LEON FR 170 TDI the dreaded white smoke on tickover!

[Shaun Wright]

hi all,i have the dreaded white smoke on tickover that seems to be common,car had recently had a new cambelt kit fitted before i bought it,and lots of people said on here it might be timing?,so i have just had another new cambelt done and the timing sorted(it was out by about half a tooth somehow!!??).the person who has done it for me has done my cambelts for about 20 yrs,so im confident its now spot on,but i still have the white smoke if left ticking over for about 10 mins,upon driving it will then kick out clouds of white smoke for a couple of mins then clear.
keep seeing that it may be the 'cam timings' ?,but they are locked in position with the timing pins so how could these be out?.

how can i check the cam timings?,and more importantly does anybody know how they are actually adjusted??,i thought it was by undoing the 3 bolts on each sprocket and moving them?,but been told by someone that wouldnt make a difference to cams,but would put the main timing out.

could somone PLEASEclarify how the cam timings are adjusted,and to what?.
getting desperate a bit now and dont want to keep chucking money at it if it might be something simple??.

thanks all.

 

[Sturtz1987]

Shuan I've had similar problem. I did my cam belt my self and didn't know anything about these camshaft timings. I have had nothing but grief but through trail and error I have finally got rid of the smoke.

Firstly I would ask you mechanic to check the timing once again to be 100% sure as locking the engine off is bit of a pain, feels like it is locked off but not properly.

Do you have access to vag com? To set the torsion value for your inlet cam you will use block 4 to see where torsion value is, this is the tricky bit though as I never found out what the setting needed was. I did it through a lot of trial and error. The camshaft pulley just needs loosened and rotated ever ever so slightly, once you've tighten it all back up, start it up, click the block 4 in vag com/engine, click turbo button up top left(it kinda increases frame rate as such). Since I didn't know or find setting I used data for my own point of reference, moving value about 0.2° at a time until found a sweet spot.

Then I did the exhaust cam. After some research I found that it kinda puts a final load on the injectors if I remember correct, that was the big killer for my mpg. I couldnt get above 37mpg. You can roughly check this I think with measuring block 15 by monitoring fuel per hour(apparently but I didn't really think that worked). Again I used trail and error, with camshaft pulley bolts towards front of pulley sprocket I had terrible mpg and all my power at high rpm but would nearly cut out when pulling away. Then I moved it back so 3 pulley bolts were towards bulkhead site of the slot and got my mpg and lower down power back.

Since then I've put an Xmans hybrid turbo on so crazy laggy now anyway and still need map adjusted.

That's just my experience, I don't know if yours will be the same. If I can help or you need any pictures, give me a shout

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[Shaun Wright]

Shuan I've had similar problem. I did my cam belt my self and didn't know anything about these camshaft timings. I have had nothing but grief but through trail and error I have finally got rid of the smoke.

Firstly I would ask you mechanic to check the timing once again to be 100% sure as locking the engine off is bit of a pain, feels like it is locked off but not properly.

Do you have access to vag com? To set the torsion value for your inlet cam you will use block 4 to see where torsion value is, this is the tricky bit though as I never found out what the setting needed was. I did it through a lot of trial and error. The camshaft pulley just needs loosened and rotated ever ever so slightly, once you've tighten it all back up, start it up, click the block 4 in vag com/engine, click turbo button up top left(it kinda increases frame rate as such). Since I didn't know or find setting I used data for my own point of reference, moving value about 0.2° at a time until found a sweet spot.

Then I did the exhaust cam. After some research I found that it kinda puts a final load on the injectors if I remember correct, that was the big killer for my mpg. I couldnt get above 37mpg. You can roughly check this I think with measuring block 15 by monitoring fuel per hour(apparently but I didn't really think that worked). Again I used trail and error, with camshaft pulley bolts towards front of pulley sprocket I had terrible mpg and all my power at high rpm but would nearly cut out when pulling away. Then I moved it back so 3 pulley bolts were towards bulkhead site of the slot and got my mpg and lower down power back.

Since then I've put an Xmans hybrid turbo on so crazy laggy now anyway and still need map adjusted.

That's just my experience, I don't know if yours will be the same. If I can help or you need any pictures, give me a shout

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HI Sturtz 1987,thanks for the reply,at last someone who has actually done it and makes sense!.
was yours also white smoing after leaving ticking over for 5-10 mins,then drive off with a big cloud of white smoke until it cleared a few mins later?.also did yours run lumoy when it started to smoke etc?.mine drives fine,plenty of power,smooth enough and pulls like a train,just cant stop it smoking when ticking over like i said.
my mate who did the new cambelt has double checked it and swears its 100% spot on,where as before he did it it was nearly a tooth out and could get the locking pins in.since the belt has nbeen done it does run a bit better,smoother and seems to pickup quicker,but the actual smoking on tickover seems worse now.
i am asking around to get hold of vcd's at the moment,i presume it cant be done without it?.id like to know what my cam timings are at the moment,and also if possible check to see if an injctor is weeping fuel when ticking over??.

