Failing Clutch / Shifting issues

everson38

Active Member
May 15, 2017
470
35
walsall
Hey guys, posting in behalf of my sister (uni student amd first full year driving). Its a 62 plate 1.2 TSI Seat ibiza. Sister complaining of issues :

1) The clutch bite point on this car is very high - I did the usual search youtube and did tje test to check if your clutch is failing and it did pass the test but it is high and compared to my moms 1.4 2009 mk5 ibiza they are day and night difference? What can i check or is it normal?

2) She said today that the car wouldny move and she said she was in first gear? She then restarted again and then it went into 1st gear? - again what can i check ?


Thanks again

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Crossthreaded

Active Member
Apr 16, 2019
536
145
Hey guys, posting in behalf of my sister (uni student amd first full year driving). Its a 62 plate 1.2 TSI Seat ibiza. Sister complaining of issues :

1) The clutch bite point on this car is very high - I did the usual search youtube and did tje test to check if your clutch is failing and it did pass the test but it is high and compared to my moms 1.4 2009 mk5 ibiza they are day and night difference? What can i check or is it normal?

2) She said today that the car wouldny move and she said she was in first gear? She then restarted again and then it went into 1st gear? - again what can i check ?


Thanks again

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Hi. I'm not that familiar with that actual model but can I assume it's a hydraulically actuated clutch like mine? If so i would strongly suspect problems with either slave or master cylinder - maybe both. Of course this can only be a guess from this distance, but as it's much easier and cheaper if that is what's wrong it's what I would eliminate first.
Good luck. Please do let us know what it turns out to be won't you?
 

everson38

Active Member
May 15, 2017
470
35
walsall
Hi. I'm not that familiar with that actual model but can I assume it's a hydraulically actuated clutch like mine? If so i would strongly suspect problems with either slave or master cylinder - maybe both. Of course this can only be a guess from this distance, but as it's much easier and cheaper if that is what's wrong it's what I would eliminate first.
Good luck. Please do let us know what it turns out to be won't you?
Hey cross, yeah for sure i will keep updated on how things go. In the terms of a possible bad clutch master cylinder or slave cylinder, what ty0e of things should i be looking out for if they are bad?

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Crossthreaded

Active Member
Apr 16, 2019
536
145
Hey cross, yeah for sure i will keep updated on how things go. In the terms of a possible bad clutch master cylinder or slave cylinder, what ty0e of things should i be looking out for if they are bad?

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Hi everson. Most obvious first question is what sort of mileage do you think that clutch has done? Maybe it is just at the end of it's life. As regards the cylinders themselves, well, both can leak when their seals wear so first check the reservoir level. Now a days clutch and brake fluid reservoirs are often one shared unit so if you can't find a separate clutch reservoir it's probably "piggy backing" on the brake one. Is the level low? bear in mind that if it's a shared reservoir a failure of clutch hydraulics will not be able to drain it by more than about a third to prevent failure of the brakes.

Next take a look up under the dash and locate where the push rod from the clutch pedal goes into the back of the master cylinder. You'll almost certainly need a bright torch and a certificate in contortionism to achieve this as most are really difficult to see. There should be no sign of brake fluid here. If the master cyl has failed it's not unusual to find fluid dribbling down the pedal. Should this be the case be careful when driving as the fluid will make the pedal rubber very slippy if it gets on it - Lethal on a brake pedal.

On many cars with hydraulic clutches you can also see the slave cylinder and check it for leaks too. However on some applications (my Cordoba was one) you can't see the "business end" of the cylinder because of the way it's installed - The "business end", that's the end that acts on the clutch release arm, is inside the bell housing. It's not a big job to remove the mounting screws and pull it out so you can examine it, but be careful not to dislodge the release arm from it's pivot inside the bell housing if you do. Unfortunately quite a number of modern cars use a "concentric release bearing" and you're stuffed if you've got one of these as you need to remove the gearbox to see it. If it's leaking badly so that fluid is dribbling out of the bottom of the bell housing you can get a good idea of whether it's brake/clutch fluid or gearbox oil from it's feel and smell which are both substantially different.

