Hey Mike. Dont you have enough race cars to drive? 
Thats actually the second enquiry I have had since Saturday. Still trying to decide what to do next year so will keep you posted. As a championship winner, it might be timely to sell the car and get the single seater I have been thinking about for a while. PM me with a suggestion of fees and in the meantime I will try and work some figs out also.
Thats actually the second enquiry I have had since Saturday. Still trying to decide what to do next year so will keep you posted. As a championship winner, it might be timely to sell the car and get the single seater I have been thinking about for a while. PM me with a suggestion of fees and in the meantime I will try and work some figs out also.pascal77uk
Guest
Hey Rob.
To be honest yea LOL.
But i do like sprinting and the hills. Its where i stated off years ago and will hopfully end up in years to come.
I have no idea how much seats go for on the hills but i will have a think and make a few calls. You probably have more idea than me so let me know your thoughts and we can go from there.
But as you say these best time to sell a car is when its winning, or before you blow it up LOL. Are you still looking for a F3 chassis. Ive done some single seater stuff and i like it.
Cheers Mike
To be honest yea LOL.
But i do like sprinting and the hills. Its where i stated off years ago and will hopfully end up in years to come.
I have no idea how much seats go for on the hills but i will have a think and make a few calls. You probably have more idea than me so let me know your thoughts and we can go from there.
But as you say these best time to sell a car is when its winning, or before you blow it up LOL. Are you still looking for a F3 chassis. Ive done some single seater stuff and i like it.
Cheers Mike
I do like the idea of an old Ralt RT, but the newer purpose built cars from the likes of Force, DJ, OMS and Jedi are very appealing also (Force and DJ being quite close to where I live)
Force
DJ Firehawk
OMS
Jedi
An aside - another nice exhaust manifold, this time from a vauxhall tourer
Force
DJ Firehawk
OMS
Jedi
An aside - another nice exhaust manifold, this time from a vauxhall tourer
Wow, championship winner already. Has the season finished?
I'm surprised that this thread makes no mention at all of the engine eligibilty problems you've had this year. I'm sure people would be interested.
Double driving has it's tyre warming plusses definitely, but the downside is the risk of being beaten in your own car! I'll never forget the day Jon Crut did this at Curborough with the 'thing'-equipped Mk2.
I'm surprised that this thread makes no mention at all of the engine eligibilty problems you've had this year. I'm sure people would be interested.
Double driving has it's tyre warming plusses definitely, but the downside is the risk of being beaten in your own car! I'll never forget the day Jon Crut did this at Curborough with the 'thing'-equipped Mk2.
Hi Chris
I wondered how long it would be till you popped up.
There are still 2 rounds to go but my chances of taking the championship are very good. Your a numbers man - check it out
What engine eligibility issues are you talking about?
Best wishes
Rob
I wondered how long it would be till you popped up.
There are still 2 rounds to go but my chances of taking the championship are very good. Your a numbers man - check it out
What engine eligibility issues are you talking about?
Best wishes
Rob
Hi Rob, well indeed, I thought you were counting your chickens a bit early about a championship winning car - context duly clarified!
The engine eligibilty issues? Your engine was stated as "99% illegal" back in April 2010 by the Chester & Liverpool Sprint Championship Coordinator, Ron Hunt, but that it required an "official protest from another competitor" to bring the matter to a head. A fairly adverse situation by any measure, and yet no measure of this anywhere on this thread.
As you know, to compete in Modified Production, the engine block must be original, not out of a Corrado / Passat (9A), or Audi 80 (6A) (or, but I doubt, elsewhere). Hunt confirmed you admitted to the MSA Eligibility Scrutineer on April 24 that the engine wasn't from a Mk2 Seat Ibiza, and reported that you cited Mike Callaghan's rallycross engine expertise and lack of UK sprinting insight as mitigation. Categorically not his responsibility. "My car is totally legal, always is" - you say?
Hunt's statements appear to convey a message that your car is at least irregular and likely not operating within the rules.
As ever, the devil is in the detail, and none of the tallblock ABF, 2E or AGG Mk2 Ibiza production 2 litre engines easily facilitate the shortblock crank/rod angle you've used & characteristics resulting therefrom. They all originally have 16mm of cast iron in extra block height, and hence have a clear weight (+ by inference, performance) & ITB trumpet-packaging disadvantage to the engine you've used.