does the engine have to be stone cold when adjusting the cams??,and when you say the cam bolts to the back etc do you mean you are turning the sprocket clockwise(away from the bolts) and vice versa when you say bolts to the front?.
if i marked a pen line on the cam main bolt and across to the sprockets,could i then slacken the 3 bolts and turn it slightly off the line a bit at a time etc?.i presume to far could cause damage,or it wont start etc??.when you found the 'sweet spot' did it imidiatley stop smoking and running lumpy??.

thanks agian for trying to help,anything and everything is apprieciated ,the more i ask around,the more different things people keep telling me!,injectors,turbo,timing,tandem pump,etc etc etc.i dont fancy spending hundreds on things it doesnt need.
it seems hundreds of people have had the same problem,but no one has explained properly what they did to cure it,or what the problem is.its very frustaing.
cheers Shaun

 

[Sturtz1987]

Shuan I will get out to the car and get some pictures and try my best to do some sort of guide on Sunday as to how I managed to get to the bottom of it. Crazy busy at work just now.

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[Shaun Wright]

Shuan I will get out to the car and get some pictures and try my best to do some sort of guide on Sunday as to how I managed to get to the bottom of it. Crazy busy at work just now.

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ok no problem,dont rush mate if your busy,i can wait,thanks a lot

 

[Shaun Wright]

hi mate,ive managed to sort it,had a mate with vagcom do a scan,torsion values should be 0.6-1.0......mine was something like 1.86.
so played about with the cam timings,and 3rd attempt seemed to get it spot on!,no more smoke,smoother running,like a different car!.

just put another post up,cos now i have a different problem with rough running and loads of smoke since resealing the inlet manifold etc!...gutted....neverending :-(.
thanks for the help though mate .

 

[MW05]

I would never have guessed timing could produce white smoke. I thought white smoke was water being burnt in the fuel mixture, ie head gasket failure...

 

[Sturtz1987]

I would never have guessed timing could produce white smoke. I thought white smoke was water being burnt in the fuel mixture, ie head gasket failure...

White smoke on a diesel can also be fuel that us not burnt completely.

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[MW05]

Oh NO!
I thought unburnt fuel was black?
My head can't take this.
I need a Bud!
(or three...)

 

[Sturtz1987]

Oh NO!
I thought unburnt fuel was black?
My head can't take this.
I need a Bud!
(or three...)

Black smoke is when the Air to Fuel mix is rich so there's to much fuel and not enough air. Or for example if you've a boost leak, the ecu knows the air came into engine through Maf sensor so it fires some fuel in but if your boost isnt reaching the engine the fuel is still injected so won't have air to burn.

White smoke from a diesel suggests that the diesel is not getting a complete burn. Could be anything from water in fuel, low compression on engine, fuel pump getting starved and not having the fuel pressure when it needs it, also fuel pump timing, then if the timing itself is out the valves wouldn't be timed properly so fuel getting injected at wrong times and going into exhaust.

That's what info I was led to believe when I was having some white smoke issues

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[adon30]

This appeared in a different sub section so probably why I missed it when looking for info to help my fault.

My problems have also began after a cam belt change but think it is fuel pump releated. This last week (due to the cold) I have noticed a small amount of smoke out the back when I boot it so could that indicate possible fuel starvation?? or fuel burn issue?? I get a noise that the garage believes is down to the fuel pump.

My original post on my problem is here:
https://forums.seatcupra.net/index.php?threads/noisy-after-cambelt-water-pump-change-2-0tdi.446842/

I'm sure I've tried to check the torsion values but couldn't find them in VAGCOM. It has also been back to the garage to recheck the cambelt work was correct. So not suspecting the cam positions in my case

 

[Sturtz1987]

This appeared in a different sub section so probably why I missed it when looking for info to help my fault.

My problems have also began after a cam belt change but think it is fuel pump releated. This last week (due to the cold) I have noticed a small amount of smoke out the back when I boot it so could that indicate possible fuel starvation?? or fuel burn issue?? I get a noise that the garage believes is down to the fuel pump.

My original post on my problem is here:
https://forums.seatcupra.net/index.php?threads/noisy-after-cambelt-water-pump-change-2-0tdi.446842/

I'm sure I've tried to check the torsion values but couldn't find them in VAGCOM. It has also been back to the garage to recheck the cambelt work was correct. So not suspecting the cam positions in my case

The timing on the pulleys on the belt can be spot on but the actual pulley to camshaft can be adjusted using the 3 x 13mm bolts on the vernier style pulleys. I did my belt and pump earlier thus year and didn't take jotr of my settings before so I've had grief on and off since then.

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