hybrid k04 turbos jbs backdraft Turbo Dynamics how do they compare?

[George S3]

Hi

Just wanted your thoughts on the K04 hybrids that are out there i have seen alot of happy people with them but how do the company's compare on performance?

I haven't seen the spec on JBS K05 or backdrafths hybrid K04
But have seen the Turbo Dynamics info:

MD421 Modified compressor housing inlet, C.N.C re-profiled compressor cover for high flow
compressor, 2283 Spec “Billet Aluminium” Lightweight Compressor Wheel. modified
seal plate, 360 degree thrust bearing, K04 Large trim left hand thread turbine wheel with
lightening of turbine wheel for faster ‘spool up’, C.N.C. modified turbine housing for
higher flow, up-rated twin turbine seals, 0.8 Bar up-rated actuator. Other ‘blueprinting’
modifications. APPROX 340-360 BHP Max recommended boost pressure 24-26 PSI.

which sounds like its made up when it comes to the BHP
but the work sounds good jbut is the same work is carried out in all companys?

Regards
George

 

[jonathanp]

I have the JBS05 on mine spec is below

Modified compressor housing inlet
C.N.C re-profiled compressor cover for high flow
350bhp capable “billet” custom compressor wheel
Modified seal plate
360 degree performance thrust bearing
Hybrid K04 large trim left hand thread turbine wheel
Lightening and balancing of turbine wheel for faster ‘spool up’
Modified turbine housing
Up-rated twin turbine seals
Cryogenically treated components
10psi wategate actuator set up with the option to upgrade


Not sure how this compares to the other hybrids. Just recently fitted an EBC to try and get better control of boost (was running up to 34PSI on the remap ) still can't hold more than 17PSI at high revs though. Be interesting to see if the other hybrids are the same.

 

[George S3]

I have the JBS05 on mine spec is below

Modified compressor housing inlet
C.N.C re-profiled compressor cover for high flow
350bhp capable “billet” custom compressor wheel
Modified seal plate
360 degree performance thrust bearing
Hybrid K04 large trim left hand thread turbine wheel
Lightening and balancing of turbine wheel for faster ‘spool up’
Modified turbine housing
Up-rated twin turbine seals
Cryogenically treated components
10psi wategate actuator set up with the option to upgrade


Not sure how this compares to the other hybrids. Just recently fitted an EBC to try and get better control of boost (was running up to 34PSI on the remap ) still can't hold more than 17PSI at high revs though. Be interesting to see if the other hybrids are the same.

Is 34 psi to much who mapped it?
Why cant you hold more than 17psi?
How does it feel on the car did you fit anyothaer parts with it?

Regards
George

 

[jamiebennett81]

I have the JBS05 on mine spec is below

Modified compressor housing inlet
C.N.C re-profiled compressor cover for high flow
350bhp capable “billet” custom compressor wheel
Modified seal plate
360 degree performance thrust bearing
Hybrid K04 large trim left hand thread turbine wheel
Lightening and balancing of turbine wheel for faster ‘spool up’
Modified turbine housing
Up-rated twin turbine seals
Cryogenically treated components
10psi wategate actuator set up with the option to upgrade


Not sure how this compares to the other hybrids. Just recently fitted an EBC to try and get better control of boost (was running up to 34PSI on the remap ) still can't hold more than 17PSI at high revs though. Be interesting to see if the other hybrids are the same.

who "fed" you that shopping list for a hybrid turbo?

 

[jonathanp]

lol, pulled straight off the original JBS05 thread.

Running custom code phase 3, full throttle anything over 3k rpm and it was going over 25PSI on my gauge (max reading). Recently fitted a HKS EVC 6 to get an accurate reading and this showed it going to 34PSI.

HKS fully plumbed in now and I've set the boost to 20PSI but over 5.5k it'll drop to around 17PSI. I think this is probably down to back pressure or not enough pre-load on the wastegate

 

[Feel]

Ferk me Jonno, 34 psi is 2.34 bar... was it phase 3 mapped with the JbS05? Diesel MAP sensor? Keep an eye on your MAF. 17psi sounds like wastegate pre-load to me, but Mitchy will know better.

Seems daft to get a hybrid, then wind the boost down, though

 

[jonathanp]

yeah little bit scary as I was told the turbo is only rated to 2 bar. Hence I fitted the HKS boost controller to bring it down.

