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Grahams81-Leon 4wd, Big Turbo - Back in the saddle :-)

Discussion in 'Readers Rides (SEAT)' started by grahams81, Dec 24, 2010.

  1. alcarp

    alcarp Active Member

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    Ah right I must have forgotten that from the huge thread :)

    Certainly will be able to handle plenty with them in!

    Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
     
  2. t0m

    t0m LCR 225

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    Shame you haven't had as much time as you'd like on it recently mate but good to see an update and great to see you get stuck in to it again so easily.

    Look forward to seeing more :)
     
  3. grahams81

    grahams81 Active Member

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    Yeh it is a bit of a lengthy thread now..... i'm gonna sit down and re-write it all in order once i'm nearing completion.

    Thanks Tom, loving my easter garage time :)

    Yesterdays Update

    So i went to Machine Mart yesterday and bought a Magnetic base and a Dial Test Indicator to check the crank.
    Just for a bit of background i have a bit of mild OCD, and having read many posts over on VWVortex about how the TDI cranks are often bent by hydro locking etc i was very aware that i didn't check the crank wasn't slightly bent when i build the engine up originally..... this has been burning away in the back of my mind so i made the decision to check it all and be 100% happy that everything is in spec.

    So i continued removing the crank end sealing plates / oil pump drive chain & tensioner -

    [​IMG]

    Then i removed the main bearing caps, except the end ones. Mounted up the DTI and got measuring (i had to remove the ARP Main stud from Bearing 3 to allow access for the DTI) -

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Well after all the worry of the crank being bent - it wasn't !!! no bend at all, to the point where i checked and reset the dti about 3 times :D

    As i was convinced it was bent i bought a spare 95.5mm crank offof ebay months ago, so i thought i'd lift out the tested good original and test the spare (thinking if it's ok i'll sell it on as a stroker crank). Well the spare i bought was bent 0.04-0.05mm or 2 thou in old money, in other words enough to burnout the centre bearing if it was used.

    Block looking bear again :(

    [​IMG]

    While the crank was out i decided to safeguard the trigger ring & Oil pump bolt. There have been several occasions of the bolts coming loose on the trigger wheels / oil pumps and destroying engines ( try searching VWVortex if interested)..... especially on high-power / high revving builds due to harmonics. I did use really good Omni-fit (like loctite but German stuff i get from work) on the trigger ring bolts and torqued the new bolts up to spec.

    Standard screws -

    [​IMG]

    So while it was out i dug out the TIG welder and put some tack welds on the screws to stop any chance of them backing-out -

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I also did the oil pump sprocket locating bolt -

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The rest of the day involved me stripping back the rust and paint i put on the block, no pictures of this as it's boring. Gonna order up some POR-15 to paint the block properly and protect it from rust.

    I'm off out to play in the garage :D

    Thanks,

    Graham.
     
  4. grahams81

    grahams81 Active Member

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    Well today was boring :rolleyes:

    If anybody has tried stripping VAG paint from a engine block they will no how hard it is and how soul destroying it is.

    It's that hard even a wire brush attachment in a drill won't shift it.

    I tried some paint thinners last night which softened the outer halfrauds crap i used when i rebuilt the engine.

    [​IMG]

    In the end i used a grinding bit in a dremel to whip the original paint off..... after about 3-4hours of cleaning :banghead2:

    [​IMG]

    Getting there, still another hour left on this side then start the back of the motor..... hopefully be a bit easier as its much flatter.

    Just got to order some POR-15 engine enamel in silver i think.

    Sorry for the boring update but they all can't be interesting :p
     
  5. James23Parkin

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    Not boring for some... [B)]

    Great OCD-esque updates as always Graham. It'll be worth all the effort. I managed a few days consecutive in the man cave the other week on a good behaviour pass from my wife and son. It was quality. Trouble is, you're left wanting more time. With time, it's amazing what you could get done... :)
     
  6. nato

    nato Guest

    Excellent work Graham. So glad to see you back at it especially with the family commitments.
    This thread really is epic and I check back every week to see the latest. Can't wait to see this thing do its first launch! [B)]

    Keep up the excellent work.
     
  7. ongoing

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    Excellent updates buddy keep up the good work
     
  8. grahams81

    grahams81 Active Member

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    Cheers James, yeh your right you can never have enough "man passes" lol

    Thanks Mate... i know its slow going but i'll get there eventually.

    Cheers Bud :)

    Shopping Update

    Well i had some nice deliveries this morning so gonna go do a bit in the garage today.

    First delivery was off of ebay, a Bore Gauge set to measure my main bearing journals / caps.