My son's Fiat Punto had a clutch problem last year but the opposite to yours. The pedal was almost on the floor before the drive would either disengage or engage but once under way it did not slip and the car otherwise drove well. gear selection was "stiff and baulky" unless you pushed the pedal fully to the floor. It developed slowly over a number of months, slowly getting worse. Luckily the slave cylinder was mounted to the exterior of the bellhousing and you could see a wetness around the end where the pushrod came out of it - wasn't exactly leaking buckets though. We decided to change both slave and master cylinder (2012 regy vehicle) The slave was a doddle to do but the master cylinder was a real pain. It has to come out through the inside of the car (most are removed from the engine side of the bulkhead) and necessitated the removal of the pedal cluster for access. Being a double jointed, small of stature, contortionist with 21 inch long fingers would have been a major advantage. I've also had problems with our second car, a 2010 Panda, which required a slave cylinder. Both these cars have plastic cylinders, both master and slave. Leaking hydraulics on aging vehicles is a common problem but my perception of late is that these plastic components are not as robust or long lived as the older cast iron and alloy units used to be. Both of the Fiats were restored to robust good health with their new cylinders.

If you can find a local independent garage you can trust it's been my experience that they will usually give you an opinion free of charge and that might be your best bet. Can I ask where you live - just general area - maybe someone (a knowledgeable forum member) is near enough to give you a second opinion
 

everson38

Active Member
May 15, 2017
470
35
walsall
Hi everson. Most obvious first question is what sort of mileage do you think that clutch has done? Maybe it is just at the end of it's life. As regards the cylinders themselves, well, both can leak when their seals wear so first check the reservoir level. Now a days clutch and brake fluid reservoirs are often one shared unit so if you can't find a separate clutch reservoir it's probably "piggy backing" on the brake one. Is the level low? bear in mind that if it's a shared reservoir a failure of clutch hydraulics will not be able to drain it by more than about a third to prevent failure of the brakes.

Next take a look up under the dash and locate where the push rod from the clutch pedal goes into the back of the master cylinder. You'll almost certainly need a bright torch and a certificate in contortionism to achieve this as most are really difficult to see. There should be no sign of brake fluid here. If the master cyl has failed it's not unusual to find fluid dribbling down the pedal. Should this be the case be careful when driving as the fluid will make the pedal rubber very slippy if it gets on it - Lethal on a brake pedal.

On many cars with hydraulic clutches you can also see the slave cylinder and check it for leaks too. However on some applications (my Cordoba was one) you can't see the "business end" of the cylinder because of the way it's installed - The "business end", that's the end that acts on the clutch release arm, is inside the bell housing. It's not a big job to remove the mounting screws and pull it out so you can examine it, but be careful not to dislodge the release arm from it's pivot inside the bell housing if you do. Unfortunately quite a number of modern cars use a "concentric release bearing" and you're stuffed if you've got one of these as you need to remove the gearbox to see it. If it's leaking badly so that fluid is dribbling out of the bottom of the bell housing you can get a good idea of whether it's brake/clutch fluid or gearbox oil from it's feel and smell which are both substantially different.

My son's Fiat Punto had a clutch problem last year but the opposite to yours. The pedal was almost on the floor before the drive would either disengage or engage but once under way it did not slip and the car otherwise drove well. gear selection was "stiff and baulky" unless you pushed the pedal fully to the floor. It developed slowly over a number of months, slowly getting worse. Luckily the slave cylinder was mounted to the exterior of the bellhousing and you could see a wetness around the end where the pushrod came out of it - wasn't exactly leaking buckets though. We decided to change both slave and master cylinder (2012 regy vehicle) The slave was a doddle to do but the master cylinder was a real pain. It has to come out through the inside of the car (most are removed from the engine side of the bulkhead) and necessitated the removal of the pedal cluster for access. Being a double jointed, small of stature, contortionist with 21 inch long fingers would have been a major advantage. I've also had problems with our second car, a 2010 Panda, which required a slave cylinder. Both these cars have plastic cylinders, both master and slave. Leaking hydraulics on aging vehicles is a common problem but my perception of late is that these plastic components are not as robust or long lived as the older cast iron and alloy units used to be. Both of the Fiats were restored to robust good health with their new cylinders.

