fab'd manifold

[ibizacupra]

pipes and flanges are in....
now the fun task of playing join em all up.. lol

going to be some veyr long hours worked now

deadlines approaching!

 

[ibizacupra]

another idea of pipes vs position.

 

[Yumann]

Shouldn't you keep the pipes as short as possible to minmise lag and pressurisation time?

How durable do you think the ss sch10 is? Will it be prone to cracking.

Ive been toying with the idea with some time now but i have sch40 cast really heavyweight stuff.

I decided to stay away from ss as i have heard that it really warp badly. I take it you going to get the flanges machine flat after build?

 

[Feel]

Should do, I think it's more to do with heat loss between the cylinder and the turbine - the more heat the exhaust gass loses the less engery it has to put into spining the turbine.

With a turbo the size of that last one though, there's probably a compromise to get the thing under the bonnet!

Wastegate placement is pretty good, but I'd still worry about it flapping about under braking etc. Especially with Bill driving. A lot simpler than that other one, although 4-1.

You must've settled on a layout/design by now though Bill

 

[wild willy]

another idea of pipes vs position.

Feck me, the last time i saw pipe work like that i was watching "Charlie & The Chocolate Factory".
Some serious engineering going on there Bill, nice and neat too.

 

[ibizacupra]

this pipework is'nt mine.. its a Honda.
A Vortex guy who seems to know what he's doing... good fabrication.

I am still chewing the fat on what goes where.
Collector is made.. needs cleaning and pruning to shape and then the fun job of what goes where commences..
Wastegate actuator also will need relocation too (somehow, somewhere)

Its a case of compromises, tying to make as few as possible and locate the thing, so its servicable, good flowing, well supported and wont melt nearby stuff.

the mroe I look at the new one vs the old PE I think... feck me... its a monstor. (larger turbine wheel than a GT30!)

 

[ibizacupra]

Shouldn't you keep the pipes as short as possible to minmise lag and pressurisation time?

How durable do you think the ss sch10 is? Will it be prone to cracking.

Ive been toying with the idea with some time now but i have sch40 cast really heavyweight stuff.

I decided to stay away from ss as i have heard that it really warp badly. I take it you going to get the flanges machine flat after build?

I think Sch10 will be well up for it... 2.77mm wall thickness.
Sch40 is just too heavy for my liking.. finished mani needs a brace to support its own weight let alone a phat turbo sat on it.

my 1.6mm thick DP has lasted well, crack free. (SuperDan constructed (TM) )

 

[Yumann]

This is what my mani will look like when its been welded. Stil to get the flange made up from the gasket.

 

[ibizacupra]

you gone log style then...
flows are'nt going to be very nice or balanced.

compact & simple

not my cuppa tea tho


I have a spare 304 laser profiled head flange if you wanted one.

 

[ibizacupra]

Shouldn't you keep the pipes as short as possible to minmise lag and pressurisation time?

log mani (now I've seen what you're trying) has shown faster spool from being shorter runners, but as soon as airflow starts to spool well, equal length passes and goes on to make significantly more power.

will see if I can dig out the dyno off vortex of a comparison between log and equal length HERE> http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2679826&page=3

GT30R
Compressor 76.2mm, 56 Trim .60 ar
Turbine 60mm, 84 Trim, .82 a/r
AER Stadalone Management (England)
Both Pulls @ 23.5 psi
Superflow Engine Dyno


Full Race
hp - red
tq - teal

ATP
hp - blue
tq - green

 

[Yumann]

you gone log style then...
flows are'nt going to be very nice or balanced.

compact & simple

not my cuppa tea tho


I have a spare 304 laser profiled head flange if you wanted one.

I do have more pipe i'm going to do 2-1 and 2-1 kinda like an equal length just using straights and 45s.

My mate works in an engineering firm so he's going to laser cut me up some mild steel flanges.

What kinda welder do you have Bill? I've been looking into getting a tig welder of some sort but do no what kind is best any tip or hints?

Oh and how do you plan to cut the pipe for the collector end?

 

[Yumann]

Wow that is pretty impressive, thats nearly and extra 150hp from an equal length.