    [​IMG]

    Next up was my big engine order i placed with Clay @ CTS Turbo.... big thanks to him as always :clap:

    So here are some goodies, i'll let the pics do the talking -

    1.8T Fluidamper - to keep the crank safe at high RPM (especially important when using SMF's) -

    [​IMG]

    A Fresh set of hydraulic lifters for when i install my IECVA1's -

    [​IMG]

    A Blackforrest BFI Gearbox mount complete (i already have the engine side but cheaper out and used the BFI insert for the OEM mount..... i was never happy having the OEM mount there) -

    [​IMG]

    New OEM Rear Main Seal.... as i lost the plastic cap for the one i fitted when i initially built the engine.

    [​IMG]

    A Integrated Engineering Cam Pulley... well why not, it's so nicely made :laugh:
    i also got a EKA Friction disc for the cam Pulley ( i Already have a ARP bolt for the pulley)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    A rather heavy Girdle Plate to keep my Bottom end nice a stiff under high RPM & High boost [B)]

    [​IMG]

    So i've got plenty to do.....still also have to remove the bushes from the front suspension bits to get them over to the powder coaters.

    So long for now,

    Graham.
     
  9. grahams81

    grahams81 Active Member

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    Weekend Update

    Yesterday i started doing something i wanted to do for a while, that was checking the block / main bearing caps were round & true etc.... there's plenty of people who say after fitting ARP main studs the bores should be line bored / honed.

    So i started off building up the bore gauge i got offof ebay (£75 delivered)

    I then cleaned up all the main bearing caps and put all the ARP main studs back in to the block.

    Torqued them down to 60lb/ft and started checking the clearances of the Main Bearing caps.

    So the main bearing cap diameter is 59.00mm - i searched high and low for this figure online, as i wanted to check everything was in order before testing the main bearings.

    I started by zero'ing the DTI @ 59.00 perfectly so that it would be easier to measure the +/-

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I then decided to check each bore in 5 planes.... this was to check for any misalignment of the bearing caps... on some caps there was a slight step at the mating face even before being torqued up, it seems these blocks must "settle" a bit.
    I was worried that too much of a step would cause the clearance to be too small and pinch the crank - this wouldn't be picked up with plastigauge.

    The figures are below -

    [​IMG]

    As you can see some of the figures are a little off..... namely across the joining lines but before i started "adjusting" the main bearing cap sides to correct them i decided that the real test is what the clearance is like with the bearings in place.

    I then measured the thickness of the shells to see if there was any variation between them.... the answer was no they were all exactly the same. With the joining edges being thinner. This is normal for bearing shells as this is how the oil film is generated - by creating a wedge of oil that then gets transported round the bearing by the journal.

    I checked the shells and found a couple of tiny marks on the backs of them so i ran a small flat needle file over the back of the shells to remove any tiny high spots from storage / manufacturing....

    With everything re-fitted and re-torqued i then checked the sizes again -

    [​IMG]

    I also measured up the main journals of the crankshaft and put them in the table, along with the calculated minimum clearance (based on dimension A only - 90 degrees to joining face)
    So the clearances look good between 0.03mm and 0.06mm - The Haynes manual states for new bearings between 0.01mm and 0.04mm with a wear limit of 0.15mm.

    The clearances across the joining line is quite a bit larger but i really struggled to find any limit's for these.... apparently if the 90 degree clearance is correct the joining line is not very important due to the extra clearances already machined into the bearings.

    I wanted to check all these dimensions before i fitted the girdle to see if it changed anything :shrug:

    So the next day i started playing with my Girdle.... of course the wife thought this was hilarious !!! :D

    Started off removing the original ARP main studs i bought -

    [​IMG]

    Quick shot to show the extra length of the Girdley Studs -

    [​IMG]

    First of all i cleaned the threads out in the block, using a M10 coarse plug tap -

    [​IMG]

    Then fitted all by hand until they bottomed out, then put the caps back on -

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Next up i popped on the spacer rings, before i tried the girdle plate on -

    [​IMG]

    I noticed that the plate was rocking so in the absence of a surface plate i thought i'd check the lengths of the spacers prior to torquing the plate down.
    I was quite surprised to find the spacers quite different in length (i know the spacers are to be machined down.... but if they are uneven when the plate is bolted down we will give me inaccurate dimensions to machine them down by)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I then checked them and noticed the machining marks..... really hard to photo but the middle was quite pronounced.

    [​IMG]

    After a quick rub of them against a file mounted in the vice they were much better....to within 0.05mm so good enough to start.

    Unfortunately i didn't have a straight edge in the garage ( i'll bring one home from work this week) so i used the bar of some manual vernier callipers - all the caps were nicely inline so happy days.