If you can find a local independent garage you can trust it's been my experience that they will usually give you an opinion free of charge and that might be your best bet. Can I ask where you live - just general area - maybe someone (a knowledgeable forum member) is near enough to give you a second opinion

Hey Cross.

The cars current mileage is about 65k miles. I had my sister loom and she said the brake fluid level js still in max so it leaking externally seems unlikely, ive heard of it leaking inside itself. Onpy issie is she lives in Nottingham and im based in birmingham so getting her home with good weather can.be an issue. My major concern is that i check for leaks and loss of.fluid level etc etc and if they all check out, it will be where to next? I feel it will be a get inside and look job and again not to see anything too clear, so you enter territory of throwing parts at it. I plan to start simple, inspection and them bleed the.clutch and hopefully it is the simple things.

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Crossthreaded

Active Member
Apr 16, 2019
536
145
Hey Cross.

The cars current mileage is about 65k miles. I had my sister loom and she said the brake fluid level js still in max so it leaking externally seems unlikely, ive heard of it leaking inside itself. Onpy issie is she lives in Nottingham and im based in birmingham so getting her home with good weather can.be an issue. My major concern is that i check for leaks and loss of.fluid level etc etc and if they all check out, it will be where to next? I feel it will be a get inside and look job and again not to see anything too clear, so you enter territory of throwing parts at it. I plan to start simple, inspection and them bleed the.clutch and hopefully it is the simple things.

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At 65,000 miles it's hard to say regarding wear. We had an old fellow who ran a Morris Minor when I worked on the shop floor who had a new clutch every year. You could hear him slipping it all the way from the end of the road. On the other hand It's not unreasonable to find a modern clutch, well treated, to last in excess of 100,000 miles. Pretty much all down to the driver.

Bleeding would be an excellent place to start. Clutches can sometimes be "strange" to bleed with air shuttling back up the pipe before you can get the next stroke completed. If you are having problems I find the following procedure works quite well. With the nipple closed pump the pedal up and down in a "deliberate", not too fast sort of way, for say 3 strokes. Hold the pedal down to the floor and open the bleed nipple - watch out the fluid will spray out under pressure so hold the bleed pipe onto the nipple. With the pedal still on the floor, close the nipple then let the pedal return in a controlled way, ie not too fast, so that no air can leak round the seals. Repeat until you get clear fluid without air bubbles. If you are having trouble with bleeding there are some very interesting You Tube videos on the subject.

Good luck!
 
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everson38

Active Member
May 15, 2017
470
35
walsall
At 65,000 miles it's hard to say regarding wear. We had an old fellow who ran a Morris Minor when I worked on the shop floor who had a new clutch every year. You could hear him slipping it all the way from the end of the road. On the other hand It's not unreasonable to find a modern clutch, well treated, to last in excess of 100,000 miles. Pretty much all down to the driver.

Bleeding would be an excellent place to start. Clutches can sometimes be "strange" to bleed with air shuttling back up the pipe before you can get the next stroke completed. If you are having problems I find the following procedure works quite well. With the nipple closed pump the pedal up and down in a "deliberate", not too fast sort of way, for say 3 strokes. Hold the pedal down to the floor and open the bleed nipple - watch out the fluid will spray out under pressure so hold the bleed pipe onto the nipple. With the pedal still on the floor, close the nipple then let the pedal return in a controlled way, ie not too fast, so that no air can leak round the seals. Repeat until you get clear fluid without air bubbles. If you are having trouble with bleeding there are some very interesting You Tube videos on the subject.

Good luck!
Well things take a turn for the worst. Ingrt a call this evening to say that the car wont move forward. Luckily she was at university home in Nottingham, but seems like it needs to be towed to a garage up there. Im unsure on what to advise next really??? I got her ti send a video, not sure if it helps but any suggestions would be great

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