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ECU Conversion - wiring diagrams added for someone to help me

Discussion in 'Big Turbo Discussion' started by joehirth, Jul 17, 2011.

  1. joehirth

    joehirth Rate me up baby

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    A few of you know I'm trying to change my ECU to a wideband one, did the conversion yesterday although I've come up with a few errors, wondering if anyone can shed some light:

    6 Faults Found:

    18010 - Power Supply Terminal 30: Voltage too Low

    P1602 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

    17069 - ECM Power Relay Control Circuit (J271): Open Circuit

    P0685 - 35-00 - -

    18058 - Powertrain Data Bus: Missing Message from Instrument Cluster

    P1650 - 35-00 - -

    17931 - Crash Signal from Airbag Controller: Implausible Signal

    P1523 - 35-00 - -

    16486 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70): Signal too Low

    P0102 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

    17523 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating: B1 S1: Short to Ground

    P1115 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

    The lambda fault was a fuse so I believe that's sorted.

    My main concern is the throttle pedal doesn't do anything, the car runs OK, fairly lumpy though and odd missfires.

    Any help appreciated.

    Joe

    Edit - ECU I'm using is AUM from Bora 1.8t 2002
    ECU car came with AYP 2001
     
    #1 joehirth, Jul 17, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2011
  2. joehirth

    joehirth Rate me up baby

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    I think I may of found the problem with my throttle, if anyone is any good at reading wiring diagrams then please churp up and say this is what I've found;

    AYP wiring:

    [​IMG]

    and key

    [​IMG]

    AUM wiring:

    [​IMG]

    Key:

    [​IMG]

    From what I've worked out only Pin#2 on both diagrams (G79) lead to ECU (J220) Pin# T121/73

    Anyone able to tell me which way I should rewire the connector?
     
    #2 joehirth, Jul 17, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2011
  3. joehirth

    joehirth Rate me up baby

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    More food for thought here then, I think the actual throttle bodies are different between the AYP and the AUM. The wiring looks to be correct for the TPS so I'm going to revert everything back to original there.

    Here's some more diagrams, I think the wiring is different for the throttle bodies...?

    AYP Throttle body

    [​IMG]

    and key

    [​IMG]

    AUM throttle body

    [​IMG]

    and key

    [​IMG]


    On a side note - here's the narrowband - wideband wiring I've done so far.

    AYP narrowband set up

    [​IMG]

    For reference AUM wideband pin out

    [​IMG]
     
  4. ibizacupra

    ibizacupra Jack-RIP my little Friend
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    just a comparison done between these as functional from schematic AUM vs your AYP
    Picture is your AUM one.. added text is the AYP
    check it yourself to make sure I have'nt cocked up tho.. lol

    [​IMG]

    In wiring pin terms: AYP >moves to>AUM
    AYP>AUM
    83>118
    84>117
    117>91
    118>84
    91>83
    92<>92

    Whats a little confusing is the pin out designation on the throttlebody plug, as they are clearly very different, but all 1.8t dbw bodies swap between cars without any problems.. which does'nt seem right given the apparent pin out differences in the two wiring diagrams. :confused:
    :think:

    Motor windings should sit on dbw pins 3+ and 5- according to the wiring info I have here.
    There is a difference in the pot outputs on what I have here vs the AUM diagram tho..
    base of pots is 6
    top of pots is 2

    :shrug:
     
    #4 ibizacupra, Jul 19, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2011
  5. joehirth

    joehirth Rate me up baby

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    This is what made me think that the throttle body was different itself, hence asking the question about swapping throttle bodies originally.

    Going back to your wiring though I'm now confused as to which way to swap (I'm doing these at the TB plug as it's more accessible and I've already spliced these wires).

    I say that because for example the AUM ECU @ Pin#118 is sending a signal to the bottom of the motor so that needs to be swapped for Pin#83 which is going to the bottom of the motor in the AYP harness.

    I would of done:

    ECU wire (AUM) > Throttle body wire (AYP)

    118 > 83
    117 > 84
    91 > 117
    83 > 91
    84 > 118
    92 > 92

    Relating this to the plug connector @ TB would suggest

    ECU wire (AUM) > Throttle body wire (AYP)

    5 > 2
    3 > 4
    6 > 3
    2 > 6
    4 > 5
    1 > 1

    That to me seems the way it should go rather than your way, could you double check that?


    EDIT - Also Bill, what do you reckon on swapping Pin#73 > Pin#36 and vice versa (for TPS - G79) seems there's only two wires different between the sensors.
     
