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Discussion in 'Leon Mk3 (2012-2020)' started by ReddStripe, Nov 3, 2019.
That’s that theory out the window then
Happy to trawl through part numbers if someone has access to the schematics for the engines...
Weirdly enough...my car was perfect this morning in 1 degree C temp
Only technical data available on SEAT erwin is the attached confirming that DACA is the same as DPBA and DADA is the same as DPCA.
Nothing else seems to be different in the spec SEAT are willing to reveal on their public facing side of erwin. Of course we know their will be something different. Someone must have a mate who works at a VWAG dealer who can do some digging
Hang on, hang on.....
Just come across this as well. The only other info teased out here is the type of turbo charger on each model of engine.
My purchased hour has just run out and I'd rather spend money on another car than throwing it into SEAT's coffer.
Two things that I did not know, the lower powered engines are listed as Miller Cycle, I thought both the low and high output engines would be the same, seems not. Also the lower output engine gets variable geometry turbo! I can't see that the comments about the higher output engine's turbo will mean much - maybe just the difference that existed between how the excess pressure is handled a bit like the difference between the early 1.2TSI 8V and the later 1.2TSI 16V turbos.
I'd think that there will have been changes to the internals of these engines, remember, mainly, it was only the higher output engines that got most complaints on these forums, and accordingly, the engine ECU S/W updated appeared quicker for them, and lots of people considered that it was the Miller Cycle characteristics that were leading to the rough low revs behaviour - but if it is only the low output engines that get the Miller Cycle tag, then maybe that theory goes out the window - which is probably a bit more encouraging for those with the Millar Cycle type of engines.
Try:- ifinterface.com then open CarProg2 - but as far as I have found, that only works on IOS - it used to use on Windows, but something changed.
I read on another forum skoda attributed the kangarooing symptoms to lack of torque to the alternator on cars with build dates July / August 2018 and a software patch was all that was required to fix (apparently)
Lack of torque from the engine sounds like being a good enough reason - but how that is being reported as "lack of torque to the alternator" seems a bit weird, sometimes in VW Group world, things are lost in translation to English.
I certainly enjoy reading all the theories on why these engines kangaroo. Although for my 1.5 what has bewildered me is why after the update and subsequent 200+ miles, it was kangaroo free, and then re-emerged? And why for some, the latest software update has worked fully and is holding, and for other it has not / or partially did.
It just seems so doubtful that VW thinks it can be fixed with just a simple software update, with so many other variables at play.
There really is no end in sight.
Gives us something to do in our spare time I guess, playing detective
I thought it was mostly the 130’s that were affected but it’s mentioned above about the 150’s. Doesn’t seem to be an issue from the cycle if two different ones are being used.
There’s something weird going on with the throttle that’s messing with something else...mine seems worse when coming off throttle and then back on again at low speed whereas just gentle accelerating isn’t too bad...maybe back pressure due to the gpf messing with the turbo...I’ve taken to displaying turbo boost pressure in the screen in hope it may point something out but either it isn’t sensitive enough or that’s not an issue as it’s fairly stable. Definitely some flat spots in the mapping though.
I just daren't have any updates done for fear of it messing it up even more following the mixed reports. It’s behaving a bit better on second tank of premium but may just be coincidence or the weather or simply the threat of me returning it
Be interesting (but probably unlikely) to get the engine, crankshaft, etc. numbers from affected cars...affected cars that have seemingly been fixed...cars that software hasn’t made a difference, etc. to see if the cams/other internals may be affecting results.
I started to look at the engine cycles but my understanding is the intake valves close early on both cycles rather than late and so would eliminate blow-by back into the intake manifold stalling the turbo that way and causing the pressure to fluctuate.
Is the gpf before or after the hot side of the turbo?
I may be way off the mark here if VW gurus can’t solve it but I enjoy thinking about this kinda stuff.
It's guys like you Geoff that make this forum....going that extra step...Topman.
I've been looking at the 1.0 / 1.5 as a possible replacement for my 1.6t Astra . I don't need 200hp anymore poodling around town but I also don't have any kangarooing in my Astra. I may have a look at the Ibiza 1.0 115 Fr but still like the slightly bigger Leon , if only they sort the issue out.
