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k04 Hybrid for 210/225 owners, LCR/TT/S3 etc-330bhp achieved!!

Discussion in 'Badger5' started by ibizacupra, Mar 27, 2010.

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  1. JDUB 20V

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    oakdub21@yahoo.co.uk :)
     
  2. JDUB 20V

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    Hey Bill did you manage to send me some info on this as i have not yet recieved anything bud.
     
  3. Jaycupra51

    Jaycupra51 Active Member

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    Bill is on his holidays I'm sure he will contact u when he's back :)
     
  4. ibizacupra

    ibizacupra Jack-RIP my little Friend
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    sorry no.. not before i left.. manic week, soz
     
  5. JDUB 20V

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    Dont worry, have a good hol :D
     
  6. JDUB 20V

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    Hey Bill, could you fire that price list across when you get a chance please? Thanks
     
  7. ibizacupra

    ibizacupra Jack-RIP my little Friend
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    emailed this morning
     
  8. wild willy

    wild willy Full Member

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  9. ibizacupra

    ibizacupra Jack-RIP my little Friend
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    interesting larger comp cover which allows larger inlet!

    hotside limited not compressor limited however... imho
     
  10. wild willy

    wild willy Full Member

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    The larger inlet is very desirable (you know i want you to weld a 4 inch on mine;)),
    and the 63.5mm hta compressor wheel apparantly has a flow potential of 375bhp, but i'm not too sure the worth of the 8 degrees cutback on the turbine. Do you recon this spec would be a surge monster, at 2 grand though it needs to be gold plated, I feel a phone call to Owens comming on.
     
  11. littco

    littco Guest

    The 2283 46.5mm wheel will flow more than enough for the k04!

    What owens dont tell you is its the exducer thats 63.5mm and i guess its the same sized inducer, but who knows..You can pump as much air as you want in but it still won't make any more power... And I know as I currently have a gt35 billet compressor 76mm wheel in my k04 at present and its sucks! The bigger the wheel, the more torque needed from the turbine to drive it, the rs6 turbine which currently is the largest turbine fitted to any hybrid simply can't produce the power to effectively drive a larger comp wheel. Add to that the extra lag due to increased capacity of the comp wheel and its not great...

    The 2283 sized comp wheel will flow more than enough for the rs6 sized wheel, clipped or un clipped!

    My next development will be running a larger turbine with a 2283 compressor, and then I believe we will see the limit of the k04... And should the 2283 not be up to the job then I have a larger version to add..

    Unless when the larger turbine is fitted its a miracle and unlocks bundles of free bhp then I think current levels of bhp on the k04 really are the limit... But we will find out.. Hopefully I'll be up @ Bills in the next month to put the turbo through its paces..
     
  12. wild willy

    wild willy Full Member

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    Would your other alias be beach buggy by any chance. Indeed the hot side needs to remain inproportion to its compressor size. Why though does no one adapt the cover to allow a genuine 3inch inlet into the turbo just like is available for the gt28rs and other turbos that would use an equivalent 35lb wheels etc. i appreciate that the hybrid is limited more by its hot side but by improving airflow into the compressor turbo efficiency will be improved further still.
    Out of curiosity what ingredients was used in Prawns.
     
    #552 wild willy, Feb 24, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
  13. wild willy

    wild willy Full Member

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    Taking this a step further, if your not happy with your testing, what next. By this i mean what will fill the void between hybrid and BT. The hybrid gives a nice spool with a foot in the performance camp too. What turbo is nearest in terms of size, oil/water fittings manifold and down pipe flange. Surely with all the chinese cloans on the market a casting could be made to allow a balanced hybrid to be built.
     
  14. littco

    littco Guest

    Hi,
    Yes one in the same person.

    I honestly see no need for a specific 3" inlet. What Bill has created with his billet adaptor is more than adequate, surge as a result of the turbo being too efficient at low rpm just goes to prove this and also the fact at the moment that whether you run 260grams on a maf or 290grams makes very little difference other than increasing egts. The 30grams in maf doesn't equate to 37bhp more may be 1 or 2 and then you can probably gain as much from running lower grams and more timing.