I think this is all highly relevant to this thread - don't you?
The engine eligibilty issues? Your engine was stated as "99% illegal" back in April 2010 by the Chester & Liverpool Sprint Championship Coordinator, Ron Hunt, but that it required an "official protest from another competitor" to bring the matter to a head. A fairly adverse situation by any measure, and yet no measure of this anywhere on this thread.
As you know, to compete in Modified Production, the engine block must be original, not out of a Corrado / Passat (9A), or Audi 80 (6A) (or, but I doubt, elsewhere). Hunt confirmed you admitted to the MSA Eligibility Scrutineer on April 24 that the engine wasn't from a Mk2 Seat Ibiza, and reported that you cited Mike Callaghan's rallycross engine expertise and lack of UK sprinting insight as mitigation. Categorically not his responsibility. "My car is totally legal, always is" - you say?
Hunt's statements appear to convey a message that your car is at least irregular and likely not operating within the rules.
As ever, the devil is in the detail, and none of the tallblock ABF, 2E or AGG Mk2 Ibiza production 2 litre engines easily facilitate the shortblock crank/rod angle you've used & characteristics resulting therefrom. They all originally have 16mm of cast iron in extra block height, and hence have a clear weight (+ by inference, performance) & ITB trumpet-packaging disadvantage to the engine you've used.
I think this is all highly relevant to this thread - don't you?
Hi Chris.
How would you know any of this unless you were the person doing the protesting?
Despite 'the protestors' efforts, club officials, the championship co-ordinator, the MSA, and my fellow competitors, all have no issues whatsoever with the eligibility of my car.
Infact the protests have become a bit of a running joke up here; that this chap, who doesn't even race, has tried to protest my car. I have been told that 'the protestor' has been told 'where to go' by several of them. Some of them think he's a bit of a **** to be honest. Which made me chuckle I have to say.
My car is 100% legal for racing in the championship and category in which it is entered.
As 'the protestor' has been told, if they wish to officially protest my car, the process is clearly outlined in the MSA Blue Book.
If you wish to do this, be my guest.
How would you know any of this unless you were the person doing the protesting?
Despite 'the protestors' efforts, club officials, the championship co-ordinator, the MSA, and my fellow competitors, all have no issues whatsoever with the eligibility of my car.
Infact the protests have become a bit of a running joke up here; that this chap, who doesn't even race, has tried to protest my car. I have been told that 'the protestor' has been told 'where to go' by several of them. Some of them think he's a bit of a **** to be honest. Which made me chuckle I have to say.
My car is 100% legal for racing in the championship and category in which it is entered.
As 'the protestor' has been told, if they wish to officially protest my car, the process is clearly outlined in the MSA Blue Book.
If you wish to do this, be my guest.
Hi Rob, there haven't been any protests - an eligibilty query maybe? Anyway, the sequence of events here is important - this is all back in April at the start of the season. Call people names by all means, but it's nothing to do with the facts and events we're discussing.
I know about it, because I spoke to Ron Hunt as a member of the public. I noted the glaring irony of your well-documented zero-tolerance, anti-cheating stance, & scorn poured on friends/contacts using/proposing to use 'cheater blocks', or otherwise (in your eyes) bending the rules to their advantage. Further, I noted it didn't appear to worry you when strong evidence suggested this very problem may apply to yourself. Double standards?
Hunt appeared surprised and quite embarassed to have a marque expert unearth a car as being not what he thought it was, particularly one which had been participating in his well-regarded championship since 2007.
He was absolutely crystal clear that a car competing in Mod Prod needed to have an original production engine block, so yours needs to be from a Mk2 Seat Ibiza, in order to confirm with the 'externally identifiable' MSA Blue Book rule. So you need to be running an ADL, 2E, AGG or ABF block - and you've admitted to the MSA scrutineer that you aren't running any of those blocks.
