Pd130 replaced head gasket and skimmed head

[turbod]

Morning people, As some of you know I recently rebuilt my pd and it has been running fine no probs with temperature or running, i had the head skimmed replaced the water pump and it hasn't missed a beat, however when the car is hot the coolant level in the header tank drops well below minimum and the top rad hose is rock hard, when I take the expansion cap off the level returns back to exactly the same place .... I noticed that there was no coolant flowing into the header tank via the top pipe on tickover unless you rev the engine, I have also observed that the bottom rad pipe is stone cold ? Does this sound like a dodgy thermostat ? Or an airlock ? Or worse
As always any thoughts are appreciated

 

[turbod]

Morning people, As some of you know I recently rebuilt my pd and it has been running fine no probs with temperature or running, i had the head skimmed replaced the water pump and it hasn't missed a beat, however when the car is hot the coolant level in the header tank drops well below minimum and the top rad hose is rock hard, when I take the expansion cap off the level returns back to exactly the same place .... I noticed that there was no coolant flowing into the header tank via the top pipe on tickover unless you rev the engine, I have also observed that the bottom rad pipe is stone cold ? Does this sound like a dodgy thermostat ? Or an airlock ? Or worse
As always any thoughts are appreciated

Update**** I have just bought a thermostat will update in a bit with pics

 

[R3k1355]

Blocked or partially blocked rad could be a cause as well.

 

[turbod]

Blocked or partially blocked rad could be a cause as well.

The stat didn't fix it so back to bits tonight

 

[RUM4MO]

I sorry but reading about this exact issue on another VAG forum, same engine, the suggestion was to get who ever sorted out this engine to sort it out properly as there is still gas leakage into the cooling system.

Please try to prove me wrong though, I'd rather you did!

Edit:- the other engine that I was talking about started with "my heater runs cold after driving for a time", then developed into "I've had this work done on my engine" the answer was eventually after all other avenues were explored, "take it back"!

 

[turbod]

I sorry but reading about this exact issue on another VAG forum, same engine, the suggestion was to get who ever sorted out this engine to sort it out properly as there is still gas leakage into the cooling system

Please try to prove me wrong though, I'd rather you did!

Edit:- the other engine that I was talking about started with "my heater runs cold after driving for a time", then developed into "I've had this work done on my engine" the answer was eventually after all other avenues were explored, "take it back"!

Going to take stat out and top and bottom hoses off and stick hosepipe through the rad shortly .... I guess it is a crap stat though as when you squeeze the bottom hose you can hear water moving in the top hose .... I'm going to remove the stat all together and see what happens .... PS the top side of the hoses are rock hard while the bottom one is soft and cold fnar ha oh and the heaters are hot enough to melt your face off so I guess thermostat

 

[R3k1355]

No you'll get all sorts of weirdness with hard hoses and bad heat distribution from air in the cooling system.

If the air is leaking out from the combustion chamber the only way to sort it is to have the engine apart again and fix the problem properly.
Either the head wasn't skimmed properly, the block wasn't clean/level or the head is cracked.

 

[turbod]

Thermostat is fine so going to try putting another 1/4 turn on the head bolts.... The head was skimmed properly but the block was quite corroded

 

[R3k1355]

Don't tighten the head bolts any more than the book Torque.

 

[turbod]

Don't tighten the head bolts any more than the book Torque.

I have replaced the bolts with arl and read up about several other people who've had the exact same problems also a reccomendation from jabba sport that this can solve this issue.... I have nothing else to lose the engine is no good like this mate and I ain't stripping the head again

 

[alexh]

I've lost count of the number of times I've taken that approach and regretted it, often damaging things in the process, then ended up taking everything apart again anyway in the end.

I'm fitting my first helicoil this weekend to replace a stripped thread for a similar reason, though in my case it's on the exhaust manifold.

 

[turbod]

I've lost count of the number of times I've taken that approach and regretted it, often damaging things in the process, then ended up taking everything apart again anyway in the end.

I'm fitting my first helicoil this weekend to replace a stripped thread for a similar reason, though in my case it's on the exhaust manifold.

