It isn't as simple as comparing like for like on list price though, so many contributing factors when it comes to monthly payments on a PCP deal, one of the main factors would be the GMFV which is dictated by the residual values, which I suspect are higher on the A3 than on the Leon.
Petrol or diesel Leon SC
- Thread starter Psyman79
- Start date
It isn't as simple as comparing like for like on list price though, so many contributing factors when it comes to monthly payments on a PCP deal, one of the main factors would be the GMFV which is dictated by the residual values, which I suspect are higher on the A3 than on the Leon.
The comparison is based on different spec vehicles as my priorities and requirements have changed.
Leon i was prepared to buy was coming in at £23990, thats for a 2.0 diesel(150) FR DSG with titanium pack and convenience pack and metallic paint.
Audi has come in at £25680 for a 1.4 petrol (140) TFSI S-Line manual with comfort pack with park system plus with nav
Audi are giving me £2000 equity for my car compared to nothing from Seat. Plus the residual value of the Audi is £2500 more.
Not really a fair comparison as the DSG is £1500 but i've bombarded myself with too many figures over the last week and my brain hurts
Si.
Leon i was prepared to buy was coming in at £23990, thats for a 2.0 diesel(150) FR DSG with titanium pack and convenience pack and metallic paint.
Audi has come in at £25680 for a 1.4 petrol (140) TFSI S-Line manual with comfort pack with park system plus with nav
Audi are giving me £2000 equity for my car compared to nothing from Seat. Plus the residual value of the Audi is £2500 more.
Not really a fair comparison as the DSG is £1500 but i've bombarded myself with too many figures over the last week and my brain hurts
Si.
Just looked on my brokers site.
Seat Leon 1.4 TSi SC FR £17344 Less £1000 for PCP contribution = £16344. 4.9% Seat PCP. Technology pack is £535 extra since they are only free on retail purchases.
VW Golf 1.4 TSi GT £20065. 6.3% VW PCP. Any Extras on top.
Audi A3 1.4 TSi S-Line £21170. 6.4% Audi PCP. Any extras on top.
So how the Audio works out cheaper is way beyond my maths capability.
Seat Leon 1.4 TSi SC FR £17344 Less £1000 for PCP contribution = £16344. 4.9% Seat PCP. Technology pack is £535 extra since they are only free on retail purchases.
VW Golf 1.4 TSi GT £20065. 6.3% VW PCP. Any Extras on top.
Audi A3 1.4 TSi S-Line £21170. 6.4% Audi PCP. Any extras on top.
So how the Audio works out cheaper is way beyond my maths capability.
That wasn't the model he was comparing the Audi with though or am I missing something?
I did state that it was the FR 2.0 diesel (150) with DSG i was looking to buy.
I haven't used a broker, just went direct to Seat/Audi hence higher price.
All figures i've quoted are what i've been working to and i appreciated that its not a very good comparison as they're different engines with different gearboxes.
This is only really relevant in the deal i've got as part ex and residual values need to be taken into account.
Si
I haven't used a broker, just went direct to Seat/Audi hence higher price.
All figures i've quoted are what i've been working to and i appreciated that its not a very good comparison as they're different engines with different gearboxes.
This is only really relevant in the deal i've got as part ex and residual values need to be taken into account.
Si
Correct.
But my comparison is for 3 cars with the same engine and gearbox.
There will be spec differences, I know there were when I bought my Leon but the £5000 extra for a Golf that was mechanically identical was a non starter especially when the Leon had all the kit I wanted.
Everybody is different and we all have to make our own decisions.
But buying a manual petrol A3 because its cheaper than an auto diesel Leon does not make sense because you are not comparing like for like cars. The Audi A3 S-Line 150 TDi with DSG at my brokers is £24647 wheras the Leon SC FR 150 TDI DSG is £19249 after the PCP contribution. That is over £5000 less and with the higher % on the Audi PCP I just cannot see how the Audi is cheaper.
The decision made by Psyman79 appears to have been based on the fact that he got a manual A3 petrol cheaper than he could get an auto Leon Diesel. If you take off the £2000 equity given to Psyman79 by Audi from my brokers price its £19170 for the manual A3, £79 less than my brokers price for the auto Leon Diesel thus Psyman79 appears to be correct.
