Immobiliser / Key

[Hels1976]

Hello All.

I've been reading all the previous posts regarding immobilser issues and to say the least I am now quite confused
Last summer my immobiliser started kicking in when I started the car which some times would leave me stranded for up to 2 hrs until it decided to work. I took it took an auto electrian who removed the chip from the key and placed it near the sensor in the ignition barrel (???) and that seemed to have resolved the issue up until last week when I had taken the car into the garage for an engine management light issue.

Is that just coincidence?

Luckily the 3 times i've had this issue this week I've only had to wait 15 mins for the problem to rectify itself.

I'm open to suggestions on where to look next for a solution. I'm rather loathed to take it to the dealer as I cannot afford a mortgage to pay their prices and from what I have been reading they dont know what they're doing on most cases and are stabbing in the dark themselves.

Thanks
Helen

 

[Muttley]

Immobiliser problems can be difficult to deal with as it's a security system.

If I understand you correctly, your auto electrician has left the immobiliser chip fixed in the car, next to the ignition key barrel? If so, this has negated the security of the immobiliser and makes the car more easily stealable, although nobody will be able to tell unless the transponder chip's in plain view.

The first thing I'd suggest is to have the fault codes read, either at a garage with diagnostic equipment or using a decoder or software such as VCDS, which runs on a laptop and emulates the diagnostic machine. A cable to connect to the car's diagnostic port is also needed. There's a VAGcom section to the forum below on which you can ask if there's someone near you with software who's willing to come and help you.

Once you have the fault codes you can make a good guess at the fix needed - which is what all these on-board diagnostics are for in the first place.

The immobiliser transponder is normally in the forepart of the key, next to the blade. The transponder is energised by a coil wrapped round the end of the ignition lock, so it is right next to the transponder chip when the key is in the lock. I can't see how removing the transponder and sticking it to the car could get it any closer, unless it's been stuck to the ignition lock face itself, in plain view. The read range of the coil is intentionally very low, to make it harder to fool or to read from outside.

If I had to guess, I'd bet on the immobiliser reading coil being faulty. It's a separate item from the ignition lock, as the coil itself is not coded, it only energises and then reads the code from the transponder chip. The coil is not too difficult to replace, but get the fault codes read first, so as to track down the cause and make sure it is the coil.

 

[Hels1976]

Thanks :0)

Yep you understand correctly he has left the trasponder chip in the car but I had not noticed whether its in plain view or not as tbh I didnt look as it solved the problem (for short time at least!), I will check that out this morning

I'll look up the VGAcom section a little later and see what help I can find there.

Thanks again :0)

 

[Faceless]

Have you perhaps considered it isnt an issue with the car Immobiliser itself, but an issue with your Remote/Key, which might be defective / that is affecting the car immobiliser when its close enough?

Leave the Immobiliser keyfob at home for a few days and just use the Spare key (to unlock/lock the doors etc and drive the car), and see if the issue goes away then. However is close to £200 for a brand new Key/Fob from SEAT plus the programming.

 

[Hels1976]

Managed to get the computer read and it came up with the following.

01128 - immobiliser pick up coil (D2) intermittent
01176 - key signal too low intermittent

from that it sounds like a combintation of both issues mentioned, right?

 

[Muttley]

Using the Ross-Tech wiki to interpret the fault codes
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page


01128 - Immobilizer Pickup Coil (D2)
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/01128

Possible Symptoms

Immobilizer Warning Light flashing
Immobilizer active (Engine shuts OFF after 2-3 Seconds)

Possible Causes

Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Immobilizer Pickup Coil (D2) faulty
Immobilizer Pickup Coil (D2) faulty
Immobilzier Control Module faulty

Possible Solutions

Check Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Immobilizer Pickup Coil (D2)
Check/Replace Immobilizer Pickup Coil (D2)
Check Measuring Value Blocks (MVB)

Special Notes

Pickup Coils for Immobilizer 2 and 3 Systems should read ~23.5 Ohms.


01176 - Key: Signal too Low
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/01176

Possible Symptoms

Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) ON

Possible Causes

Immobilizer
Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Immobilizer Reader Coil faulty
Immobilizer Reader Coil faulty
Immobilizer Transponder in Key faulty OR incorrect Transponder in Key


Possible Solutions

Immobilizer
Check Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Immobilizer Reader Coil
Check Key Immobilizer Transponder Status
See Measuring Value Blocks (MVB)
Check/Renew Immobilizer Key Matching
Check/Replace Key



Both faults strongly indicate the reading coil as the problem.

