'Interesting' noises on startup after unexpected swimming

[Caffienated]

Ok, so as you probably know we had some proper rain in the North East this weekend, maybe not as bad as Cumbria had a few weeks ago, but still Lots of Rain. On Sunday night I was trying to get home (home is on top of the NY Moors) for a flying visit, and obviously I knew the road was wet and I'd driven through a few puddles by that point. Then I turned a corner and found what can only be described as a beck that shouldn't have been there. I shifted down and nailed the revs as it was obvious I couldn't do anything about it, and hung on. It was actually quite scary - there was so much water I couldn't actually see out of the front from the splash wake hitting the screen, and I knew there was an uphill corner coming up shortly! Got through the water moving much more slowly with a monster misfire. Home was only a half mile uphill plus a quarter mile on a dirt track away, so I limped up, not daring to let the engine stall, as I wasn't sure it would restart if I did.

Once parked, ran the engine at a steady 2k plus occasional revs out to about 4k for about 15-20 minutes until the misfire went away. Everything looked ok, car restarted noisily, but at the time I was glad of a start full stop. Since checked engine oil and alternator charging - charging is fine, startup volt drop is fine and oil still looks nice and clean and oily, and has no sign of water.

It's been extremely cold since, but even so, I have a problem with starting now.

Basically; I put the clutch in and turn the key (tend to wait for the fuel pump to stop before ignition) and the thing lurches and rattles to starting like a knackered diesel with half the glow plugs missing on a snowy day. It does start on the first attempt, but with one heck of a rattly noise that wasn't there before.

Point 2: gear selection has become more awkward - frequently need to double declutch when cold expecially. This is also new behaviour. The selection was near perfect, remarkably so for a 130k+ car.

Point 3: no exhausty blowy noises, but lots of rattling at low speeds that wasn't there before from underneath. I assume this is probably a cat heatshield I've dislodged.

Overall, I was thinking in terms of maybe I'd got water into the gearbox, that was freezing, but a mate has ridiculed this, and suggested that I possibly have a warped clutch plate from lots of cold water on a warm clutch.

What does anyone else think? I didn't really want to have to take this one apart so soon...

 

[Caffienated]

Okay, the plot thickens! Last night, car didn't start first time, gave general impression of a flat battery. Started second time, but clock and trip were reset. MFA unaffected. Did the same this morning.
Apparently it did this to my brother a couple of months ago, and he took it straight to his mechanic cos he thought it was the beginning of a head gasket failure. He had one go at 85k that ended with the engine in hydraulic lock... Compression, leak down, observation with plugs out all showed a healthy head gasket.
What i'm wondering now after reading about, is - what're the chances it's a coil pack about to let go, coupled with nasty old gear oil?
Thanks!

 

[Caffienated]

After even more thought, given the symptoms of temporary total power outage, I'm wondering if it isn't more likely to be something as simple as an engine earth or poor connection in the region of battery>solenoid>starter... Hopefully it'll hold together til Sunday when I can heave the wood out of the garage and have a closer look...

Anybody else have a comment?

 

[Cupra Kid]

I would say you've probably dislodged or severely soaked some earth points, several on the block and a couple onto the chassis.

You could as you brother said have done some clutch damage as there is an inspection plug on the top of the box and it wouldn't be hard for water to get in, plus you might need to re-lubricate the gear linkage.

Final point i'd check is in the induction system just to make sure you haven't sucked any water in as the system take air in about mid point up the drivers wing so if it was very deep theres a chance some got in.

Other things which might contribute to a lumpy start are soaked/buggered crank and temp sensors.

All in all i'd say you've got a morning with a can of WD40 ahead of you and then on to more expensive things like replacing sensors which going from hot to cold so quick may be shot.

 

[twig]

i wouldn't be surprised if you do need to change the gearbod oil. i had a very similar episode in a Clio a few years back & that was all that was required. Cheap and easy job too. Def worth a shot before you start replacing the clutch anyway.

 

[Caffienated]

Thanks for the ideas! Body earths will be my first check then!
Can anyone tell me what the spec:capacity of the gear oil is? All me stuff's at home in the middle of nowhere! Is the gearbox a nice one with a drain plug, or is it knock a driveshaft out time? Afaik the gear oil is 133k old like the clutch and cable, so it's about time fro a change!
I know the shift linkage is rods with cups and balls, i assume if it needs lube it's metal cups not nylon... Copper grease ok?
Engine runs sweetly once it's going, engine temp gauge is sensible, so maybe my sensors are ok, though i guess i may have buggered the cat with a cold shock like that.
Overall feeling happier! I've got 700+ miles to drive again next week... I needs my car!

 

[Caffienated]

Oddly enough it's a Clio (182 cup) my bro's got to replace the hole on his front the ibiza left...

 

[andycupra]

i would check electrical connections, check induction pipes for water, remove filter etc. clear all evidence of water.

I would remove / check all coil packs, you could even turn it over with the plugs removed if you are concerned about water.

Gearbox is interesting, this should be sealed, you could check all linkages etc for much or dirt>?

I m ay be right in thiking there is a hole at the top of the clutch which has a plug in it? this could be a potential entry point for water?

 

[Caffienated]

That was basically what i was thinking... First time i've planned to lay me spanners on a seat... Only had the car since the 19th! Pug 205 boxes have a breather that would be a potential entry point... Don't know about ibiza yet! The clutch inspection hole shouldn't be an entry point for water to the gearbox itself... But could easily let water into a hot clutch which would be unpleasant potentially...

 

[Cupra Kid]

Gear box is easy to drain and fill, bottom drain hole and top filling hole near the drive shafts (back right hand side as you look at the car from the front), can't remember the viscosity.
Just drain and refill until it starts coming out the filling hole.

Forgot all about the cat, if you've shattered the catalyst that could be interesting.

 

[Caffienated]

It certainly hasn't collapsed internally (engine can breath), and the exhaust note's right (nice tight standard system - personal taste!) Right underneath like that was always a stupid place to put them anyway... I've killed catalysts in deep snow before too... (not that I know I've killed this one yet!). From what I can see, these days the flexi section's usually far more expensive anyway...

Economy and performance are about right still.

Slight update: I was feeling like dog doo after finishing work tonight and drove home with the heater on full and blower number 2. Much much much hotter than anything other than a Tholian would normally tolerate. Got home, and was immediately sent back out to supermarket. Car started properly. Hm. I'll reserve judgement until the morning, but maybe I had damp connections round back of fuse panel? Would be very nice if that was the case! (crosses fingers!)