    Hotside is still a little unknown in my opinion, we know the relentless manifold made a huge improvement over stock, but are we at the limit of that now at 350bhp? Sam Bryants setup using a gt28 that can make 380 made a very good 350bhp before similar issues arose with heat, and that's on a turbine housing more than adequate to flow past that, limited in Bill opinion by the manifold. So I would imagine you'd need a larger turbine housing and larger bore manifold really to push a k04 hybrid setup further.

    K04 hybrids seem to sit quite nicely at present at 330bhp and can be pushed to 350bhp, what would be nice is if by fitting a larger turbine we can sit the hybrid nearer 350bhp or if that's not possible make it achieve a decent bhp with less effort, thus making it more reliable.

    What you have to remember is that a hybrid will spool and make boost far quicker than any gt turbo, making it far more exciting. A gt might make more power but then you have added lag etc. What I believe is the key selling point on a hybrid over a BT is the fact you can have big power and near stock spool. I hope the new turbine will continue this but make near gt28 power, the extra potential lag that might be created from the larger wheel isn't really a major stumbling point as current hybrids have to run the surge line anyway effectively de-tunning the turbo to make it function. We will see.
     
  15. wild willy

    wild willy Full Member

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    I take on board what you point out about surge, but i don't think think that surge should be taken as a given with a hybrid design.
    I'm in a unique position of running a early hybrid with no surge, flowing approx 250g/sec, (i'm looking to upgrade btw) my hybrid has only the stock turbine wheel inconjunction with a 2277 or 2280 wheel (i'll try to take pics for the people in the know to confirm).
    Is it possible to fit a turbine wheel in the hybrid with a 2283 wheel that maintains the same size relationship between the wheels used in the stock K04.
    Also if a customer wanted to experiement could you cnc the hybrid cover and arrange a 3 inch inlet, i would adjust boost delivery in a bid to reap top end gains.
     
  16. ibizacupra

    ibizacupra Jack-RIP my little Friend
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    cams cams cams... :)
     
  17. littco

    littco Guest

    Don't you just hate computers, I wrote a whole big reply and then my computer crashed!!!

    I disagree to somepoint, but only in respect to the fact that not all hybrids are equal.. I guess you'd be running a 2280 wheel in yours as a 2277 is only 2% larger and not big enough to make a huge difference to the performance over stock.. The 2280 is probably bigger enough to make a difference, and the reason you're not surging it likely to be you have a good balance..

    The 2283 run in the TFSI is matched a rs6 sized turbine anyway and although in a 2ltr makes 360bhp, boost at 2k and no surge, and thus the 2283 is perfectly matched to the rs6 sized wheel anyway.. The 2283 surges because it makes too much boost for the 1.8t and as Bill has jsut said Cams are really the ideal way to improve the VE of the engine to help, but I still think at some stage it'll surge...

    With a 3" inlet you still need the actual housing around the compressor to be within spec to the compressor wheel and the original compressor housing can do this, I think it would be easier to trim the original compressor housing down to just above the top of the compressor wheel and feather the edge then use Bills adapter cut down and tig welded into place to give your 3" inlet...Far cheaper and just as good. That could very easily be done for you... And if you want a custom built hybrid then that is perfectly achievable as well...

    You want a larger/smaller... more blades less blades compressor wheel mated to a particular turbine it can easily be done... I could in theory offer 20 different versions of a hybrid but really whats the point! However if you said I want a 2280 sized compressor wheel with a 63.5mm exducer with a rs6 turbine then I am sure I can accomodate a 1 off build... What I can't tell you is the benefit of such a setup but that's for you to find out :)
     
  18. slappy_dunbar

    slappy_dunbar FrankenTurbo

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    The older, scalloped-back RS6 rotor is slightly the better choice for surge control. The newer rotors (such as the one on the K04-064) are "full-back", meaning they have a plate across the top which serves to more effectively direct flow through the blades. That helps with spool, of course, but at the price of needing software that can steer around surge.
     
  19. wild willy

    wild willy Full Member

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    Indeed, i think i better book a slot with you in advance. ;)
     
  20. wild willy

    wild willy Full Member

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    I like the sound of that. Looking forward to what you achieve in the short term.
     

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