LED Indicators

Ian_Ibiza_FR

Guest
Guys,

You may have seen my gripe on my other post about accessing the indicator bulb on the mk4 FR130 TDI by removing the bumper.

As I only want to do this once, I am forking out for some LED indicators and side lights.

My question is, has anyone already replaced their indicators on a MK4 with LED's, and if so, was there an issue with them flashing too fast, not at all, or where they ok. (This is due to the much smaller amount of current required to power LED's).

I think I recall someone doing this on a Leon, and they cut a track on the PCB control panel for the indicators - Off the top of my head, I think this was behind the hazard warning light switch itself. Is there a similar principle for the beeza, or do I need to fit independent dropping resistors to each light?

Cheers for your help.
 

muddyboots

Still hanging around
Oct 16, 2002
5,739
1
I've just bought some LED front inidcator bulbs for mine, will try and fit them this weekend - there's not a hope in hell of changing them just under the bonnet, deffo a bumper-off job. Have got some LED sidelights too.

Will let you know if I find any issues with flash rates etc. (maybe in another thread though, so keep yer eyes open :) )
 

dmjw01

Upstanding Member
Jul 28, 2005
442
0
Woking, UK
www.dmjwilliams.co.uk
I've also been experimenting with LED sidelights, and I've just received a package with some further bulbs, one of which is intended as a reversing light but I'll try it out in the indicator too.

IMHO, the front sidelight is the hardest bulb to do because having got the cover off the sidelight cluster you can't see the sidelight - you just have to grope around with your long-nose pliers and hope for the best. The indicators, by comparison, are a piece of cake because they're lower in the cluster and you can see what you're doing.

Mind you, I'm lucky - I'm a skinny runt with arms like twigs, and slender hands and fingers. On the passenger side, I can (just!) squeeze my arm down in front of the washer filler and reach forward to the indicator cluster, although it still helps to remove the top and front off the battery cover and the headlight cluster covers so you've got access with your other hand from that direction.

I'm a pessimist, so I'm expecting that the indicators will flash at the wrong speed. If that happens, I don't feel like fitting load resistors - partly because it negates the LED's advantage of low power drain. I'd rather fit an electronic flasher unit - does anyone know where the flasher unit is, and how easy it would be to replace?

By the way, I added one of these to my order. It is such a cute product - will make a fun Christmas decoration!
 
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rear lights done, took a bit of bottle to whack the clusters hard enought to get them out tho!!!

flash rate as normal, but the dash light flashes mental!!!

front ones are not a problem, as ling as you've got small hands, or a high pain threshold.

BEWARE, THE FRONT BULBS ARE NOT THE SAME AS THE REARS.
THEY ARE THE "OFFSET PIN" TYPE, 581 I THINK
 

dmjw01

Upstanding Member
Jul 28, 2005
442
0
Woking, UK
www.dmjwilliams.co.uk
Vicky M said:
BEWARE, THE FRONT BULBS ARE NOT THE SAME AS THE REARS.
THEY ARE THE "OFFSET PIN" TYPE, 581 I THINK
Good call - I hadn't realised that they're a different fitting.

Confusingly, the SEAT manual uses different codes. It says P21W for the rear indicators, which is equivalent to 382 I think, and PY21W for the front. I had thought the "Y" merely meant it was an amber bulb, but thanks for pointing out that the fitting is different - it is indeed equivalent to a 581 from what I can tell.

http://www.ultraleds.co.uk appear not to sell an amber-coloured 581 fitting. Where did you buy your front indicator LEDs?

Edit: Ah, wait - it says you've only done your rear lights. Has anyone managed to source a suitable 581 LED for the front - must be amber and preferably wide-angle?
 
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ST03VEN

Guest
i never had to take the bumper off when i put in my philips silver indicator bulbs. My 3rd brake light comes on ever so slightly all the time since ive put in led bulbs for my rear lights, and when i brake my led side lights come on if i dont have the sidelights on already lol, ne way of fixing these problems?
 

Sam20v

Full Member
Nov 8, 2003
949
0
Dubai UAE
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Ian_Ibiza_FR said:
Guys,

You may have seen my gripe on my other post about accessing the indicator bulb on the mk4 FR130 TDI by removing the bumper.

As I only want to do this once, I am forking out for some LED indicators and side lights.

