Leon or other hot(ish) hatch

[Jonboy582]

Ok I need advice, every time I think I have made a decision I then have something else thrown into the mix.

Pretty much I had decided, I'm going to get another leon in spring but this time make it an FR. Then I had the choice between petrol and diesel. Obviously the diesel would not handle quite as well as the petrol due to a heavier engine. But the diesel has better MPG and mid range acceleration. And MPG is pretty important in today's financial climate and considering I don't earn much.

So now I am thinking maybe get a cheaper car, so looking at the Clio sport 197. Are there any others I should look at?

Clio is a little bit quicker 0-60 as standard. But if I chip the FR I can get it to around 250bhp (265 allegedly). Now will it be able to handle this much power through the front wheels?

I am thinking of doing some track days but don't want to modify my car.

Are there any other cars in this range that come pre built good for a track. What should I choose lol?

Jon

 

[Al]

Megane R26. Sorted.

 

[noktoto]

Obviously the diesel would not handle quite as well as the petrol due to a heavier engine.
Jon

Petrol FR is a bit heavier than TDI one:

http://www.seat.com/static/su/com/SEAT/site/leonfr/techtables/en/2_0_tdi_dpf.html
http://www.seat.com/static/su/com/SEAT/site/leonfr/techtables/en/2_0_tsi_200.html

So the TDI engine isn't rather heavier than TFSI one.

 

[Poverty]

Ok I need advice, every time I think I have made a decision I then have something else thrown into the mix.

Pretty much I had decided, I'm going to get another leon in spring but this time make it an FR. Then I had the choice between petrol and diesel. Obviously the diesel would not handle quite as well as the petrol due to a heavier engine. But the diesel has better MPG and mid range acceleration. And MPG is pretty important in today's financial climate and considering I don't earn much.

So now I am thinking maybe get a cheaper car, so looking at the Clio sport 197. Are there any others I should look at?

Clio is a little bit quicker 0-60 as standard. But if I chip the FR I can get it to around 250bhp (265 allegedly). Now will it be able to handle this much power through the front wheels?

I am thinking of doing some track days but don't want to modify my car.

Are there any other cars in this range that come pre built good for a track. What should I choose lol?

Jon

the clio drinks petrol. Fun to drive though, and second hand available from 9 grand. FR's a year or so old are 12 grand.

 

[Jonboy582]

Petrol FR is a bit heavier than TDI one:

http://www.seat.com/static/su/com/SEAT/site/leonfr/techtables/en/2_0_tdi_dpf.html
http://www.seat.com/static/su/com/SEAT/site/leonfr/techtables/en/2_0_tsi_200.html

So the TDI engine isn't rather heavier than TFSI one.

:O OMG REALLY !!!, I was not expecting that. Will check those links out now.

EDIT: Checked the links and its only 3kg. I don't understand though either why the TSI is so heavy or the diesel is so light

 

[Jonboy582]

Megane R26. Sorted.

Just had a look good choice faster than the standard FR and cheaper than the cupra. What's being traded off for that? And strangely has more BHP than the clio and weighs a lot more yet uses less fuel :S ? Doesn't this come with an LSD as standard or am I imagining that?

And yeah Poverty, my friend just got the 197 and has new suspension and brakes on it. It sticks to the road like s**t to your shoe. But he lives on a road with potholes down it, and every one you reach you hit your head on the roof. And the fuel economy is terrible.

 

[Al]

Just had a look good choice faster than the standard FR and cheaper than the cupra. What's being traded off for that? And strangely has more BHP than the clio and weighs a lot more yet uses less fuel :S ? Doesn't this come with an LSD as standard or am I imagining that?

LSD is standard too. Fastest hot hatch round the Nurburgring by a country mile..........

 

[iSot]

LSD is standard too. Fastest hot hatch round the Nurburgring by a country mile..........

Yes and without turbocharged engine.... Yep.. Its faster than stock FR or Cupra, but who drives a stock ?

 

[Al]

Yes and without turbocharged engine.... Yep.. Its faster than stock Cupra, but who drives a stock ?

It has a 2.0 Turbo engine bud.

Takes a lot more effort to get decent numbers when tuning it however. Remap exhaust filter etc only bring it to 260-270bhp from the stock figure of about 230bhp.

 

[iSot]

It has a 2.0 Turbo engine bud.

Takes a lot more effort to get decent numbers when tuning it however. Remap exhaust filter etc only bring it to 260-270bhp from the stock figure of about 230bhp.

Outch... My mistake ... Why was I thinking that its a NA engine Yep... R26 over the FR Leon ....

 

[Jonboy582]

Yes and without turbocharged engine.... Yep.. Its faster than stock FR or Cupra, but who drives a stock ?

I will have to drive stock, as competent a driver as I am (obviously want to get better so track days will help) I am 21 and a with a modified R26 F1 I would be raped by the insurance company. If I get it they will already screw me over for £2060 per year, would hate to think when it has been modified.