But £19170 is still £2826 more than the price for a manual Leon SC TSi 140. And the Audi has a higher PCP rate.
Even with the £2500 additional residual for the Audi its still £326 dearer.
Close but not cheaper.
Skidpan,
I appreciate that what i've done could be seen as a bit odd, i've changed my mind based on the decision i was trying to reach at the start of this thread and therefore abandoned all of the helpful things people have said in this discussion.
To be perfectly honest, i hadn't considered buying an Audi and sadly, the service i received at the Seat dealer over the weekend resulted in me going to the Audi dealer for a wee look.
I've compromised on the the DSG as i decided it wasn't really as important to me as first thought, however i was working to a budget and with the deal i've got on the Audi i'll be paying £2 more a month on my pcp deal than the Leon.
I understand that if i'd stuck with the diesel engine and DSG but put it in the Audi i would've been about £4000 more than the equivilant Leon.
I'm happy with the decision i've made and thank you all for your input and advice.
Kind regards,
Si
I appreciate that what i've done could be seen as a bit odd, i've changed my mind based on the decision i was trying to reach at the start of this thread and therefore abandoned all of the helpful things people have said in this discussion.
To be perfectly honest, i hadn't considered buying an Audi and sadly, the service i received at the Seat dealer over the weekend resulted in me going to the Audi dealer for a wee look.
I've compromised on the the DSG as i decided it wasn't really as important to me as first thought, however i was working to a budget and with the deal i've got on the Audi i'll be paying £2 more a month on my pcp deal than the Leon.
I understand that if i'd stuck with the diesel engine and DSG but put it in the Audi i would've been about £4000 more than the equivilant Leon.
I'm happy with the decision i've made and thank you all for your input and advice.
Kind regards,
Si
I'm well aware that your comparison was for same engine and drive train, Psymon79's comparison was not, and that is the point I was making.
We received very poor service at the 2 local Seat dealer's we tried, neither could understand the basic concept of what we meant when we said it was too expensive. Salesman would walk off and pretend to talk to their boss and come back with an identical price and proudly ask "how does that look". Found it hard not to say "it looks exactly the fekin same". One even rang back and still could not understand why his inability to improve the offer looked like preventing me from buying.
VW dealer was even worse, he could not even be bothered to show me a car, fortunately another member of staff was moving the demo and I hijacked him.
That is why I went to a broker. Got a price that I was satisfied with in 30 minutes (beat local dealers by £1800) and he provided a good service up to the point of collection. Unfortunately he also turned out to be a bit of a muppet but I got compensation for the poor service from Seat.
By all accounts Seat make what appears to be a great car at a great price but the dealers don't appear to be a competent lot. Just hope they are better when it needs a service.
I know what you mean, our Seat guy seemed helpful until he found out i'd been to Audi, then he just seemed a bit sulky. Wasn't able to actually provide a test car for me to drive as his boss had gone home early in it for the weekend (even though i'd booked a drive) Not being able to offer me anything for my car was the final straw.
Its a shame really as i really like the Leon SC but if thats the way they want to start a 3 year relationship with a customer then so be it.
Perhaps by the time i'm looking for another car ther'll be a 4wd Cupra R and i can go silly again
Si.
Its a shame really as i really like the Leon SC but if thats the way they want to start a 3 year relationship with a customer then so be it.
Perhaps by the time i'm looking for another car ther'll be a 4wd Cupra R and i can go silly again
Si.
My experience is the same as yours. I went to my local who did me a good deal on my Ibiza around 12 months ago. They wouldn't budge much on purchase price and couldn't understand my issue wasn't with the monthly PCP price, but the overall purchase price.
So I went to what sounds to be the same broker as you.
The car dealer were excellent on the phone, however since paying the deposit and ordering my new Leon I haven't heard a peep. Not even an email/letter confirming the proposed purchase price and skeleton PCP, despite me emailing and requesting it. Slightly concerning.
I often hear this from people, however when quoting residual values it would be best to quantify them as a percentage of leftover value of the purchase/invoice price.
Otherwise of course a more expensive car is going to be worth more than a cheaper one in 3 years time, you paid more for it to begin with!
I've re-written this post lots of times, and it would probably just end up in a continuous debate
I'm just going to say that I doubt the petrol Leon is going to lose an additional £2000 on top of whatever the diesel Leon does.
