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New Virtual cockpit

Discussion in 'Ateca' started by oykkh, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. oykkh

    oykkh Active Member

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    The virtual cockpit is now present in IAA Frankfurt in Arona FR. When is it due for Ateca?? [​IMG]

    Skickat från min SM-G950F via Tapatalk
     
  2. Tell

    Tell Full Member

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    I was taken by that when I looked at the Tiguan last year. Its available in the Karoq as an option but it does require the Plus / Columbus / Discover Pro unit of the navigation not the cheapo version that people go for in the UK on price. I guess it missed the product cycle for the Ateca FR and last year's original Ateca. I'm hoping it's going to be available on the Ateca Plus or whatever it will be called. I will spec that in as well as DCC.

    Demonstration of it on the Ateca 2018 model, 21 minutes in. For order next year, no prices worked out yet. I guess Thomas 800 euro figure was the upgrade cost from the Plus that people go for in Europe than the base navigation since the system that needs the Plus / Columbus / Discover Pro box. It plugs into it. There is an SSP that shows the setup. As demo, the 3D mapping that is only on the top of the range navigation.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=62LGicoVo5Y

    Demo of it on the Ateca's sister car the Karoq

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2f9bkVv4Vus

    The Audi SSP is on the link below. It uses the MOST connection on the Infotainment system which has remained unused on Seat cars using the Plus unit. It's an optical bus. MOST bus is used on the VW sound system with the external power amplifier.

    Http://content.datarunners.net/content/SSP/994628AG.pdf

    Let's also hope that Seat UK get off there arse on Mapcare since the option is a miniscule cost (one off 120 € for limit less upgrades for our European mainland neighbours) and Seat is now the odd one out of the VAG group in the UK on that one. No work arounds at the minute for map updates with the Plus (I'm looking but I think you need £200,000 of computer time to crack it unless someone publishes the primary key, the public keys are available). So if you commit to the virtual cockpit you are on frozen maps or shelling out astronomical upgrade costs until they stop messing about and just burn Mapcare into the navi ram. Mapcare has to be done at the factory and is locked down the same as the thief protection stuff although it was post installed in the U.S. and OZ by dealers when it was rolled out in the US. In OZ they left it off some vehicles and had to sort it out although that may have been Mib1.

    PS your picture above looks like the standard MFD but perhaps one option is to emulate that.
     
    #2 Tell, Sep 12, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  3. Tell

    Tell Full Member

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    Right well it's now appeared on the UK configurator for £400. That obviously is the display cost it mates to either the standard Navigation or the Plus. Plus 3 D mapping of buildings, different beast, more processing power than the standard unit. Reports of the implementation on other VAG cars that in the standard Navigation unit if you have the central screen up on the digital dash it drops the one on the unit. You can't have both together so your co driver who might also be the navigator doesn't get to see it. The Plus implementation should be better. Ive had zero issue with the Plus unit.

    My evidence for saying this is from a user review of the VW kit on a Golf

    https://www.carthrottle.com/post/th...y-thing-that-infuriates-me-about-my-golf-gti/

    It gets worse, as if you have the base-spec Discover infotainment system like we have, you can’t have the map on both that and the instrument binnacle. It simply won’t let you. Switch the map view to Active Info Display, and the infotainment screen goes almost completely blank, apart from a sad little compass in one corner and a few other bits (below).

    It’s as though it’s been artificially hamstrung for the sole purpose of making the optional ‘Discover Pro’ look a bit better. The Pro system is indeed better and not just for that reason, but VW has felt the need to add a gesture control system, which feels like a massive gimmick that doesn’t work all that well. But that’s another rant for another time.

    Should you decide to pop the map into Active Info Display on the non-Pro system, you then lose all visual instructions. If you turn the audio announcements off as I do (I don’t want anything interrupting Taylor Swift, obviously), all you have to go on is the little highlighted line on the screen, like you’re using an in-built sat nav circa 2003.


    They have these units on VW cars so you can play with them there.... I will when I work up the order for the Ateca "big boy" next year. I did see it on the Tiguan in 2016. The Plus unit is the Discovery Pro.
     
    #3 Tell, Dec 6, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  4. skk

    skk Active Member

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    Look at the Autogefühl video, starting from 20:57. It seems that on a SEAT you can have the nav map both on the radio display and instrument cluster at the same time.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62LGicoVo5Y
     
  5. Tell

    Tell Full Member

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    In the video the buildings have 3D projection which means it's the Plus unit (Mib2 High) which behaves in the said way, it's when the digital dash is connected to the standard unit the options are limited least in the VW form. Given it's all the same hardware and software I expect this will be carried across to Seat but we'll have to see.