My question is, has anyone already replaced their indicators on a MK4 with LED's, and if so, was there an issue with them flashing too fast, not at all, or where they ok. (This is due to the much smaller amount of current required to power LED's).

I think I recall someone doing this on a Leon, and they cut a track on the PCB control panel for the indicators - Off the top of my head, I think this was behind the hazard warning light switch itself. Is there a similar principle for the beeza, or do I need to fit independent dropping resistors to each light?

Cheers for your help.

I have LED side repeaters on my tolly. they are InPro.....but dont pay the 27 quid on EBAY!!! i paid £18 or so from a shop in Cambridge....no probs flashing too fast they have the built in wizardry!
just take old ones out, connect wires to new ones, slot em in and hey PRESTO....had them in a couple of yrs.....no probs!
hope this helps
 

muddyboots

Still hanging around
Oct 16, 2002
5,739
1
Vicky M said:
BEWARE, THE FRONT BULBS ARE NOT THE SAME AS THE REARS.
THEY ARE THE "OFFSET PIN" TYPE, 581 I THINK
Arse - If only I'd read that earlier!!

Just spent the afternoon taking the bumper off and lamp units out, got the sidelights in, then discovered the above. I'd bought 382s. So these will go in the rear then ?
 

Nabil_T

Guest
I'm so confused, I want to put LED sidelights on my car, I have a new set of front lamps waiting to go on, can I just take the old bulbs out and put the new LED ones in? Or is there more to it than just that... Also what number bulbs do I need :S
 

Fl@pper

Back older greyer and less oilier but always hope
Jun 19, 2001
12,370
26
Gloucester
front side lights and repeater bulbs are pretty low current so LED wont effect it too much

main indicators usually need the resistor pack or better still use a flasher relay with it built in is a hell of a lot easier to fit
 

muddyboots

Still hanging around
Oct 16, 2002
5,739
1
Nabil_T said:
I'm so confused, I want to put LED sidelights on my car, I have a new set of front lamps waiting to go on, can I just take the old bulbs out and put the new LED ones in? Or is there more to it than just that... Also what number bulbs do I need :S
For the fronts, you need 501s. I just fitted these to mine: clicky direct replacement for the originals, just a b@stard to get to...

Haven't done the rears yet, but there are 4 bulbs to do at the rear, of two different types.
 

Triple D

Guest
I changed the front indicators on the headlights( not on the side of the car) with some rainbow type bulbs that look much better than the standard bulbs but still flash orange when used. They were quite expensive though( £18 but got them for £13 through a company that uses us at work). They were a right biatch to fit but didn't have to take the bumper off. I managed to squeeeeze my arm down each side but did cut my hand on them little bolt things that stick up near the battery.
 

dmjw01

Upstanding Member
Jul 28, 2005
442
0
Woking, UK
www.dmjwilliams.co.uk
I've fitted one of these - similar to what muddyboots has fitted, but without the word "Xenon" in the name. It's quite good - brighter than standard bulbs but it is a very "cold" white, especially compared to the Silverstar halogen headlights I've got (which are fairly cool white as halogens go). The colour match with the LEDs is quite poor and does look slightly odd.

It's also a fairly directional light. It does shine a bit to the sides, but not quite as well as a conventional filament bulb. At the moment I'm running one of these LEDs and one of the freebies I got when I ordered the headlights. Haven't decided which I'm going to use yet. It's hard to know whether a wide-angle led would fit, because it's impossible to see the hole when you're fitting the bulb.

I agree - it is possible to change sidelights without removing the bumper, but it requires dexterity, persistence, a pair of long-nose pliers and the loss of some skin. :)

I have also been experimenting with 501 tail lights. At first, I ordered a pair of these. They weren't much good - bright, but far too directional and don't light up the reflector at all. I've now tried a pair of these wide-angle ones. The light distribution is much better, but they're a bit dim compared to the conventional bulbs. I'm going to email ultraleds and see if they can offer me some advice - so far I've been ordering red LEDs, but maybe I should be using white ones behind the red filters. I can't decide which would be brighter - maybe they'll exchange them for white ones.

I also fitted one of these as a reversing light. It works fine, and is a very cold white. Whether it gives a wide enough light remains to be seen. I also have a red version of the same bulb to try out as a fog light replacement, but frankly my knackers started freezing at this point so I went indoors to warm up again. ;)
 
david,
mine came from "warden_jp"
seller from hong kong on ebay,
i paid about 6 quid for the bulbs, then 3 quid for posting.
normally arrive in 3-5 days
have a search, his stuff changes pretty much daily.

i still need to order "581"s for the front, and all round for the pug!!
 

muddyboots

Still hanging around
Oct 16, 2002
5,739
1
dmjw01 said:
I've fitted one of these - similar to what muddyboots has fitted, but without the word "Xenon" in the name.


