Pd130 internals

[Besty-FR]

In the process of building my car up for big power! It's a 2007 seat ibiza fr, got a gtb2260vk fitted, just need nozzles fitted, calibrated etc...then it's ready for mapping.
What is the safe limit for the engine internals? I've still got standard pistons, rods, camshaft etc...I've been told the internals are quite happy at as much as 300bhp but this sounds a bit far fetched to me. The camshaft can only flow up to 270bhp but I've got wmi to install and I've been told with this installed it should be able to get more power. I want a lot of power and torque but I also don't want to put a nice big hole in my block where a rod has decided it wants out!
Cheers =)

 

[Badger]

Pistons, Rods and Crank has been tested for a solid 300bhp with uprated cam etc...

It's the torque that destroys the rods and long injection durations that melt pistons.

 

[Besty-FR]

So I should be safe at that sort of power?

 

[Dan FR]

PD150 headbolts would be a good shout, especially if pushing big boost on a 2260

 

[Besty-FR]

Yeah I've got the head bolts etc...everything is ready for big power, just don't know how big it's safe to go

 

[Besty-FR]

So if I say 300bhp & 400lbs torque, should that be fairly comfortable or is something likely to go bang?

 

[Dan FR]

How safe it is depends on the individual car and setup - there is no magic number. I've seen PD130's with 2260's let go at around the 250hp mark before now.

Where the damage comes from is forcing the power, through adding silly amounts of boost or silly amounts of fuel and injection advance to try and chase the numbers when the hardware/engine isn't safely capable. That and the type of life/mileage the engine has had, but again, there's no magic set number

It's the same with clutches. 300lb/ft is banded about as the limit on the stock clutch, but it depends entirely on the life the clutch has had and the delivery of boost/torque. I ran north of 350 lbft on a new clutch for well over a year without any slip.

If you want it to be safe, then the final numbers will be down to what the tuner can safely tune your car and setup to

 

[Besty-FR]

I'm not hell bent on chasing dyno numbers, I'd be happy with 260-270 but like I say, I'm being told 300 will be achievable without any bother, and if that's the case I don't want to limit myself to 260 if it'll do 300 quite happily lol

 

[Dan FR]

By the tuner I'm guessing?

Be weary of being sold numbers and take the end result dyno numbers with a large pinch of salt. Seen a number of fairly new tuners claiming huge numbers - the higher number claims always bring in a sale.

That being said 300hp with a 2260 and WMI on a standard head and cam should be doable without getting silly, provided the rest of your supporting mods (intake, exhaust, intercooler and pipework) will support it. Wouldn't say it's without any bothers as you'll still be running north of 2 bar of boost I imagine

Speaking of which, have you discussed with your tuner whether a 4 bar map sensor is needed? I would really recommend it even when approaching 3 bar absolute pressure, never mind exceeding it

 

[Besty-FR]

Yeah being done by the tuner, I'm not entirely sure who I'm getting it mapped by, I'm torn between 2 mappers, one of which I'm a bit skeptical of, 4 bar sensor already fitted. My set up is:

S2000 intake
Airtec intercooler with darkside hard pipe kit
4 bar map sensor
Gtb2260vk hybrid from XMan with tubular manifold
2.5" Milltek exhaust
+80% firad injectors
Audi TT brake set up
Pd150 head bolts
Wmi but that's not fitted yet

I think that's it off the top of my head

 

[Dan FR]

Guessing the map has been adjusted for 4 bar sensor if the car is in use?

Well I tell you who won't be mapping it..... Darkside. They're awful funny about mapping cars with any hardware that they haven't supplied, specifically the turbo/manifold setup.

Personally the only person I would recommend in your region is Bobby Singh, the man is a genius and has mapped many a big turbo PD

 

[Besty-FR]

Yeah it's been adjusted for a 4 bar map sensor, ok cheers I'll look him up, I was torn between narco and derv tech but I'm a little skeptical of them, I used them before with no problems but what they claim is very questionable.
Yeah I already asked darkside, they said they wouldn't map it and were very rude about it too, so I don't use them for anything now, massively over priced and rude.