Don't use helicoils theyrth shite .... Timeserts are miles better, they're an insert opposed to a crappy coil of wire which comes back out on the bolt. Tightened head bolts up no worries they were surprisingly loose considering they were done up to 40 nm then 60 then angle tightened with a huge breaker bar..... They were real tight .... Now found problem with the heater matrix pipes leaking

 

[turbod]

Right done about 60 miles and left it sat to cool down and opened the expansion cap while the engine was about 40 50 degrees only a small release of pressure nothing like before I tightened up the head bolts so definitely head leakage from the combustion chamber into the cooling system before..... Have found another leak on the heater matrix pipes so went to seat who don't sell the o rings so bought a pack of assorted sizes from Lidl. I'm going to leave it overnight with pressure in the water system and see what happens in the morning if it is still pressurised if not then happy days if yes pass me the matches and the petrol
Thanks for the contributions and watch this space

 

[RUM4MO]

I've read that getting these heater pipes back on without leaks is a bit of a challenge, luckily never needed to disprove/prove it.

Good luck, good to hear that nipping up the head bolts sorted the pressurisation up!

Cross wire inserts do have their place, when I worked in avionics, metal castings were normally aluminium and all holes had cross wire inserts which if damaged were ripped out and replaced with new ones. I'd think correctly spec'd and with a deep enough hole, they should also work in cast iron blocks. On heavy aluminium assemblies that have fastening holes that are used/reused frequently to fit different jigs on for instance, I've always found that you can't beat proper threaded inserts, Keencert were my inserts of choice.

Edit:- a frequent people make when using cross wire inserts is to use too short an insert, or to fail to remove the fitting tang at the end cause issues guarantee early failure.

 

[R3k1355]

Did you re-use the old head bolts or use a new set?
Do/did they need checking after the first run to ensure they were still at Torque?

 

[turbod]

Did you re-use the old head bolts or use a new set?
Do/did they need checking after the first run to ensure they were still at Torque?

I have done 1000 miles on a freshly skimmed head you had to completely strip the head to get it skimmed as the valves and injectors sit proud and every naffing bolt has to be replaced as they are all stretch .... Rocker bolts injectors and seals, cam bolts
The biggest concern was the state of the top face of the block which was eroded because of head lift, so I cleaned it up with scotchbrite pad as best as possible re fitted the head with arl150 bolts and torqued it up to manufacturers spec. It still pressurised the system so looked at various websites and this has worked for others just tighten bolts 1/4 of a turn on a cold engine in the correct sequence .... Time will tell if this is going to be a long term solution
P.s. the head bolts were still at torque then 1/4 of a turn on em mate.
The manufacturer does not stipulate re torquing once angle tightening stage, I know other heads do require this after say 500 miles

 

[turbod]

I've read that getting these heater pipes back on without leaks is a bit of a challenge, luckily never needed to disprove/prove it.

Good luck, good to hear that nipping up the head bolts sorted the pressurisation up!

Cross wire inserts do have their place, when I worked in avionics, metal castings were normally aluminium and all holes had cross wire inserts which if damaged were ripped out and replaced with new ones. I'd think correctly spec'd and with a deep enough hole, they should also work in cast iron blocks. On heavy aluminium assemblies that have fastening holes that are used/reused frequently to fit different jigs on for instance, I've always found that you can't beat proper threaded inserts, Keencert were my inserts of choice.

Edit:- a frequent people make when using cross wire inserts is to use too short an insert, or to fail to remove the fitting tang at the end cause issues guarantee early failure.

Just been out and no pressure in the header tank so far ..... But if it does it again it is going to need a new engine for sure.
Can anyone tell me if their bottom rad hose Even gets hot ever ? Mine doesn't.
Heater matrix seals next today then flush coolant AGAIN and a third second hand header tank from the scrap yard
As for helicoils I agree with you, if fitted correctly they can work but for me timeserts are the most reliable (motorcycle cylinder heads blind holes )

 

[R3k1355]

Fingers crossed it stays sealed, be a shame to dump the engine after putting so much work in.

 

[turbod]

Heater matrix seals leaking now I took them to bits and replaced o rings bollox

 

[turbod]

Ok guys the system is still pressurised, I have fitted a new manifold onto the heater matrix from a fabia and modified the coolant pipes to suit as the aluminium pipes were a joke to try to seal..... I'm starting to think that the egr cooler has an internal crack pressurising the coolant .... I'm going to take the egr cooler off when I get a chance and plug it in to my compressor then chuck it into a bucket of water to see if any air bubbles start to show
Not ideal today having to chew on with an ageing car as I'm moving house today .... These things are sent to try us eh ? Coolant level not dropping but massive amount of pressure in the system and a strange noise not heard before like a leaking exhaust .....hmmm