    #5 joehirth, Jul 19, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2011
  6. ibizacupra

    ibizacupra Jack-RIP my little Friend
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    I did @ ecu.. I dont believe the ayp wiring for throttle pin ID can be correct.

    simple check to stock multimeter across motor pins.. you should see a non changing ohm reading for the motor windings, connector pins 3,5 on throttlebody

    across the others you should see fixed resistance across the 2 pots and the variable resistance from the wiper.

    Have you posted the pedal end wiring to ecu in comparison to AUM?
     
    #6 ibizacupra, Jul 19, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2011
  7. joehirth

    joehirth Rate me up baby

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    Post #2 has the pedal sensor wiring diagram comparisons.

    With the ohm reading's etc I disconnect the plug from TB - put multimeter over the connector (harness side) I need ignition on right? Thought the motor was 2 & 4 according to AYP wiring? Or 3 & 5 according to AUM wiring?

    I'll be home for around 6ish tonight and first of all I'm going to swap Pins#73 with #36 to see if the throttle body receives a signal, because if you say that they're all interchangeable that *should* sort the problem. Probably wrong but worth a shot. My next thing is to try a BAM/ AUM throttle body - as the wiring diagrams suggest they're exact the same (inc internal components).
     
  8. joehirth

    joehirth Rate me up baby

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    Here's my findings from tonight (still doesn't work).

    This is with throttle body wiring as OEM (AYP) and throttle sensor wiring with pins #73 > #36 and #36 to #73.

    Foot off throttle:

    [​IMG]

    Foot flat to floor:

    [​IMG]

    As you can see when I put foot to floor the value decreases

    Swapped Pin#36 and #73 back to OEM positions so all the wiring is as the car came out the factory with, these are the results;

    Foot off throttle:

    [​IMG]

    Foot flat to floor:

    [​IMG]

    From what I can work out VAGCOM/ ECU is looking for "G187 and G188" These are parts inside the throttle body itself. After looking at various other models the Ibiza/ Cordoba seem to be the only throttle bodies to have different internal components, it has "G69 and G88" instead of "G187 and G188". Although the throttle bodies all seem to be interchangeable has anyone ever actually taken an AYP throttle body and successfully matched it with a AUM or other wideband ECU car?

    Tomorrow I'm going to try a BAM throttle body which is EXACTLY the same as a AUM throttle body - so no arguements that the ECU isn't expecting anything.

    G79 and G185 seem to be the same and working on both AYP and AUM engines.
     
    #8 joehirth, Jul 19, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2011
  9. ibizacupra

    ibizacupra Jack-RIP my little Friend
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    yes, the bodies are interchangable - I swap bodies across models when checking, run 80mm, R32, and several std ones off assorted engines.. onto lupo (AUM) off my old ibiza (AYP), all work perfectly.

    Your pedal sender looks wrong to me.. the % should be higher ont he changes.. not 37% max.. thats not right

    the parts you describe are throttle pots inside the throttle body, which are mirroring the pedal (or should do) they work in opposition, verifying the motors gone where it was told to, and as per the pedals movement..

    when checking with a multimeter for the resistance its not Ign on dude.. You are looking for the motor resistane.. which is on pin 3,#5 according to my dbw throttle diagram, which matches the aum witing diagram, but as I said before oddly does'nt match the ayp one you posted,.
     
    #9 ibizacupra, Jul 20, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2011
  10. joehirth

    joehirth Rate me up baby

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    I agree it doesn't seem right but rewiring it didn't make a difference it made it read back to front :(

    How difficult is it to change the pedal/ sender units over surely this would solve the problem? I'm starting to lose it now :(

    As for checking resistance I do this on the TB itself, not the wiring then? Do the pin numbers on the TB corrospond to the plug which plugs into it?


    If I get a chance tonight I will plug the old ECU back in and VAGCOM block 062 to see what it comes up with as a comparison. I have a BAM throttle body to test too, just for my personal piece of mine as well (not that I don't trust you Bill)
     
    #10 joehirth, Jul 20, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2011
  11. ibizacupra

    ibizacupra Jack-RIP my little Friend
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    ref the reversal.. I have said this previously
    this would reverse the direction of those 2 pots.

    Motor windings, yes check on the throttle itself to confirm the pins and numbering match the throttle... Should be #3, #5
     
    #11 ibizacupra, Jul 20, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2011
  12. joehirth

    joehirth Rate me up baby

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    So Bill, let me get this clear, I should swap Pins#73 <-> 36 (TPS) so they're as they were when the pedal sensor was saying it was decreasing and swap the Pins#6 <-> 2 on the throttle body so that the values read correctly?

    As for checking resistance I know the throttle body works fine, I plug my old ECU back in and it's like normal.

    Also what sort of values should I expect in the first 2 boxes?