Back in the summer when I had the car in for diagnostics (Dealer refused to acknowledge there was a kangaroo problem for many many months) they did say the 'fuel injector rail pressure switch' needed checking, but no swap was required. So I wonder which variants of the engine did require this swap. I couldn't find a TPI for it on erwin.
Thanks pompeydave...cars are the one thing in my life (outside family) that I’ve always been fond of...good or bad I love them and I love a challenge trying to work things out and fix bits myself (where I can) whether to help myself and/or others. I don’t have the time I used to when I was younger (and before kids haha) but if I get a bit of spare time this is what I enjoy
I’m really happy with the Leon overall...I had a 2.0 diesel insignia elite before this which was fab and trouble free bar 2 glow plugs but after 68k can’t grumble...not as quick as the 200bhp Astra of yours but it was rather spacious and very comfy...Leon is an excellent replacement with one or two bits missing but then one or two other bits added so it all balanced out spec wise and I personally think they look great. I test drove an Astra 1.5T and although no kangaroo issues and strong engine you can see what my decision was...any of the cars you mention above should be decent in the right spec!
I believe the issue has been resolved on the newer (69 reg) 1.5’s (don’t quote me on that but I’m sure they are ok now) if you’re looking for a new(ish) motor.
Sound like a fairly strong candidate...I’ve run mine in eco tonight and it was slightly better again...occasional hiccup...I’ve noticed something odd with the revs now where sometimes the throttle pedal doesn’t always seem to quite equate to the same input...maybe that’s just me but I will monitor that for a few days as it’s something I thought I noticed last week but then put down to me getting used to a new car and playing with the setting so I’ll leave it in eco for a bit and see how we go.
I’m sure someone has done all this before but I can’t help myself haha...like a dog with a bone.
Been running premium unleaded (97) for almost 2 tanks now and generally running around in comfort mode due to the state of the roads near me and car seems a little happier on this than the standard petrol but problem persists to a small extent (kangaroo when cold if revs extremely low or letting off throttle in first and a bit of a flat spot in mapping). Had similar on other cars (not quite to this extent) so not overly concerned.
Dealer I bough car from have offered to have car and run diagnostics and update where necessary...however...they aren’t local and after much research and the hit and miss results from others I’ve decided that it’s not that big a problem for me to waste my life worrying about.
Apologies as I was hoping to get some sort of input/answer to help but having read many reviews and posts on many websites I’ve concluded that the time would be better spent with my kids.
Car will go in for it’s first service later this year so I’ll ask my local dealer to have a good look at it as it will still be under warranty at that stage so will let you know if anything changes or I miraculously find a resolution that SEAT/VWAG haven’t been able to.
Until then...happy hopping
When i got mine when it was new 68 plate (first of the 1.5 tsi’s) i didn’t even know the 1.5 tsi existed, it was that new in the leon the dealer only had a 1.4 tsi 125 demo, so sold me the, oh yes sir the engine will be just like this one, only better, 130 instead of 125 and much better on fuel.
so i didn’t even drive a kangaroo 1.5tsi until i collected my own leon
Can’t beat going one step forward and two back haha.
Aside coming off throttle in first I have managed to pretty much avoid the kangarooing and the drive is generally nice.
I am tempted to try the Carista app and OBD to change the throttle to direct (not sure if that’s what sport mode does) and also spoke to a local REVO centre today and they anticipate a map April/May this year so will be speaking to them and my insurer later in the year to see what the implications are and if they can sort the first gear issues.
I’ll probably end up keeping it standard but will keep you posted on any updates.
For now a fairly positive getaway from junctions and avoid coasting in first gear is seeing me straight...the rest of the car is fab and considering it was £2k under budget and £3k less than the other motors I was looking at I’m more than happy with all the features I’ve currently got Also the wife and kids are happy coz I’m treating them to CBeeBies with some of the savings and there’s a bit left over for a remap, tuning box or beer so it’s a win win (Look at me living the life of Riley...rock and roll).
Be nice to see what revo can get out of it.
i just stay away from 1st gear as much as possible and ride the clutch. Clutch is going to be smoked by the time it comes round to go back to Seat