I have also been experimenting with 501 tail lights. At first, I ordered a pair of these. They weren't much good - bright, but far too directional and don't light up the reflector at all. I've now tried a pair of these wide-angle ones. The light distribution is much better, but they're a bit dim compared to the conventional bulbs. I'm going to email ultraleds and see if they can offer me some advice - so far I've been ordering red LEDs, but maybe I should be using white ones behind the red filters. I can't decide which would be brighter - maybe they'll exchange them for white ones.

I've got some before and after photos of my front sidelights, the new bulbs are really white now, and match my HIDs really well. The old sidelights looked really yellow in comparison. My main reason for changing though was because one bulb had gone, and I didn't fancy ever having to change them again... but unfortunately because I got the wrong indicator bulbs I will have to go through it all again :(

Glad to see someone experimenting with the rear lights, I've been wanting to do that too. I do a lot of miles, and in winter there's a lot of salt and quarry muck spray on the rural roads I use - the heat from the normal filament bulbs causes it to dry on. So I wondered if cooler running LEDs would mean less frequent light cleaning.
However, the rear lights are of 2 different types - one's a combined 21/5watt stop/tail and the other is just a 5watt tail. When the sidelights are switched on, all 4 rear filament bulbs are of equal brightness and I want to keep it that way - but I have no idea which combinations of LED bulbs will achieve that. Any ideas ?
 

dmjw01

Upstanding Member
Jul 28, 2005
442
0
Woking, UK
www.dmjwilliams.co.uk
muddyboots said:
When the sidelights are switched on, all 4 rear filament bulbs are of equal brightness and I want to keep it that way - but I have no idea which combinations of LED bulbs will achieve that. Any ideas ?
So far, I've only been experimenting with the 5-watt 501's in the tailgate, largely because I haven't summoned up the courage to yank off the light clusters in the main body yet!

I'm still trying to find an LED that works well. There are two problems with the Ibiza's tail-light units that makes it more difficult to choose an LED...
  1. The reflector is fairly shallow, so you really need a wide-angle LED (with little LED's pointing outwards) to illuminate the reflector otherwise it looks silly.
  2. The filter is plain glass (or plastic) and it doesn't scatter the light at all. So you really don't want an a bulb with multiple bright LED's pointing straight backwards, because you'll just get a single bright point of light. This doesn't look good, and might attract unwanted attention from plod. ;)

Incidentally, the hole for the 501 tail lights to go through is about 15mm or thereabouts. There is also another bulb on ultraleds that has 4 rear-pointing LEDs and 4 sideways ones, which is 19mm wide. It would almost certainly go through the hole by jer-jer-jiggling it a bit, but you're slightly constrained because the bulbs are held in a long plastic holder that also carries the reverse light or fog light. I'm not 100% sure that you'd get one of those through.

As I mentioned, I've tried one that has a single bright LED pointing backwards and four smaller LED's pointing outwards at 90 degrees. The light distribution is pretty good, but the red one that I've tried is a darker, richer red and is distinctly dimmer than the conventional bulbs. I'll see if the ultraleds bloke thinks a white one would work better, and see if he can be persuaded to exchange them.

For the "outer" tail/brake lights, again I reckon you definitely will need a wide-angle bulb, although the reflector is deeper. Ultraleds do several bulbs that might do the trick, and there's also this product, which looks like it might be great. Not cheap, though.

Once I'm happy with the inner tail lights, I'll start experimenting with the outer ones.
 
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muddyboots

Still hanging around
Oct 16, 2002
5,739
1
Thanks, looks like you've already been doing some good investigation...!

I've read conflicting info about whether it's best to use red or white LEDs behind red lenses, some say red is best, some say white. TBH my theory is that if white filament bulbs are used, you can't go wrong with white LEDs, but all the stop/tail LED bulbs I've seen seem to be red...
 
definately go for red,
red lenses will filter out any other colour, letting only red shine through.

i put some blue ones on my high level, they didn't show up at all???

white ones will appear very dull, as the red lens will filter out all the "blue" from them
 
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