    [​IMG]

    I then dropped the girdle back on and it was sitting a little better. When i turned over the girdle it was still a bit rocky..... after measuring it with feeler gauges it appears to have a slight bend in the plate (0.5mm). Not worried about the bend as it'll flatten down easy once the bolts are torqued up.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    That was all i got done, next time i get in the garage i'll torque the mains up and measure the bearings again to see if the girdle alters the clearances at all. And then measure how much the spacers need to have removed to finalise the girdle position.

    Thanks for reading,

    Graham.
     
  10. Pommeh

    Pommeh Active Member

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    Your attention to detail is phenomenal; I'd ask you to build me an engine but it would probably cost me over £200,000 in labour time ;)
     
  11. ibizacupra

    ibizacupra Jack-RIP my little Friend

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    kinda disappointing consistency from ie on the spacers not being uniform or the girdle itself not being **** on flat.. It should be profiled flash ground plate so 0.5mm out of plane is poor. I would be contacting pete as he's always on about his engineering tolerances... QC lacking in this instance.

    Wondering how the sump will sit and the oil pump etc..

    great attention to detail as ever. nice

    The trigger wheel falling off I posted on your concurrent vortex post as you know as to why some folks have issues with their trigger wheels.. One time use as are their mounting bolts for those others reading this.
     
    #1331 ibizacupra, May 20, 2014
    Last edited: May 20, 2014
  12. boabym

    boabym Active Member

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    Unusual for bearing shells to have high spots on the back, who was the manufacturer? Any chance of a pic mate?
     
  13. grahams81

    grahams81 Active Member

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    Thanks Matey, Yeh i'll do engine build for you if you like.... if i start soon i should be done by the time i retire :lol:

    Thanks Bill, i did see the post on VWVortex... interesting stuff (there doesn't seem to be many people who care about it for some reason) - i read about it years ago when i first got a factory ETKA manual. I used a new Trigger ring with new bolts with loctite on.... i just gave them a dab of weld while the crank was out, better safe than sorry an all that. Thanks for the info on that, you sure surprised a few over the pond :)

    I was myself quite shocked about the quality of the girdle kit, normally IE stuff is excellent but this is a little iffy. The spacers have just been parted off in a CNC i guess.

    I at least expected the actual plate to be machined flat... milled or surface ground but it's just in its raw state...i think hot rolled (it's been a while since college and the Materials Science Class) but the surface finish is poor. There are no heat marks on the holes etc so i'm thinking its water cut... either that or laser then polished.

    Here's a few shots of the plate -

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The bend in the plate straightened out incredibly easily as the main studs were nipped down, just a little more than finger tight was enough to tighten up all the spacing rings.
    I'm going to bring home a surface plate from work and see what its like accurately.

    The "high spots" were tiny marks / burrs where they have just been touched probably just in storage but all you need is a slight burr to mess up the rebuild.... wasn't poor machining probably just me. Oh and there Calico coated ACL bearings.
     
    #1333 grahams81, May 20, 2014
    Last edited: May 20, 2014
  14. ibizacupra

    ibizacupra Jack-RIP my little Friend

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    Never used a girdle but a question I have... The plate (which should be flash ground flat not as rolled as you've been sent, I agree thats a little disappointing) is structurally connecting the main caps together, in the middle line of the block, but what straps the girdle to the outer edges of the crankcase to tie it in mechanically "boxing" off the lower section? the little m7 sump bolts?
     
  15. grahams81

    grahams81 Active Member

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    Yeh exactly, the M7 sump bolts bolt through the sump down on the girdle sandwiching it between the block & Sump.
    I still need to have the spacers machined down once i take a measurement of the gap between the girdle / block at several points around the edge. The measurement i take is then removed from the spacers (minus 0.10 to allow for sealant / pulling up) and the idea is the girdle plate will then sit flush with the block.
    On final assembly - apply sealant to the block (as normal if fitting sump) then bolt girdle down and wait for sealant to go off.
    Once the sealant has gone off, build up oil pump etc then remove sump screws from girdle and apply sealant to girdle face.... put on sump and bolt down again using longer supplied M7 screws.
    I have an INA shallow / baffled oil pan to go on so i'll be doing a dry assembly run first to check for clearance against the longer ARP main bolts (my OEM sump hit the shorted ARP bolts like mentioned in your sticky in your section)
    I also need to check for dipstick clearance / check height measurements for it.

    Cheers,
    Graham.
     
  16. Rgm racer

    Rgm racer Active Member

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    Hi Graham,

    Great to see this project moving at a decent pace again. Looking forward [as i'm sure you are!] to seeing it finished and up and running.

    Glad to see you finally making use of the interior bits you had off me. Just in case your interested [or know anyone who would be] I have just put my 6 original LCR Ronal 18" alloys up for sale and will shortly be listing complete rear seat and steering wheel air bag etc.