Your engine block code has always been shrouded in secrecy, used now for how many seasons? Five? Or eight if you count the two previous blocks, the first one 100% a BRM 180 Passat 9A and the second believed the same as current (assumed 9A/6A). And secrecy for what reason? All it takes is a quick bit of elimination to work out that a short block 2 litre block isn't one of the above Ibiza engines. There are 4 shortblock 2-litres in the world, and that's after looking in every nook and cranny, talking to people who know this stuff: 9A, 6A, ACE, and AAL - none were fitted to a Mk2 Ibiza.
As a result, Hunt confirmed "I think he accepts he's going to be in Sports Libre next weekend" at Anglesey, losing all prior class awards / championship points altering to suit. You would compete, albeit on a losing wicket, with the Radicals, and would also have to fit a 6- point harness to comply with Sports Libre class rules.
As you've said previously, sprinting and hillcliming is a very precise sport, the runs are short and the need for absolute adherence to the rules is paramount for fair competition. In your words, "Time is hard to come by, it has to be earned. Dyed-in-the-wool racers know this. Pretenders don't. There's always folk out there who try and take the micky unfortunately." The timing of this statement was poor to say the least, as the MSA Eligibilty Scrutineer, Chris Mansley, was (unbeknown to you) waiting to quiz you the following day at Aintree.
Now what happened after this was that the Scrutineer gave this matter very careful consideration, and decided on balance not to reclassify you unless he received an official protest from a competitor. This is confirmed in this note I received from Ron Hunt:
So even though they were about to move you a class, and decided proper process was the only way to deal with it, you still say your car is 100% legal, with the same engine block in it? This is nigh-on impossible.
Or have you possibly come to an unofficial agreement with the officials and competitors-in-the-know to let it slide, knowing that it's not exactly what it should be, but in the interests of supporting Club competition, and saving potential embrassment for all, the organisers included, they're prepared to let it go? Perhaps just for this year?
Do all of your Division 2 competitors know transparently about this issue so that they can make an informed decision about whether it requires their attention? I'm virtually sure they don't.
I spoke to one of your previous competitors last night who agreed you've got to be as close to the rules as possible to be competitive, but definitely, unquestionably not over them - which on the basis of the MSA Scrutineers findings and your admittance about the engine, you appear to be. There are also various in the know in non-competing Club circles, who also take a very dim view of this, and you can guess whom this may include.
There have been some quite interesting developments - people would be interested to read this to contextualise the thread, particularly as you are always the one backing openness, free speech and so forth.
Last edited:
What a vivid imagination you have. So many assumptions it is laughable.
If there was any basis for my car being outside the rules, I would not have competed all year in class 3B. I wonder what others know that you dont? Ever consider that infact you are wrong? Maybe the scrutineers left me where I was because my car was completely legal?
You have had the opportunity to make an official protest, where the engine would be removed from the car for a proper inspection, and have declined to do so. This tells me that you are uncertain about your argument.
As I have said previously, my car is 100% legal for the class and championship. And you have absolutely no concrete evidence to the contrary.
Edit - I have taken copies of these posts and will be passing them on to Liverpool MC and the MSA tonight. You can expect a note from them directly.
If there was any basis for my car being outside the rules, I would not have competed all year in class 3B. I wonder what others know that you dont? Ever consider that infact you are wrong? Maybe the scrutineers left me where I was because my car was completely legal?
You have had the opportunity to make an official protest, where the engine would be removed from the car for a proper inspection, and have declined to do so. This tells me that you are uncertain about your argument.
As I have said previously, my car is 100% legal for the class and championship. And you have absolutely no concrete evidence to the contrary.
Edit - I have taken copies of these posts and will be passing them on to Liverpool MC and the MSA tonight. You can expect a note from them directly.
Last edited:
I don't think you're being fair by suggesting I have a vivid imagination - and there aren't many (if any) assumptions of any magnitude at all.