    Are you sure about the 37% being wrong - this picture suggests it's not far off:

    [​IMG]
     
    #12 joehirth, Jul 20, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2011
  13. joehirth

    joehirth Rate me up baby

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    OK right so this morning I tested a different throttle body - as Bill said they're all interchangeable, he was correct the same values were shown on both throttle bodies.

    I have now ordered a wiring loom from an AUM engine - the larger plug only at the moment which is the one where all the problems seem to be. I will replace this hopefully at the weekend and if I still have problems I can put it down to individual components being different as the ECU and loom will be correct.
     
    #13 joehirth, Jul 21, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2011
  14. joehirth

    joehirth Rate me up baby

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    Had a really interesting find this evening, I plugged my AYP ECU back in and all wiring is now back to OEM. (Wanted some original logs so that I have a benchmark to base everything on)

    This is what I found:

    Foot off throttle

    [​IMG]

    Foot flat to floor

    [​IMG]

    This tells me that the throttle pedal sensor is working correctly because it reads the same values between different ECU's and even different throttle body's.

    Things which it highlights is that the first two boxes (throttle body itself) value's should move when pressing the pedal. All combinations of throttle body's and wiring for throttle pedal sensor with the AUM ECU show no movement in these boxes, which tells me there are only 2 variables left, the ECU or the wiring from the ECU to the throttle body. Hopefully my mate who has an Octavia VRS (AUQ) will let me try my AYP ECU in his car - if I get readings from the throttle body in his car with my ECU this tells me that the wiring is the same and that the ECU itself is shot. It's looking more than likely that the ECU is dead, which would explain ALL my problems :)

    P.S. Also heard that when people's lambda probes rub through on the body of the car it can cause a faulty throttle because it shorts out and blows the chip in the ECU which controls both throttle and lambda. :confused: (This hasn't happened to me but it highlights that the ECU can burn out)
     
    #14 joehirth, Jul 21, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2011
  15. joehirth

    joehirth Rate me up baby

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    Tested both ECU's they're fine so I know the only variable left is the wiring.
    Tonight I wired in "J271" relay - however had all sorts of problems and the cars ignition wouldn't turn off even after I removed the key :confused:

    Interestingly VCDS picked up that the throttle body wasn't responding this time - here are the codes:



    Wednesday, 27 July 2011, 20:30:34:36643

    VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.1

    Control Module Part Number: 06A 906 032 HJ

    Component and/or Version: 1.8L R4/5VT G 0002

    Software Coding: 11500

    Work Shop Code: WSC 00000

    VCID: 6DADC594349F

    Additional Info: WVWZZZ1JZ2W690621 VWZ7Z0A4429004

    5 Faults Found:

    18010 - Power Supply Terminal 30: Voltage too Low

    P1602 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

    17987 - Throttle Actuator (J338): Adaptation Not Started

    P1579 - 35-00 - -

    17072 - ECM Power Relay Load Circuit: (J271): Open Circuit

    P0688 - 35-00 - -

    18058 - Powertrain Data Bus: Missing Message from Instrument Cluster

    P1650 - 35-00 - -

    17931 - Crash Signal from Airbag Controller: Implausible Signal

    P1523 - 35-00 - -

    Not sure where to go from here - I have an AUM loom on the way (hopefully will turn up tomorrow) Anyone swapped a whole loom over before?

    Going to possibly try that this weekend then return to OEM after that and forget about wideband, I know it may pit the car at risk long term but it might be something that I don't have a choice over.
     
  16. Cincy

    Cincy Guest

    I saw in another thread this car is running. I'm having the same issue with my TT. The throttle body doesn't move and the car will start and then stall. Same swap in general from a ATC to AWP wideband swap. Hoping you had a solution to why this swap isn't like the others that just have to add 3 wires? Really don't want a narrowband tune.
     
  17. joehirth

    joehirth Rate me up baby

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    Hi Cincy - yes I have the car running, however as previously said on the other thread I wasn't able to do it :(.

    I'm not sure what's been done to make it work but I know the throttle body wiring stays the same. Although the schematics suggest that the wiring is different it actually isn't!!

    There must be something elsewhere which needs to be done in order to make it work. Wak and Morgan @ VAGCheck did it for me in the end after lots of trial and error, I would get in contact with them to see what to do.
     
  18. Cincy

    Cincy Guest

    Thanks. I'll send them an email. Hopefully they will share.
     
  19. joehirth

    joehirth Rate me up baby

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    Doubt it, they had to have my car there before they would even start talking about it...
     
  20. ArtemK

    ArtemK Active Member

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    Very interesting story desribed here.
    Have you got success on it?
     

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