 

[R3k1355]

They are dicks about doing that, very odd.

Have you thought about a water/meth setup, might help with intake temps and keeping the pistons from melting during high boost/long injection.

 

[Besty-FR]

Yeah I have a water meth set up from devilsown, just not hooked up yet

 

[cocadave]

Yeah it's been adjusted for a 4 bar map sensor, ok cheers I'll look him up, I was torn between narco and derv tech but I'm a little skeptical of them, I used them before with no problems but what they claim is very questionable.
Yeah I already asked darkside, they said they wouldn't map it and were very rude about it too, so I don't use them for anything now, massively over priced and rude.

Get yourself to Narco! He seriously knows his stuff, the guy's a genius when tuning these, I have personally had dealings with all 3 of the above mentioned tuners and put a lot of money towards darkside myself but this was before the other 2 existed so I am not too bitter honest... LOL

Me and my mate got back from Narco last night after them tuning my mates Bora with an X-manGT1760 hybrid, they also tweaked my map which I have had for nearly 2 years and thumbs up to DS as I have never had a problem even though it was a little smoky on build up but that has eased a little, not too much but there is now more noticeable power.

Just for info mine pulled 258 on the rollers when it was mapped nearly 2 years ago, at the time I was a little disappointed with the RR figure but not at all with performance, a massive increase on the 220 I had with the previously fitted hybrid GT1749, Anyway, as we set off back home we got on the M-way and both gave it the beans!! he was off like 10 men!!!

Won't bore you with the ins and outs but a long story short he has almost the same power as me ( I couldn't overtake him ever all the way to 130) MODS listed below for both cars...

The supposed power claims that I myself were VERY VERY sceptical about these tuners making on stock nozzles IS achievable and I have seen proof to back it up, Adam (Narco) gave me the keys to his Golf PD150 with GT2265 and told me to see what I thought of it (stock nozzles) it was fast!! He claimed it made 272 or 275 (cant remember) but whatever he claims is correct.

Mine= GTB2260 with 3" DP to 2.5"Milteck, S3 Cooler, DS pipe kit, Firad 80% injectors, S2000 filter
His= GT1760 Hybrid from X-man, DS cooler and pipe kit, stock nozzles, 2.5"Milteck.

My reasoning for my car being slightly faster is down to me carrying a lot of extra weight compared to my mate who has absolutely nothing extra in his car where as I have subs, amps tool boxes and a load of other ****.

I am not going to slag Derv Tech off but I am going back to Narco when I get my head polished and the race cam for them to tune up, I advise you to do the same...

So there you have my experience.

 

[Besty-FR]

Wow that's awesome! Thanks for the info, was good to read someone that's had experience with the tuners I was considering I'm really eager to get mine going! I previously had standard turbo running 165bhp, then set my car up for big power and bought a hybrid at the beginning of the year, when it was fitted it wouldn't run right and messed about for 5 months with it with different maps, doing logs and tweaks etc...until everyone agreed the turbo was faulty, got my gtb2260 was in the process of fitting it and got taken to hospital, now lost my licence for a year due to medical reasons so I'm really p****d off about that! So I just want it ready for when I'm back on the road, no more problems, and getting recommendations is great so I know who I can rely on! So I can't wait to be running 250+, I went in my mates a3 the other day with a ko4 running 230bhp and it felt so damn slow! Anyway lol thanks for the write up dude, much appreciated!

 

[cocadave]

Glad I could be of help, hopefully you're on the mend and you'll be back behind the wheel of a monster soon!!

 

[Bregt14]

I have quite same setup ( with Dbillas camshaft) 270hp and 500nm torque. I have driven 301000km allready. Now they are making me a flowed head with bigger valves and bigger ports.
300hp is on his way.

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