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Folding Mirrors by remote

Discussion in 'Leon Mk2 (2006-2012)' started by Chris P, Mar 15, 2010.

  1. Chris P

    Chris P Active Member

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    I noticed on a previous thread that you can fold the door mirrors, with the remote, by holding the lock button for a few seconds. When I read this I tried it and it worked and I have done this a number of times since.
    I tried to use it again yesterday and for some reason it's not folding any more.
    Does anybody know if this is something that can be set / re-set in the car or if its a setting that has to be looked at by the dealers.
    The switch in the car seems to work, just not with the key???
     
  2. Lee Edgecombe

    Lee Edgecombe Photoshop ;)

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    are you keeping a direct connection to the car when you are holding the lock button, cause i know when im holding the lock button down and walking away for example, sometimes the mirrors dont fold in cause they have lost connection to the key. I think thats what happens with me anyway
     
  3. Cupranation

    Cupranation Active Member

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    do they still fold when you turn the mirror button by the handbrake to the fold position? This would tell you if its a problem with the key or the folding mechanisms.
     
  4. Chris P

    Chris P Active Member

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    The mirrors still fold and adjust using the switch.
    With the key I can be holding it right up to the drivers window and it still doesn't operate.
    Sounds like a possible key issue then perhaps? I thought maybe something had reset itself and needed re-activating?
     
  5. jrsmooth

    jrsmooth Active Member

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    Or your battery needs replacing.....
     
  6. Slimy

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    Does the folding by remote depend on the internal switch being left in a particular position? For example, the reversing mirrors need the switch to be on the drivers position for it to be engaged by the reverse gear.

    I have noticed that since I set up the auto windows, my remote seems to be struggling. I guess there is a big difference between pressing it to lock it, and holding it down to wind the windows up!
     
  7. HotHatchSteve

    HotHatchSteve Active Member

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    Ive had this with mine to. What I found was if I try to close one of the windows when it is already closed it sometimes stops the mirrors working via the remote. All I did was put the windows down then back up letting them take them selves to the closed position and the mirrors started to work again. Why this happens I dont know, but it has a couple of times now.
     
  8. rockape

    rockape Active Member

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    I had this problem a couple of weeks ago. Using the MFD I reset everything back to factory settings. It then worked fine. It also reset the doors to open with only one press of the button! I hated having to press twice for passengers and then again for the boot, grrr.
     
  9. Nath.

    Nath. The Gentlemans Express

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    I had this once, the mirrors and sunroof wouldn't close from the key, Basically I was too far away from the car, I fitted a new battery and all was good.

    Then I decided to do the second flip key mod [B)]

    It says in the handbook not to press the buttons on the keyfob when not in range of the car as it can delete the key to car pairing.........................
     
  10. Chris P

    Chris P Active Member

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    Cheer all, I tried Steves method when I left work and it had done the trick. As soon as I read t I knew this could be the one as I remembered pushing the window up when it was already closed (a habbit I got into with my previous car).
    The battery shouldn't have been an issue as the car is not yet 6 months old.
    Anyways, thanks again for your replies and suggestions.
     
  11. HotHatchSteve

    HotHatchSteve Active Member

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    Glad you got it sorted. I am always making sure the back ones are closed incase the kids leave the windows down.
     
  12. sagsag

    sagsag Guest

    Let us be more accurate. I suppose that when writing "direct connection to the car" you mean "being close to the car" (you don't physically connect your RC to the car).

    I, too, noticed that the mirror folding seems not to work quite frequently in my car. Being an electronic engineer, I can't relate to an explanation such as "sometimes the mirrors dont fold in cause they have lost connection to the key."

    I played around with holding the lock button in various situations, and realized that what seems to be hapenning is that when holding the lock button, the range required to initiate the mirror folding action seems to be much closer than that which is required to initiate the general vehicle lockdown action (i.e. locking the vehicle and rolling the windows and the moonroof). Moreover, I noticed that every time the mirror folding takes place, vehicle lockdown will take place as well, but not the other way around.

    These observations lead me to a surprising conclusion -- that there must be two RC receivers in the car: one that is responsible to initiate vehicle lockdown, while the other is responsible for folding the mirrors alone. The receiver tied to the mirrors must be having worse reception due to positioning or antenna problems.