The only way in theory a diesel Leon PCP should be cheaper is if the extra £2000 it costs over the petrol is fully retained in the GFV.
I often hear people saying how diesels retain more value, but I've never seen any percentages on how much of the original purchase price is retained, and its only that figure which is important. Yes second-hand diesels cost more to buy than second-hand petrols, but the diesels cost more to buy when they were new.
Have a read of this for some food-for-thought: http://www.british-car-auctions.co.uk/About-Us/Latest-News/25-June-2012-Diesel-values-retain-substantial-price-premium-says-BCA-but-petrol-holds-its-value-better/
All said, if you got a dealer to give you the same PCP deal on the diesel that he wanted £2000 more AND you don't even need to drive it to make any savings, then sweet deal.
I'm just going to say that I doubt the petrol Leon is going to lose an additional £2000 on top of whatever the diesel Leon does.
The only way in theory a diesel Leon PCP should be cheaper is if the extra £2000 it costs over the petrol is fully retained in the GFV.
I often hear people saying how diesels retain more value, but I've never seen any percentages on how much of the original purchase price is retained, and its only that figure which is important. Yes second-hand diesels cost more to buy than second-hand petrols, but the diesels cost more to buy when they were new.
Have a read of this for some food-for-thought: http://www.british-car-auctions.co.uk/About-Us/Latest-News/25-June-2012-Diesel-values-retain-substantial-price-premium-says-BCA-but-petrol-holds-its-value-better/
All said, if you got a dealer to give you the same PCP deal on the diesel that he wanted £2000 more AND you don't even need to drive it to make any savings, then sweet deal.
With regards to retained value its a lottery. How can you know what the market will think of your car in 3 or even 5 years time. If the DPF's on diesels give trouble no one will want them, if the cam belts on the new TSi's snap without warning no one will want them. You simply have to take a punt, make your decision and hope.
But here are a couple of examples.
My last car was a BMW 118D. I bought it new and it was £300 more expensive retail than a 118i (seems incredible but that was BMW's prices at the time). Kept it 5 years and saved more than £300 in RFL. When I bought the Seat I looked on Parkers to get a rough idea of trade in values before hitting the dealers and the 118D was valued at £600 more than the 118i. So it appeared that the 118D had not only retained the £300, it had actually doubled it. Got exactly what Parkers suggested for the car.
Wife has a Kia Ceed SW CRDi. 3 years old now and she likes the looks of the new model but its unlikely we will swap now since we always keep cars 5 years. When we bought the car it was £1000 more than the petrol version. According to Parkers it is now worth £1500 more than the petrol but that is possibly because the petrol is a thirsty slow beast and the diesel is as good as any engine on the market.
Looked at Seats in a similar way before I bought ours, it appeared from the figures the Seat diesels retain about 50% of the premium after 5 years which is probably because the TSi petrols are so good. I used that figure in my calculations to determine if petrol or diesel was the way to go. Petrol just won but after driving the 1.4 TSi it would not have mattered if it had worked out as being way more expensive because I loved it.
But here are a couple of examples.
My last car was a BMW 118D. I bought it new and it was £300 more expensive retail than a 118i (seems incredible but that was BMW's prices at the time). Kept it 5 years and saved more than £300 in RFL. When I bought the Seat I looked on Parkers to get a rough idea of trade in values before hitting the dealers and the 118D was valued at £600 more than the 118i. So it appeared that the 118D had not only retained the £300, it had actually doubled it. Got exactly what Parkers suggested for the car.
Wife has a Kia Ceed SW CRDi. 3 years old now and she likes the looks of the new model but its unlikely we will swap now since we always keep cars 5 years. When we bought the car it was £1000 more than the petrol version. According to Parkers it is now worth £1500 more than the petrol but that is possibly because the petrol is a thirsty slow beast and the diesel is as good as any engine on the market.
Looked at Seats in a similar way before I bought ours, it appeared from the figures the Seat diesels retain about 50% of the premium after 5 years which is probably because the TSi petrols are so good. I used that figure in my calculations to determine if petrol or diesel was the way to go. Petrol just won but after driving the 1.4 TSi it would not have mattered if it had worked out as being way more expensive because I loved it.
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