' about petrol then? Please enlighten me about the LCR and other turbo petrols because the last two Renault Megane Cups (265ps) I drove were next to useless. Impressive 0-60's and all but where was the real driving fun? The "fun" in a petrol engine is nothing but a big commercial gimmick for empty heads with lots of top end noise, exhaust popping, dump valve kattishhhing and if I'm honest I found it to be all the things that excite chavs and no brainers. Kind of reminds me of the whole gimmick sport button thing on Astra H's really. In terms of performance I might aswell have got out and walked if I wanted to overtake a tractor or a bus. Where I am used to my TDI kicking me and my passengers right in the arse and lifting off to overtake the turbo petrols need to be rammed right down in the gearbox to do that because they are so lazy to deliver and you need to wait about an age to get that same 'kick in the back' feel. In any case I'd love to see how 'Fast' a Cupra R suddenly becomes when its A: got four people in it B: going up a hill C: Towing a Jetski. I just couldn't live with the inferior torque delivery even if the revs are short, the top end is less and the 0-60 is slower on top of all the extra keeping costs and you can still get a TDI to run Cupra R 0-60 times just have a look on youtube!!! I am not judging you the way you post but my neibour had a 200hp Ibiza Cupra PD 160 and it was everything a Cupra R 225 or a 20VT Ibiza would never be. When a petrol flies past at 6,000 revs it doesn't make me turn my head to look at it anymore than a diesel sounding like a van at 4,000 revs its just another 4cyl engine noise *Yawn*

For arguement sake you might be able to find ways of running a 20VT on £25 unleaded a week but thats not going to make it as good as a 1.2 litre shopping runabout you are still paying out £240 a year on the tax compared to £130 a year on a TDI not to mention the bigger cost of the tyres on an LCR, More expensive brakes, and everything else that goes with it...

 

[Snoopcousins]

And whats so 'good' about petrol then? Please enlighten me about the LCR and other turbo petrols because the last two Renault Megane Cups (265ps) I drove were next to useless. Impressive 0-60's and all but where was the real driving fun? The "fun" in a petrol engine is nothing but a big commercial gimmick for empty heads with lots of top end noise, exhaust popping, dump valve kattishhhing and if I'm honest I found it to be all the things that excite chavs and no brainers. Kind of reminds me of the whole gimmick sport button thing on Astra H's really. In terms of performance I might aswell have got out and walked if I wanted to overtake a tractor or a bus. Where I am used to my TDI kicking me and my passengers right in the arse and lifting off to overtake the turbo petrols need to be rammed right down in the gearbox to do that because they are so lazy to deliver and you need to wait about an age to get that same 'kick in the back' feel. In any case I'd love to see how 'Fast' a Cupra R suddenly becomes when its A: got four people in it B: going up a hill C: Towing a Jetski. I just couldn't live with the inferior torque delivery even if the revs are short, the top end is less and the 0-60 is slower on top of all the extra keeping costs and you can still get a TDI to run Cupra R 0-60 times just have a look on youtube!!! I am not judging you the way you post but my neibour had a 200hp Ibiza Cupra PD 160 and it was everything a Cupra R 225 or a 20VT Ibiza would never be. When a petrol flies past at 6,000 revs it doesn't make me turn my head to look at it anymore than a diesel sounding like a van at 4,000 revs its just another 4cyl engine noise *Yawn*

For arguement sake you might be able to find ways of running a 20VT on £25 unleaded a week but thats not going to make it as good as a 1.2 litre shopping runabout you are still paying out £240 a year on the tax compared to £130 a year on a TDI not to mention the bigger cost of the tyres on an LCR, More expensive brakes, and everything else that goes with it...

Your point is ALL about torque..as is most people's when bigging up the diesel.
I had a remapped FR TDI for 5 years, I loved it, and with the remap it "drove more like a petrol" which is what i told people. It revved with more power for slightly longer, maybe 4.8k revs BUT it does NOT compare to a LCR.

A LCR has AMPLE torque at low revs for tootling around town, why do you NEED a "kick in the ass" when driving around at 25mph?? That contradicts your main argument..

A remapped petrol has more torque than the diesel for more of the rev range...basically i think a Remap is a MUST on a LCR as it transforms it.

And IMHO I love driving the LCR a lot more than my TDI and I loved it too.

 

[Merv]

Lol, love this thread!
I haven't driven a diesel Leon so can't comment on that, but I do have an LCR and I love it.
My wife drives it and she loves it too. I've got a mortgage and a baby but don't do loads of miles so that helps me be able to afford it, and I don't mind paying the extra costs for something I really enjoy.
Like previous posters who drive diesels for their jobs, I drive a long wheel based transit van for work which is limited to 68 mph and I do up to 1000 miles a week in that. So to be able to jump in the LCR and go for a spin is quite special.
My LCR is standard, so is pretty quite really and doesn't sound like a chav wagon!
I just wanted to Express MY opinion, and that is all. Everyone is entitled to theirs and people should make their own decisions based on their own circumstances.

 

[1ns4ne1d10t]

I have to say I agree with Muttley completely. You have come across as rude, aggressive, and most of all, unable to accept anybody's viewpoint which isn't aligned with your own. Frankly, I couldn't careless whether you are 41, the next Einstein, and had a car ownership history as colourful as a kids attempt at drawing the rainbow...