    Had I had access to the technical resources of Seat, where the electrical modules comprising the vehicle could be seen, I could verify this, however I don't have such an access.

    Do any of you guys has something like this and can check it out?
     
    #12 sagsag, Apr 10, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2010
  13. Slimy

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    I don't think it's two antennas, see what you think of my theory. When you press the button, a sequence of codes is sent, 1 every few milliseconds. If the car picks up one or two of those, it thinks 'ah, I need to lock up', and does it. It doesn't really matter if it reads the first code or a later one, as long as it gets one it will lock.

    However, when you hold the button down to trigger windows and mirrors, it has to receive more than one message in a row. In fact, it needs to carry on receiving messages until it's stopped winding windows/mirrors, and you've taken your finger off the button.

    The key I think is in the lost messages. It doesn't matter for locking, it only needs one to lock. So if the range isn't good, you can lose 4 out of 5 messages and it will still work. For windows, it needs all 5 messages to arrive before it'll do it's trick. So, you have to be closer so all 5 messages get through, you can't afford to be further away and lose any.

    It is just a theory. The one thing I do know is that wherever they've put the antenna (s), they can't be very well placed. I've seen on other VAG forums of common alarm fixes including rerouting the antenna. As soon as I find one that is more relevent to SEAT, I'll post it up and then we can all live happy in keyfob ranges measured in metres rather than inches...
     
  14. sagsag

    sagsag Guest

    Slimy, as I explained, in my experiments I wasn't checking a simple door lock, but rather a full vehicle lockout (or lockdown), which also includes rolling of the windows and moonroof. To do initiate this, one must hold the lock button pressed as well (at least in my car's configuration).

    I have no problem to initiate full vehicle lockdown within any reasonable distance I tried. But the mirrors will only fold when I do this in a relatively close range.

    To be clear: starting from a certain distance, when holding the lock button pressed, the windows will close, but the mirrors will not fold.

    This behaviour led me to my theory of the two receivers.

    BTW, while your theory of the receiver having to receive several messages in a row to detect a long press of a key (to initiate the mirror folding action) makes some sense, my experience with automotive systems is that when a button of the remote control is pressed for a long time, the transmitter (i.e. the RC, not the receiver) usually begins to transmit a different code after a while, so it is sufficient for the receiver to receive only one message to understand the button has been depressed for a longer period.
     
    #14 sagsag, Apr 11, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2010
  15. Slimy

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    Ah, now I understand what you were doing, my bad. That does suggest the mirrors are working off the same signal but through a different antenna.

    I'm still not sure about that last bit though. I can understand there being a second code for 'button held down for a bit longer', but the lockdown still stops dead when you take the finger off the button. Had it just been one message, the lockdown would complete after the remote is released. If I walk away from the car with the button held down, the same thing happens.

    Unless yours does finish it's job after the button is released? On mine the windows stop going up when I release the button, I'd need something like the autowindows modules for it to be a 'one touch' system.

    Oh yeah, I forgot to mention I have access to Elsawin, so once I get on there I'll have a look at the electrical modules for you.
     
    #15 Slimy, Apr 11, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2010
  16. sagsag

    sagsag Guest

    Yes, mine does finish the job after releasing the button. In fact, it will only start rolling the moonroof after all windows have been shut, which also happens after I release the button.

    I do experience what you describe with the opening action -- when I hold the unlock button depressed, the windows open, and in this case I really need to hold the button depressed, otherwise they stop opening the instance I release it.

    Regarding the codes, the systems I'm familiar with (which don't necessarily behave the same as VAG's) do transmit periodically, but also change the transmission code after the button has been depressed for a long period. They also send a few transmissions when all buttons are released.

    Obviously, if there is some action that can be halted by a release of the button, the receiver must maintain some sort of a timeout mechanism to halt the process after no messages are received for a period of time equivalent to the transmission of a few messages.

    I have no idea what are the systems being used by VAG, so it might as well use the logic you described! However, the actual logic used by the transmitter & receiver doesn't really change my findings, or conflict with my theory of two receivers.

    If you could have a look in the technical papers it would be brilliant! :thumbup:
    Keep me informed :)
     
  17. LeonFRDave

    LeonFRDave Active Member

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    Fantastic - this tip helped get my mirrors folding by remote again. Sounds like a software bug to me, will quiz the dealer when I take my car in for some other niggles.
     

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