As faceless suggested, one other possibility is the key or the transponder itself. If you have a spare key, try using that to see if the problem goes away. If it does, then it's a transponder problem (fairly rare) and you need a new transponder.

They can be bought separately, but not from a dealer who has to replace the key. eBay is the usual source, I'm told. Registering the transponder with the car's immobiliser system can sometimes be done with VCDS, if you have the Secret Key Code, a four-digit code, that should come on a plastic tag attached to the keys when you got the car.

If the problem remains with either key then I'd change the coil. It's a separate item with its own wiring, but having never done it myself I don't know if you have to take the instrument panel off to get to where it plugs in. The immobiliser control unit is on the instrument panel circuit board.

(For some reason the Advanced Editor has stopped giving me any of the advanced functions (but only in this section of the forum), so I can't embed the URL's)

 

[Hels1976]

I'll take this info and check out the issues. I've found the spare key too so I'll give that a go.

Once problem is fixed I will post and let you know the outcome.

Thanks for all your help. :0)

 

[Hels1976]

Update....
Spare key didnt resolve the issue so I looked into getting a reader coil. They actually sent me the whole ignition barrel as the reader coid couldnt be removed. So yesterday the whole thing was replaced. I now have 2 keys 1 for the doors and 1 for the ignition....Problem still not resolved.
It has been fine for most of today until I went to leave work tonight.

On way back from parking my car, when it did eventually go after 15 mins (that is a good time), I had a thought that maybe I used teh wrong key to start it (although I am pretty sure i didn't). Too late to faff about with it now but I will try this theory in the morning but this aside and i do still have a problem what now?

Is it potentially an ECU issue? Could my battery be affecting it? as I was told I need a new one as its at 70%or something. I already knew I needed a new battery as when the immobiliser problem has arisen this last week if I tried about 4/5 times to start it, it was killing the battery when that hadnt been an issue before

Any ways I'm stressed and rambling..sorry ;-(

Nite and look forward to hearing your comments

Hels

 

[Muttley]

Sorry to take so long to respond, your new post didn't register or show up when I opened the forum.

If a new coil and key aren't making any difference, then the fault is likely to be with the immobiliser control unit, which is part of the dash circuit board. There isn't really anything else to change.

If the car's battery is capable of starting the car then it isn't likely to be affecting the instrument panel. So, not the ECU but the separate immobiliser control unit.

I suspect that it can't be changed on its own and will require the whole dash panel to be changed. The new immobiliser control unit will need to be paired with the ECU and the keys, which may all need new immobiliser transponders.

I believe it's possible to use a second-hand unit from a scrapper, as people have changed dash panels to get white dials, for instance. Coding the keys and immobiliser unit can be done with VCDS.

 

[Ally-Pally]

Hello
I have had the same problem with my Seal Leon mk1 TDi.
SORRY FOR THE LONG STORY...but its worth it
When I purchased the car it was fine.(probably because it sat on the dealers drive)
Anyway, driving the car to the DVLA (cnt remember what for) I parked it up ad normal, went in, came out and when I placed the key in the ignition to start my car the orange/yellow immobiliser key started flasnhing. I went for a while waiting for the car to "be ready to start"....it was really frustrating.
Anyway one day I was on work training, finished and went to my car and waited for over one hour and still nothing........it was hot that day so I had the doors opened while I waited...a bee flew in the car and as I moved my leg vigorously I accidently kicked the plastics under the steering wheel and this switched the flashing immobiliser key off. I turned the car over and it started and stayed on.......one day I took the clock off and played with the wires in the back....the wires must have bent and become loose and out of contact...especially when it was hot in the car, weather because of the heating or the sun....
So next time the immobiliser plays up. Turn the ignition off, tap the top of your dash, above the clock, and turn the ignition on again...see if thet sorts it...you might have to turn ignition on - off while tapping the dashboard a few times...i know its really really REALLY annoying but Ive learned to live with it...letme know if this does the trick...at least you will know what is causing it...it gave me somewhat peace of mind even thought It looks mad when people are watching me bashing the dashboard...LOL
Good Luck

 

[Hels1976]

Hi,
Funny you should mention that solution but I came across another post somewhere that suggested to hit the dash. I tried it and it worked for me

I don't have the car any more though it was becoming a bit of a money pit so I we had to part ways

 

[Sysmaint]

immobiliser light flash

Seat Toledo 1999
Solution that works for me, was to give the dash a punch. But there must be a loose connector or cable somewhere? I have cleaned plugs from the pickup coil and control unit, but it did not help.