Its very interesting to see the log type spools faster lower down, but at 5300rpm it fabed really does come into it own.

log mani (now I've seen what you're trying) has shown faster spool from being shorter runners, but as soon as airflow starts to spool well, equal length passes and goes on to make significantly more power.

will see if I can dig out the dyno off vortex of a comparison between log and equal length HERE> http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2679826&page=3

GT30R
Compressor 76.2mm, 56 Trim .60 ar
Turbine 60mm, 84 Trim, .82 a/r
AER Stadalone Management (England)
Both Pulls @ 23.5 psi
Superflow Engine Dyno


Full Race
hp - red
tq - teal

ATP
hp - blue
tq - green

 

[ibizacupra]

the log style is less volume so less to fill, hence faster. (my understanding)
when flows get faster tho, log style does'nt flow so well with cylinders blowing at each other. equal length with a narrow angle merge collector flows better at the higher flow rates. downside is fill time is going to be longer due to more pipework. Some balance of pipe size and length req'd me thinks.

I have MIG and TIG (ac/dc) at my disposal.
got my new TIG working this weekend, some 3 years after actually buying it

Migatronic unit.

 

[ibizacupra]

Oh and how do you plan to cut the pipe for the collector end?

All I have is a selection of 45's and 90's in short and long pattern, some straight, and some 3" hygenic pipe bends and fittings for the DP.

fittings are 304L Sch10

Collector was/is a 'mare

Got sent a profile to cut to, which when templated on bog-roll (dont laugh) worked perfectly.
Transfering this to the pipe however, and it has'nt worked out as I thought... not as good a fit as I hoped. Much fettling & it went together. Cut on a Mill.

One of the angles was'nt quite right, which when x4 pieces merge they did'nt sit right. All day saturday messing with it. frustrating day, but there is a fab'd collector to show for it.

 

[F2 Stu]

Is that a stratch start set you got there?

 

[Yumann]

Is that a stratch start set you got there?

???

 

[ibizacupra]

Is that a stratch start set you got there?

no (well it can be if I turn it on)
its got HF start

was welding the collector to turbo flange last night.

I'm not so sure MIG would'nt be the better welding process with suitable wire than my TIG. Needed TIG for some area's where there is little room for weld for bolt head clearance, and neat inner seal fusion runs.

Shrinkage is a killa

I luv my automatic shield now - 1st time I have used it in anger.

my weld plant>> http://www.migatronic.com/media/pilot_200acdc.pdf

 

[Yumann]

Any piccys?

 

[Feel]

I'm not so sure MIG would'nt be the better welding process with suitable wire than my TIG. Needed TIG for some area's where there is little room for weld for bolt head clearance, and neat inner seal fusion runs.

Shrinkage is a killa

Out of interest, why might MIG be better? By shrinkage, do you mean it's warping a bit as you go?

There's a knack to knowing what to weld up first, something that I never really mastered, but stainless does like to warp (obviously it likes to expand esp. compared to steel) esp. low gauges. Try and keep your amps low, to keep the heat input low, make sure you've tacked it all up first, try and keep your runs short, take your time etc. etc. You should be able to control the heat better with TIG.

Have you got the flanges bolted down? It might help, but be warned that sometimes you can't get it off the jig after welding it all up, apparently

 

[ibizacupra]

Out of interest, why might MIG be better? By shrinkage, do you mean it's warping a bit as you go?

There's a knack to knowing what to weld up first, something that I never really mastered, but stainless does like to warp (obviously it likes to expand esp. compared to steel) esp. low gauges. Try and keep your amps low, to keep the heat input low, make sure you've tacked it all up first, try and keep your runs short, take your time etc. etc. You should be able to control the heat better with TIG.

Have you got the flanges bolted down? It might help, but be warned that sometimes you can't get it off the jig after welding it all up, apparently

It is the heat input yes.. and yes it warps easy as...
MIG will lay the weld down fast faster than I can add filler to TIG (probably just me mind you)

lots of tacks first, but shrinkage is shrinkage and stst loves to expand and shrink with heat/cool

hopefully get the hang o fit.

used 85amps on 2.77mm wt fittings to 10mm flange