I would just ignore people like that if I were you because you won't get anything through, just stick with what you know best as you and others have made your point and there is nothing more you can say. Without being judgemental and stereotyping I fell out with a right idiot at work once who had an LCR and was middle aged, nasty and very opininated. I hate to say this but LCR's seem to be associated with the older age of bullyboy boyracers (The same ego driven sort who drive Imprezas) who are aged 30-50 and have their entire personality and ego wrapped around the car like its their baby. That said I have met some really nice guys who own LCR's and have chatted with them for ages. Most of the people I've spoken to in person or worked with havn't had a bad word to say about FR TDI's, the only negative garbage I've heard being spouted is from the keyboard massai warriors on the internet so it speaks for itself. In a world where people are bought together by performance and modifications you will find people who will be biased and egotistical just take it on the chin.

 

[traumapat]

Irony anyone?

 

[Brettyboy]

Its turned into diesel vs petrol,at the end of the day it comes down to how many miles you do & personal preference,i have had petrols all my life up til 7 yrs ago when i started doing 300+ a week,if you do high miles diesel makes perfect sense as aswell as economy they deal with high miles alot more so than petrol.If you don't do that much mileage,young & like high performance then go for the lcr but what i would say is diesels have come on along way & now give very high performance

As far as motorway miles go i prefer diesel,the day of diesels being noisy,slow & smelly have long gone

 

[Spirit Furtive]

Here is something nobody has mentioned, diesels tend to hold their value better so a low milage FR/FR+ is going to cost quite a bit more to buy than a Cupra R of the same milage.

 

[LiamMoore]

I know diesels have come along way in terms of performance and step dad has a vectra c that has been mapped and it pulls like a train. Quick car, even if I got the LCR and got it mapped then it turns out I'm doing more miles than was expected and I end up spending 60+ in fuel and all this I could sell the car a buy the fr 150, but I'm going to have too drive both. A test drive will only give me a rough idea what the car is like. I need too own them too see what they are like too live with

 

[Leon2012]

Diesels cost more to buy, but you can sell them for more too. They can be quietened down and made smoother by using Shell Power diesel.

Petrols cost a lot to run, especially LCRs, and get attention when you rev them.

Diesels can be tuned to have huge amounts of torque (let's go beyond everyone saying "Stage 1" remap, and think along the lines of a GTB2260VK turbo upgrade = 400 ft/lbs) and still return good fuel economy.

LCRs have are establishing a chav image now, as they've become very cheap lately and chavs buy them, mod them and don't declare the mods to keep the insurance down. Council estates across the land are filling up with the old LCRs that 'normal' people have sold to buy newer cars.

If you're comfortable with that image and can afford to run an LCR, then get one!

If not, then you should think about the diesel, and do some mods to it to improve the performance, like uprating the turbo and getting a good remap on it.

 

[Leon2012]

Here is something nobody has mentioned, diesels tend to hold their value better so a low milage FR/FR+ is going to cost quite a bit more to buy than a Cupra R of the same milage.

...and you can sell a diesel for more, so this point is moot.

 

[andypandypoos]

Not sure you could call me tight to be fair mate. For 18 months before I bought the lcr I was doing up to 1000 miles a week in an auto V8 5 series BMW, and they aren't fuel efficient believe me! And I pay for fuel myself.

My choice of the lcr to replace it was nothing to do with running costs whatsoever. I was utterly sick of driving around in a (admittedly very nice!) massive car, and was sick of listening to the auto box on kick-down. I wanted something faster, smaller, lighter and way more chuckable.

Don't really want a vw or skoda etc. don't like golfs any more. Don't like skodas at all if I'm honest.

For me the price or status of a car has nothing to do with the enjoyment I get from it. I have way more fun in my budget lcr than I did in the big posh Beemer.

I'll give you the Audi v6 diesel one though although I'd rather listen to an Alfa v6! Can't beat the Busso v6 for aural pleasure. In fact I think my next car may well have to be a 156 gta 3.2 (again). What a car.

( and to be honest I don't think the lcr 4 cylinder sounds great - I prefer 6 or 8 cylinders)

petrol V6 sounds better than diesel V6

my comment about being tight for buying a SEAT is basically the same as you saying people only buy a diesel because they are tight. you have your (perfectly valid) reasons for getting an LCR and not an R32 or an S3 that aren't about cost so why can't you see that people would choose a diesel for reasons other than cost?

 

[1ns4ne1d10t]

Its turned into diesel vs petrol,at the end of the day it comes down to how many miles you do & personal preference,i have had petrols all my life up til 7 yrs ago when i started doing 300+ a week,if you do high miles diesel makes perfect sense as aswell as economy they deal with high miles alot more so than petrol.If you don't do that much mileage,young & like high performance then go for the lcr but what i would say is diesels have come on along way & now give very high performance

As far as motorway miles go i prefer diesel,the day of diesels being noisy,slow & smelly have long gone

Well said. PD 150's need remaps, thats all I can say because without a remap I will agree with the petrolheads on this standard ones are as dull as hell. After I had mine remapped it transformed it into a different character it became more like a VTi then a TDi and its easy to forget that its diesel. If you test drove an LCR after test driving a fully standard PD150 of course you are going to stick two fingers up at the PD and go sod you mate you are a boring pile of scrap but a remap soon sorts that out but some of the LCR Petrolheads are making out that ALL 1.9 TDI Cupras are completely useless just because they are diesel engined, take it from me they aren't. If all my FR did was offer me economy, cheaper tax and nothing else I wouldn't have had it for four years I would have gone back to unleaded by now so it must be doing something right to keep me satisfied. Remapped TDI's are capable of delivering some half decent performance and if a 1.4 or a 1.6 litre dishwasher was to become faster and more agile then my mapped 1.9 it would be up for sale...

 

[Spirit Furtive]

...and you can sell a diesel for more, so this point is moot.

Being able to sell a car later on doesn't give you a higher initial budget.