Yeah its phase 3 mapped with JBS05 and standard map sensor. I think its the nature of the turbo it spools up so quick the ECU doesn't have time to react and bring the boost down

 

[jamiebennett81]

yeah little bit scary as I was told the turbo is only rated to 2 bar. Hence I fitted the HKS boost controller to bring it down.

Yeah its phase 3 mapped with JBS05 and standard map sensor. I think its the nature of the turbo it spools up so quick the ECU doesn't have time to react and bring the boost down

not the case chief

in that sense, the map is then "spiking"

it should be progressive, which would allow for more sustained boost over a prolonged period

 

[Feel]

yeah little bit scary as I was told the turbo is only rated to 2 bar. Hence I fitted the HKS boost controller to bring it down.

Yeah its phase 3 mapped with JBS05 and standard map sensor. I think its the nature of the turbo it spools up so quick the ECU doesn't have time to react and bring the boost down

2 bar is still nice, but I bet 2.3 was fun.

That overshoot is the problem Sie always had (I'm sure you remember), in my mind it's different from normal spiking. I think I remember reading that it's a characteristic of compressor heavy turbos.

Wonder what JBS would've done for you if it lunched itself at 0.34bar over rated boost.

 

[ibizacupra]

not the case chief

in that sense, the map is then "spiking"

it should be progressive, which would allow for more sustained boost over a prolonged period

actually.. it is spiking beyond what the map could control in this instance.. request is nothing like what its physically doing. for whatever reason this particular map has not controlled the spikey delivery inherant in this hardware.

 

[ibizacupra]

I know of a hybrid which has spat off one of its CNC comp wheel blades which sounds bad. excessive spool/overspeed like 32psi boost clearly is would be a likely cause of such a failure.
I dont believe there was warranty on this failure on the one I heard about.

(no I wont name it on here)

 

[JBS Sales]

2 bar is still nice, but I bet 2.3 was fun.

That overshoot is the problem Sie always had (I'm sure you remember), in my mind it's different from normal spiking. I think I remember reading that it's a characteristic of compressor heavy turbos.

Wonder what JBS would've done for you if it lunched itself at 0.34bar over rated boost.

Im sure 2.3 bar was more than fun

The characteristics behind a K04 spiking that hard and quickly is down to what modifications are carried out to the compressor wheel,turbine wheel and also the compressor cover.

The fact it was making 0.34bar more than max recomended and also that it was spiking higher than the software request would indicate the possibility of a small issue on the vehicle,if jonathanp would like us to investigate the issue we would be more than happy to book him in

Leigh

 

[Feel]

Well spotted, Leigh. Sorry for being "naughty", it was meant to get a rise

There you go JP, can't say fairer than that...

 

[jamiebennett81]

actually.. it is spiking beyond what the map could control in this instance.. request is nothing like what its physically doing. for whatever reason this particular map has not controlled the spikey delivery inherant in this hardware.

well that told me

 

[JBS Sales]

Its ok Phil,thought id clear that up before every one jumped on the bandwagon.

We do try

Leigh

 

[ibizacupra]

well that told me

no worries..
It did'nt spike like it does now on its previous iteration of lower power/lower boost software, so I think software and time mapping it will tame it down. Also with external EBC on it, it does not spike, so the mechanicals (excepting N75 might be possible) would appear to be able to be controlled. external EBc using its own solenoid typically, hence N75 comment.

 

[jonathanp]

Im sure 2.3 bar was more than fun

The characteristics behind a K04 spiking that hard and quickly is down to what modifications are carried out to the compressor wheel,turbine wheel and also the compressor cover.

The fact it was making 0.34bar more than max recomended and also that it was spiking higher than the software request would indicate the possibility of a small issue on the vehicle,if jonathanp would like us to investigate the issue we would be more than happy to book him in

Leigh

Boost is under control now with the HKS. My main concern is that I need to get the map finished in terms of fueling and timing. I think the issue with it not holding boost might be down to back pressure pushing the wastegate open. The only time it will hold more than 1.2 bar is if the boost is set to spike to around 1.8 bar then it will slowly reduce down to around 1.4 bar at the redline. It would be nice to get the turbo to hold the boost at a steady level throughout the rev range but I understand this may not be possible unless the wastegate is adjusted.

Leigh I'll give you a call this afternoon to discuss getting the CC3 finished