Besides I have heard the build quality isn't great so upping the power too much will just make things fall off quicker. So the car costs like £1500 less than the FR but insurance is £450 more and less reliable. Hmmm which will be most financially beneficial?

 

[noktoto]

Fastest hot hatch round the Nurburgring by a country mile..........

You mean R26.R which is lighter, hardcore version of standard R26.

 

[Al]

You mean R26.R which is lighter, hardcore version of standard R26.

Yer, you are right, but the R26 is still faster round a track than all but the R26R . The main difference between the R26 and R26R is that the R26R is quite a bit lighter than the R26.

 

[iSot]

I will have to drive stock, as competent a driver as I am (obviously want to get better so track days will help) I am 21 and a with a modified R26 F1 I would be raped by the insurance company. If I get it they will already screw me over for £2060 per year, would hate to think when it has been modified.

Besides I have heard the build quality isn't great so upping the power too much will just make things fall off quicker. So the car costs like £1500 less than the FR but insurance is £450 more and less reliable. Hmmm which will be most financially beneficial?

Yep... If you have to keep your car stock, so then I would go for R26, if you prefer more speed and also which is fastest on a race track, then R26 could be your route to go... Financial side is up to you between FR - R26...

 

[Poverty]

Tuning doesnt have to be expensive insurance wise as long as you choose a mod friendly company. The renaults main set back is that its dogged with reliability issues. It is one of the fastest fwd cars in the world but its not leaps and bounds quicker than the competition. If track laptimes are your biggest concern get the megane, but if you want a better overall package go for the cupra, plus one remap later and on the public roads a megane r26 wont get anywhere near you.

over 2 grand for insurance for a 21 year old is a lot! Newish driver living in london? Next year when im 20 with 2 years ncb I can insure a cupra k1 for 2400, and thats with a crappy london postcode, and me not really looking around and getting qoutes from the specialist companies!

 

[Jonboy582]

Tuning doesnt have to be expensive insurance wise as long as you choose a mod friendly company. The renaults main set back is that its dogged with reliability issues. It is one of the fastest fwd cars in the world but its not leaps and bounds quicker than the competition. If track laptimes are your biggest concern get the megane, but if you want a better overall package go for the cupra, plus one remap later and on the public roads a megane r26 wont get anywhere near you.

over 2 grand for insurance for a 21 year old is a lot! Newish driver living in london? Next year when im 20 with 2 years ncb I can insure a cupra k1 for 2400, and thats with a crappy london postcode, and me not really looking around and getting qoutes from the specialist companies!

Well I don't have any ncb, I have been a named driver and driving a company car so have not had a policy in my name .

Also I have been looking on confused.com, I'm sure I can get the quote cheaper if I phone up and ring around. As for my post code its probably very good, I live in a small village car will be parked off road in a garage and the most crime the place has seen was 2 shed brake ins 5 years ago lol.

Ohh now you have ruined my choice again, as you say reliability is an issue. How bad exactly? is there any specific parts that go wrong? Are they cheap to replace or upgrade to parts that actually last?

 

[Poverty]

Well I don't have any ncb, I have been a named driver and driving a company car so have not had a policy in my name .

Also I have been looking on confused.com, I'm sure I can get the quote cheaper if I phone up and ring around. As for my post code its probably very good, I live in a small village car will be parked off road in a garage and the most crime the place has seen was 2 shed brake ins 5 years ago lol.

Ohh now you have ruined my choice again, as you say reliability is an issue. How bad exactly? is there any specific parts that go wrong? Are they cheap to replace or upgrade to parts that actually last?

well there was one story were a guy with a clio 172 has been waiting over a year for a new wiring loom from renault to make his car driveable and last I heard is taking renault to court over it. Then theres others where renault sport engines are letting go prematurely and cambelts snapping at 20,000 miles taking out the engine, and renault wiping their hands off the situation even though they dont recommend a cambelt change till 40,000 miles. Your best bet is to check the owners forums and see what the main grievences are.

oh well your first year will be a bit pricey, but once you have your first ncb it could drop sharply. Some insurance companies might take your company car driving experience into account, if you can get proof off your company as being a accident free driver.

 

[Foo56]

I had an 03 clio (not 172), throttle bodies went, ball joints, central locking and it leaked.. I also watched a race between clio, type r and leon cupra r (few years ago so not entirely accurate) but the clio came last, leon 1st.

I wouldn't ever buy a renault again after the problems I had, having to threaten them with court action as the warrenty ran out and a week later it fell to bits, they paid half but still cost me bout a grand. I got a mate with a 182, drive the leon mate im confident ul go for that!

 

[Al]

Interesting reading above there, and kinda backs up my thoughts on Renaults. However, bad news always goes further than praise. Look at some of the stories there have been about VAG car problems!

Nonetheless, as good as they may be, I still wouldnt have a Renault.

 

[iSot]

Agree, but for me its still a french car and that is enough