    The 3D building projection in the Plus is to allow you to visually check the map and surrounding in town, I'm always pleased when I see it on the map and disappointed when I see a monument and it's not on the map. That's partly why the Mib2 High maps occupy more space due to the graphics.
     
  6. skk

    skk Active Member

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    Thanks for the info.
    But on the regular unit, I can have stavnav display on the virtucal cockpit and for example radio or other displays on the head unit?
    Looking to buy a new Leon and add the virtual cockpit as one option.
     
  7. Tell

    Tell Full Member

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    Something to lookout for on a demonstrator. I believe the Carthrottle review but you should be able to see this in a Vag dealer. If you're sitting in a demonstrator and press the Media button repeatably and can't find the "Jukebox" as input then it's the standard unit, if you find Juke box source as an option then it's Plus / Mib2 High (Discover Pro in VW naming convention). The virtual cockpit screen is driven off the side of the unit in all options. I'm not expecting 3D mapping to be on the standard unit unless it's a totally reworked unit.
     
  8. Tell

    Tell Full Member

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    Navigation System
    / 8" touchscreen
    / 3D Map display
    / High resolution colour driver’s display
    / SD card slot ×2
    / DAB (Digital Audio Broadcasting)

    Navigation System Plus
    / Includes SEAT Sound
    / 8" touchscreen
    / Dynamic route guidance with 3D map display
    and 3D emblematic buildings
    / 2nd USB port
    / 10GB hard disk drive
    / Includes space saving spare wheel (in lieu of tyre repair kit)


    It's the 3D emblematic buildings shown in the video which means the demo is on a Plus. I do have this unit which is more powerful than the standard unit running on a faster processor.
     
    #8 Tell, Dec 17, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  9. cbcdesign

    cbcdesign Active Member

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    I was told the software display for the Seat is unique to Seat so I think at this stage we will, as you said, have to wait and see what it looks like rather than speculating that its the same as the golf. It hasn't cost me any more to have it (price re-structuring cancelled out the extra £400.00 charge) so I wont be disappointed if its not as good map wise as the Navigation plus system. It's still more flexible than analogue clocks.
     
    #9 cbcdesign, Dec 18, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  10. Tell

    Tell Full Member

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    I'm sure it will be good. I've had a bit of a roller coaster ride on the subject given that I'd like to have the display assuming I go for the Ateca Plus as I call it (the one that should have the Kodiaq' s legroom). Finding that Seat UK had dropped the Navigation Plus from the configurator of the Ateca, but it's in the December 2017 price list so I think it can still be ordered.

    I don't think I would put the map display up on the dash display console, the next turning does me on the MFD with the maps shown on the 8" screen but the flexibility of the digital display would be good. So I'd order it I reckon and play with it but I suspect if I couldn't keep the speed display, plus the next turn in the middle and map, I wouldn't bother with the map and get it to display what I currently see on my Ateca :).

    Given they are all the same models between the VW, Skoda and Seat but just additional extra software which each add, but Seat doesnt add that much. I reckon the limitation will be the same on the standard Seat screen as VW, not the end of the world. I don't reckon Seat will be programming at that level. If I was in the market now I'd be looking at how it functions on VW and Skoda. If Skoda is the same then you can bet it's inherent.

    The map updates split between the standard Mib2 and Mib2 High but the updates are common (the same irrespective of brand for the standard, ditto High). The display hangs off the unit. It's going to be the firmware that dictates whether the standard unit can multitask the map display. Given Seat and Skoda follow VW that's why I reckon it's going to function as in current VWs... but we will see.

    Something to look out for when you get in the car and report back.
     
  11. Tell

    Tell Full Member

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    Ok. Another video

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x4GAQMWoS6o

    38.15 the issue is covered again that you can't display both together. These are the SD based systems not the Plus aka Discover Pro which has the 3D building relief mapping shown in the previous video. I do draw the same conclusion as the guy that the next turning display is sufficient up front and the map on the main display. Nice feature having the map up front but can you have the next turning as well. Think the screen will look crowded by that, not going to pinch and zoom on that.

    Since Seat / Skoda follows VW really don't think this issue will be fixed on the hardware for the SD based mapping system. They would need a new unit for that beyond a Mib2. Something to watch out for.
     