From the above, it would be impossible to create the level of detail outlined, and if statements made as fact were untrue, you'd potentially have a libel case. Be assured it has been written factually, carefully and is based on real events, and real dialogue. That being the case, please flag any specific items which you believe to be incorrect, and I will address them
Two simple tests prove in my opinion your engine cannot be from a Mk2 Ibiza:
Therefore it would have to be an ADL but the ADL isn't a 2-litre block. Ergo, it isn't from a Mk2 Ibiza. I am therefore not at all uncertain about it. This corresponds with the statements by the Scrutineer and yourself in the earlier posts
From the above, it would be impossible to create the level of detail outlined, and if statements made as fact were untrue, you'd potentially have a libel case. Be assured it has been written factually, carefully and is based on real events, and real dialogue. That being the case, please flag any specific items which you believe to be incorrect, and I will address them
Two simple tests prove in my opinion your engine cannot be from a Mk2 Ibiza:
- Is it a tallblock? No (confirmed by you): ABF, 2E and AGG rejected, ADL possible
- Does it have a crank sensor or crank sensor drilling? No (confirmed by you): ABF & AGG rejected, 2E & ADL possible
Therefore it would have to be an ADL but the ADL isn't a 2-litre block. Ergo, it isn't from a Mk2 Ibiza. I am therefore not at all uncertain about it. This corresponds with the statements by the Scrutineer and yourself in the earlier posts
This discussion is over and you need to carefully consider what you are saying. All you have said is noted.
If you wish to take this further, you need to put your money where your mouth is and make an official protest to the MSA.
Its put up or shut up time.
If you wish to take this further, you need to put your money where your mouth is and make an official protest to the MSA.
Its put up or shut up time.
motorhead
Guest
Chris, for someone who been desperately trying to research engine blocks for over 12 months (for no other reason than to discredit Rob), you are so far off the mark that you should be embarrassed, you’ve seen the engine, if you had any real knowledge about the VAG range of engines, you wouldn’t have added any comment on this thread.
If you’d asked at any point in the past when we were all been at Curborough, I could have pointed out the differences in the VAG range of blocks, your guesses are more in line with those of a YTS trainee at a Ford garage, or just someone who is bitter, twisted and clutching at straws
Bow out not before you embarrass yourself further, you forget that you can’t sensor and edit other peoples posts on this forum.
If you’d asked at any point in the past when we were all been at Curborough, I could have pointed out the differences in the VAG range of blocks, your guesses are more in line with those of a YTS trainee at a Ford garage, or just someone who is bitter, twisted and clutching at straws
Bow out not before you embarrass yourself further, you forget that you can’t sensor and edit other peoples posts on this forum.
Openess by Rob as to his block would clear up this argument and show that he is within the rules, although I do see that he is having fun taking Chris for a little goose chase.. 1.8 ADL bored to 2.0 would sit him perfectly well within the rules would it not?
Yes, correct, the only short block option, and this block will go to 84mm bore + overbore, same as the rest, so plenty of room to do loads with it.M1KEH said:
OT, but amazingly, the Seat Ibiza kit car is only FIA homolgated with the ADL block, a block people think is pap! It was created in 1995, so before the ABF was introduced, and for one reason or another - 6kgs on block weight saved to an ABF and 16mm lower deck height for crank/rod angle I'd wager - they stuck with the ADL. They never touched the ABF!
Works engine builder, Lehmann in Liechtenstein, have actually just built one with 290bhp for a Crete customer, which, for a 127bhp 1.8 production engine, even with an extra 200ccs, is simply staggering! Here it is pictured in this photo montage @ 3:10
(turn sound down)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH4WhnmTUd0
- I would say that's EUR 15-20k of engine
Two simple tests prove in my opinion your engine cannot be from a Mk2 Ibiza:
- Is it a tallblock? No (confirmed by you): ABF, 2E and AGG rejected, ADL possible
- Does it have a crank sensor or crank sensor drilling? No (confirmed by you): ABF & AGG rejected, 2E & ADL possible
Therefore it would have to be an ADL but the ADL isn't a 2-litre block. Ergo, it isn't from a Mk2 Ibiza. I am therefore not at all uncertain about it. This corresponds with the statements by the Scrutineer and yourself in the earlier posts
im confused ? first you said it has to be mk2 ibiza engine? so one of the four listed ? ADL included it seems, but then because of 2 specs confirm that it has to be an ADL engine but that's NOT an ibiza engine ?
how can it have be an ADL mk2 Ibiza engine fitted to a mk2 Ibiza that's not a mk2 Ibiza engine ?
Similar threads
