Leon Cupra and E85 flex-fuel

DaRa

Active Member
Nov 21, 2019
41
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So I bought my Cupra 280 DSG a few weeks ago and it already had a Stage 1 350HP remap. Because I don't have the certificate and don't even know who did it, I'll bring it in a couple of weeks to Shifttech who always had take care of remapping my previous cars. So they will reset it to orginal, then Stage 1 remapping (to about 320 HP I would guess, no point to go higher for me nowadays, and specially because it's too much power on the front wheels imo, since most of the time my car is treading? sorry idk how to say in english) then convert to Flex Fuel E85. The last part I never did before, and I wanted to hear about the ones of you who did the conversion and might have some advises and so on.

Thanks
Cheers
 

Damo H

Remind me, what's an indicator?
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Oct 3, 2012
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So I bought my Cupra 280 DSG a few weeks ago and it already had a Stage 1 350HP remap. Because I don't have the certificate and don't even know who did it, I'll bring it in a couple of weeks to Shifttech who always had take care of remapping my previous cars. So they will reset it to orginal, then Stage 1 remapping (to about 320 HP I would guess, no point to go higher for me nowadays, and specially because it's too much power on the front wheels imo, since most of the time my car is treading? sorry idk how to say in english) then convert to Flex Fuel E85. The last part I never did before, and I wanted to hear about the ones of you who did the conversion and might have some advises and so on.

Thanks
Cheers
Can't help on the fuel conversion, but most Stage 1 remaps get to 350, so I'm assuming if you only want 320 I'm assuming it will be a custom tune?
 

Damo H

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What do you mean by Treading? Do you mean Wheel hop? If you mean wheel hop, keep the 350 hp and do the following:

Decent tyres - Michelie PS4S or Goodyear Eagle F1 Super Sports
Uprated lower engine mount - An insert will help, but a lot of people go for the full replacement bush by Powerflex or even a full lower engine mount by Revo.
 
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DaRa

Active Member
Nov 21, 2019
41
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Wheel hop?
After a quick search on google and youtube it seems that this is what I mean yes. In D/S 1 I can deal with it, but in D2 D3 or even D4 if a bit rainy I consider that something is wrong (matter of preferences).
I have decent tyres but I plan on getting better ones when this one are dead.

Thanks for all the information, I'll read up about lower engine mount and powerflex/revo solutions
 

Damo H

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Oct 3, 2012
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After a quick search on google and youtube it seems that this is what I mean yes. In D/S 1 I can deal with it, but in D2 D3 or even D4 if a bit rainy I consider that something is wrong (matter of preferences).
I have decent tyres but I plan on getting better ones when this one are dead.

Thanks for all the information, I'll read up about lower engine mount and powerflex/revo solutions
What tyres are you running? I've had Contis, Kuhmos, Michelin PSS and Michelin PS4. With the Michelins and 034 Motorsport insert, wheel hop was gone in the dry :)

But in the wet even with only 280hp and all that, wheel hop was still apparent when really on it in 2nd..
 
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DaRa

Active Member
Nov 21, 2019
41
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What tyres are you running? I've had Contis, Kuhmos, Michelin PSS and Michelin PS4. With the Michelins and 034 Motorsport insert, wheel hop was gone in the dry :)
But in the wet even with only 280hp and all that, wheel hop was still apparent when really on it in 2nd..
https://imgur.com/a/UKTnNTH
You can see the tyres in the last pictures, how would you rate them ?
And yes ofc when rainy wheel hop will happen even in D4
 

DaRa

Active Member
Nov 21, 2019
41
7
I didn't even know those were the stock ones

Is there any reason for people (in this forum at least) not choosing to convert to bioethanol ?
It seems such a good thing to do for my wallet and the planet that I am curious about the reasons
 

Nora2004

Active Member
Oct 15, 2017
176
80
I didn't even know those were the stock ones

Is there any reason for people (in this forum at least) not choosing to convert to bioethanol ?
It seems such a good thing to do for my wallet and the planet that I am curious about the reasons
Literally no parts on out stock fuel system can handle running straight e85, the most you could do is E30, but at the power level your looking to be at it would be a total waste!
 
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DaRa

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Nov 21, 2019
41
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Literally no parts on out stock fuel system can handle running straight e85, the most you could do is E30, but at the power level your looking to be at it would be a total waste!
Thanks for your answer. Because I am far from expert and the language barrier, you can check here and click on E85 or E85 Flex + to have more information about what I am about to do :
https://www.shiftech.eu/en/reprogramming/seat/leon/2013-5f-mk1/petrol/2.0-tsi-280

Now again I don't know anything about anything related to this, but I trust 100% the manager who told me that is 100% safe, and a huge money gain on the long term.

That being said I would love to have your point of view
 

Robster83

Active Member
Feb 27, 2019
17
7
Gothenburg Sweden
Literally no parts on out stock fuel system can handle running straight e85, the most you could do is E30, but at the power level your looking to be at it would be a total waste!
I'm no expert, but are you sure? I just did a remap to ~355hp on RON98, but my tuner said my duty cycle on the injectors where at 65% so lots of headroom left..
 