  12. cbcdesign

    cbcdesign Active Member

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    In the autogefuehl Leon/Ateca video Thomas specifically mentions (23:54 time stamp) that the map cannot be displayed on both the centre and dashboard screens at the same time on some VW models such as the Polo and the T-Roc so I don't think we can draw conclusions from a video on a VW T-Roc and assume it applies to the Ateca.
     
    #12 cbcdesign, Jan 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  13. Tell

    Tell Full Member

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    It's something to lookout for.... although I'm 99.9999 percent sure it will behave like the VW stock system since it's all the same equipment and software with just twigs. Apparently it can't be ordered on the Karoq at the minute in the UK but can in other countries.

    Practically I much prefer the next turn on the screen so I probably wouldn't use it although I would get the Plus which would definitely have it on both screens. My planning horizon is for the larger Seat SUV keeping my current Ateca, so the dust will have settled by then. Dare I say full map on the dash screen feels like a gimmick but currently well execute on the Discover Pro model but not on the other.
     
  14. cbcdesign

    cbcdesign Active Member

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    I would think Nav plus is available on the T-Roc though and yet they cannot have a map on each screen according to all the reviews I have seen! This is why I am not convinced 2 screen is limited to the Nav Plus only on the Ateca, I think its a software configuration issue, a choice if you will by VW not a hardware limitation as such. If it is a requirement to have Nav plus to see the map on each screen so be it, its not the end of the world as long as the map can be made to fill the driver screen.

    I cannot agree with the notion of the map on the driver screen as a gimmick. To me looking left to see a map is just not as easy at glancing down so I think its still a very nice feature to have. I use an HUD for speed.
     
    #14 cbcdesign, Jan 6, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  15. Tell

    Tell Full Member

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    At 20:57 in the Ateca that's the 3D building projection so it's a Discover Pro/ Plus unit in that one.

    On the latter I don't think there is enough screen to show you the map plus the next turn screen as you get at the minute although you could use the whole left panel on the main screen if it resolves it there, although that wasn't shown on the full screen view of the digital dash panel. What we dont really know is what screens it really shows. As said I'd be happy with the digital screen but showing the next turn in the centre then if you want more information glance across. Generally the two tally but sometimes the next turn screen doesn't show the lane to be in whilst the centre panel does.

    I think the best place to go is a VW showroom and look at it on a Tiguan to see how it's executed noting whether it's a Discover Pro or not. That's basically what I did when ordering the Plus unit since there was no chance of that being demonstrated in a Seat dealer, ditto the panoramic roof where I wanted to check how opaque the blind was. I'm planning to look at an Allspace but I think I got to wait till February for that.

    I'll look forward you to taking delivery to resolve how it actually works in the SD configuration.

    UPDATE

    Just read a Tiguan board saying the Karoq one was better. YouTube. I did see the next turn flash up. From 8:30.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=OL3wvDuCtNk
     
    #15 Tell, Jan 6, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  16. FirstDriveFR

    FirstDriveFR Test Driver FREAK

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    I hope it's like the Tiguan Active Info Display and not the T-Rocs...
     
  17. Tell

    Tell Full Member

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    We need a heads up on when one can look at it on a demonstrator on either a Leon or Ateca on the 8" screen in a showroom on the Standard unit and Plus. Hopefully not so long. But I guess finding a car with the Plus unit as a demonstrator in the UK will be tricky but at least it will resolve whether you can see the map on both the unit's front screen and the dash together and then assume the Plus does both.
     
  18. boki000

    boki000 Active Member

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    Do you think the virtual cockpit will be retrofit-able :D I have the face-lifted version and i am curios :D
     
  19. Tell

    Tell Full Member

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    Probably too early to say :).

    Based on the other post that Seat Media App is going to be available on the standard system it would suggest that a new Mib2 unit or new software is coming along, later to enable the wifi chip that's already in these units. So at the minute a bit of a mystery of how they do it for the base model and whether on full map it closes the centre screen down as on VWs.

    I note these people have a mib2 high kit for the Golf.

    http://www.mmirepair.com/en/blogs/nieuws/vw-golf-vii-virtual-instrument-cluster-retrofit/

    There might be an SSP training PDF on the VAG site for Seat that covers this, you never know if you invest £8 an hour to log on. The Audi one you can find on the net. Depends whether there is other material for the Ateca now other than SSP 163 and 165.

    Site for workshop manuals, SSPs, decode of car build component from Vin (later free from elsewhere)

    http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=438077
     
    #19 Tell, Jan 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
  20. cbcdesign

    cbcdesign Active Member

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