    Keep up the good work, I know there are many following your progress - Rob.
     
  17. grahams81

    grahams81 Active Member

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    Hi Rob, nice to hear from you. I ask a few mates about your bits mate, if i here anything i'll let you know :)

    Dead line timescale !!!

    Just sat here on holiday, been with the family and best friends.... Sat talking the other day to my Mate who is getting married next year and for his stag doo he wants to do the ring in our cars...... That'll be in Late April next year, so i best get my finger out. Should make the deadline easy, but the only thing now is i have several things of high value still to buy.... Front brake set-up etc. may have load the credit card up to finish the built !

    So the plan will be to get it running asap and even if im not 100% happy with some things i can always come back and redo some stuff after the trip. Really need to have it running by Christmas to allow time for running in / tuning and of course some decent testing to ensure it'll all run good enough to destroy my mates 500bhp scooby round the ring :D

    Get back on Thursday from me jollys and the wife says after spending two weeks with her im free for man time in the garage all weekend so expect some updates :whistle:


    Fridays Update -

    So before i went on holiday i measured up the main crankshaft bearing bores without the girdle fitted to see if it adjusted the clearance by fitting the Crank Girdle.
    I left it torqued up 60ft/lb's so yesterday i set about measuring the bearings with the Bore gauge. Set the bore gauge up and zero'd on 54mm dead.

    I checked the clearances and a few were a little off at 45 degrees to the mating faces so i adjusted the main bearing caps.... the ones that were a little off were loose in the block.
    While i was away on holiday i downloaded an read "Racing Engine Builders Handbook" which although was aimed a big American V8's the engineering principles are the same.
    In the book it suggested using a blunt chisel / punch to bruise the block next to the cap cut-out, i did this and retorqued everything back up and the figures are much better.
    It also stated not to measure line bearings & Bores whilst the engine was fitted to a stand as it can distort the figures.... so i pulled the block off the stand and layer it flat on my bench.

    Here are the final figures recorded showing the calculated clearances -

    [​IMG]

    Really Really happy that the block doesn't need line boring / honing. All the clearances are spot on so happy days.

    Next job was measuring the clearances between the Girdle plates and the bottom face of the block. The dimension is then used to calculate the amount of material to remove from the spacers fitted to the main bearing bolts.

    I numbered up the spacers and measured the points all round the block, then you need to subtract a little from the measured amount to account for sealant / compression etc - I removed 0.03mm from the measured values... once they are machined i'll rebuild and check the clearance again if it's too large i can adjust them a little more.

    [​IMG]

    Gonna drop in and see the machinist firm in Bridgwater we use for work, hopefully get him to machine the spacers this week then i can re-assembly next weekend.

    Today is going to consist of finishing off prepping the block for paint....i ordered this offof ebay (frost restoration.. very good seller with fast delivery) -

    [​IMG]

    Decided to go for aluminium colour as appose to the black like it was before. Think it'll look nice.

    I'll update again after a bit more progress.

    Cheers,
    Graham.
     
    #1338 grahams81, Jun 14, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  18. Applemobile

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    Nice to see you have a deadline now Graham. What front brake set up are you looking at?
     
  19. grahams81

    grahams81 Active Member

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    I'm not sure mate to be honest, i've thought about some porsche 6 pots etc but buying brackets and 2 piece discs costs a fortune. I may go for a K-sport 6-8 pot set-up.... I keep looking on ebay etc..... Some Tarox 10 pots would be nice but no way can i spend 2.5 grand on a car that cost me 600 quid lol

    Mini Update

    I managed to finally get all the factory paint & rust off the block yesterday...... Took hours and my garage is now covered in metal dust :banghead2:

    I popped the engine on a trusty Workmate and sprayed the POR Metal prep stuff on.... Kept it wet for 30 mins as per the instructions.

    [​IMG]

    I washed it off with clean water and using some thin pipe cleaner brushes i bought cleaned out all the oil passageways in the block. I then dried it quickly using compressed air. I was quite surprised that the Metal prep had done to the metal -

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I thought it was surface rust but it didn't clean or rub off.... So i guessed its the coating it puts on the metal.

    After the first coat of POR15 engine enamel -

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Like most paints its sold under the false selling of "only one coat required" but to get it looking good would have resulted in loads of runs.... So i put it on quite thinly.

    After second coat -

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    So the block is looking pretty now, and all the passageways are nice and clean.... I oiled the bearing surfaces / bores when i was done painting to stop and metal worm starting.

    Oh i also managed to get my Girdle spacers machined last week for free so happy days.

    Gonna try and get the bottom end all finished and re-assembled next weekend.

    Thanks,

    Graham.
     

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