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DaRa

Active Member
Nov 21, 2019
41
7
I am not sure about anything related to those things. All I know is my tuner say it's the best thing to do and they have it done on hundreds of Cupra (and others) without any problem.
But even if I consider him as a friend it's still a company, that's why I would like to have you guys opinion.
In france "Sans Plomb 98" is what we all use, some use "Sans Plomb 95" but for older cars. It's about 1.50€/liter, and E85 Bioethanol is about 0.7€/liter. Even if the car will consume a bit more with bioethanol compared to SP 98 the difference is still huge

Edit : typo
 

Nora2004

Active Member
Oct 15, 2017
176
80
None of the fuel lines, lpfp, hpfp or any of the injectors can handle straight e85, they will corrode and **** themselves! The only point in running e85 would be to push more power when running big turbo swaps, but even then your gonna need roughly 30% more fuel to match what normal unleaded would give!

There's a reason why pretty much nobody in the US runs straight e85, especially for little stage 1 and 2 bhp numbers!
 
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DaRa

Active Member
Nov 21, 2019
41
7
None of the fuel lines, lpfp, hpfp or any of the injectors can handle straight e85, they will corrode and **** themselves! The only point in running e85 would be to push more power when running big turbo swaps, but even then your gonna need roughly 30% more fuel to match what normal unleaded would give!

There's a reason why pretty much nobody in the US runs straight e85, especially for little stage 1 and 2 bhp numbers!
Thanks for all those great information, I'll double check, tyvm
 

Robster83

Active Member
Feb 27, 2019
17
7
Gothenburg Sweden
None of the fuel lines, lpfp, hpfp or any of the injectors can handle straight e85, they will corrode and **** themselves! The only point in running e85 would be to push more power when running big turbo swaps, but even then your gonna need roughly 30% more fuel to match what normal unleaded would give!

There's a reason why pretty much nobody in the US runs straight e85, especially for little stage 1 and 2 bhp numbers!

I would like to break it down into smaller bits. The first bit is why. It was stated above. Its not to use a massive turbo and huge gains but for fuel cost. The second bit is we have different fueling systems in EU, we have port and direct you have only direct, this could be a contributing factor why US seldom use E85, as you stated, in the US you may need to swap out everything and that is not worth it unless you are going for big power.

I have read about E85 corroding the fuel lines/system but I lack info on these cars. Do you have any first hand experience or can link me to more info? I am not trying to put you on the spot, I just genuinely want to know.

30% more fuel is pushing it, but may be doable we are looking at 86% injector cycle.
 
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Nora2004

Active Member
Oct 15, 2017
176
80
I would like to break it down into smaller bits. The first bit is why. It was stated above. Its not to use a massive turbo and huge gains but for fuel cost. The second bit is we have different fueling systems in EU, we have port and direct you have only direct, this could be a contributing factor why US seldom use E85, as you stated, in the US you may need to swap out everything and that is not worth it unless you are going for big power.

I have read about E85 corroding the fuel lines/system but I lack info on these cars. Do you have any first hand experience or can link me to more info? I am not trying to put you on the spot, I just genuinely want to know.

30% more fuel is pushing it, but may be doable we are looking at 86% injector cycle.
I'm in the UK so also have MPI, the LPFP will need to be changed as it will not work with e85 for longer than a few hours! There is also a debate on the life of the DI injectors handling e85 for long periods of time, the port injectors will but they will need cleaning very often! Then your going to have to factor in the extra fuel your going to be burning compared to the saving made when first buying, running e85 absolutely kills fuel economy! Don't forget about the extra water absorption as well, but the biggest issue in my eyes is the oil mixing with it, when it does it creates a tar like substance far different from what normal petrol will do! The point I'm making is its simply not worth the effort or problems it can cause unless you actually need the positives from from it, like big power!
 
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DaRa

Active Member
Nov 21, 2019
41
7
So I am about to do the conversion on my dear new Cupra and it has a relatively high price, so trust me when I say that I only want to have feedback from you guys, and I have absolutely no knowledge on those topics.
All I know is : my tuner have convert hundreds of Cupra with absolutely no bad impact or any problem whatsoever. I know it's not a big enough sample to draw any conclusion, but if the same car than mine have been converted to E85 and drive 100.000 km without any problem, it's a good information to have
 

Nora2004

Active Member
Oct 15, 2017
176
80
So I am about to do the conversion on my dear new Cupra and it has a relatively high price, so trust me when I say that I only want to have feedback from you guys, and I have absolutely no knowledge on those topics.
All I know is : my tuner have convert hundreds of Cupra with absolutely no bad impact or any problem whatsoever. I know it's not a big enough sample to draw any conclusion, but if the same car than mine have been converted to E85 and drive 100.000 km without any problem, it's a good information to have
You need to know if he is going to run you on a straight mixture of e85 or a blend of unleaded and e85, a blend will be fine, but your asking for trouble running just straight e85!
 
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